Who first taught that Isaiah 14 is about Satan?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
7,959
1,483
113
67
Brighton, MI
#1
Who first taught that Isaiah 14 is about Satan?

quotes:

"LUCIFER (Φωσφόρος):
By: Kaufmann Kohler
Septuagint translation of "Helel

[read "Helal"] ben Shaḥar" (= "the

brilliant one," "son of the

morning"), name of the day, or

morning, star, to whose mythical

fate that of the King of Babylon is

compared in the prophetic vision

(Isa. xiv. 12-14). It is obvious

that the prophet in attributing to

the Babylonian king boastful pride,

followed by a fall, borrowed the

idea from a popular legend

connected with the morning star;

and Gunkel ("Schöpfung und Chaos,"

pp. 132-134) is undoubtedly correct

when he holds that it represents a

Babylonian or Hebrew star-myth

similar to the Greek legend of

Phaethon. The brilliancy of the

morning star, which eclipses all

other stars, but is not seen during

the night, may easily have given

rise to a myth such as was told of

Ethana and Zu: he was led by his

pride to strive for the highest

seat among the star-gods on the

northern mountain of the gods

(comp. Ezek. xxviii. 14; Ps.

xlviii. 3 [A.V. 2]), but was hurled

down by the supreme ruler of the

Babylonian Olympus. Stars were

regarded throughout antiquity as

living celestial beings (Job

xxxviii. 7).

The familiarity of the people of

Palestine with such a myth is shown

by the legend, localized on Mount

Hermon, the northern mountain of

Palestine and possibly the original

mountain of the gods in that

country, of the fall of the angels

under the leadership of Samḥazai

(the heaven-seizer) and Azael

(Enoch, vi. 6 et seq.; see Fall of

Angels). Another legend represents

Samḥazai, because he repented of

his sin, as being suspended between

heaven and earth (like a star)

instead of being hurled down to

Sheol (see Midr. Abḳir in Yalḳ. i.

44; Raymund Martin, "Pugio Fidei,"

p. 564). The Lucifer myth was

transferred to Satan in the pre-

Christian century, as may be

learned from Vita Adæ et Evæ (12)

and Slavonic Enoch (xxix. 4, xxxi.

4), where Satan-Sataniel (Samael?)

is described as having been one of

the archangels. Because he

contrived "to make his throne

higher than the clouds over the

earth and resemble 'My power' on

high," Satan-Sataniel was hurled

down, with his hosts of angels, and

since then he has been flying in

the air continually above the abyss

(comp. Test. Patr., Benjamin, 3;

Ephes. ii. 2, vi. 12). Accordingly

Tertullian ("Contra Marrionem," v.

11, 17), Origen ("Ezekiel Opera,"

iii. 356), and others, identify

Lucifer with Satan, who also is

represented as being "cast down

from heaven" (Rev. xii. 7, 10;

comp. Luke x. 18).

Bibliography:
Cheyne, Encyc. Bibl.;
Duhm, Das Buch Jesaiah, 1892, p.

96."

https://jewishencyclopedia.com/arti

cles/10177-lucifer
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
7,959
1,483
113
67
Brighton, MI
#2
Isaiah 14:1-11
Good News Translation
The Return from Exile
14 The Lord will once again be merciful to his people Israel and choose them as his own. He will let them live in their own land again, and foreigners will come and live there with them. 2 Many nations will help the people of Israel return to the land which the Lord gave them, and there the nations will serve Israel as slaves. Those who once captured Israel will now be captured by Israel, and the people of Israel will rule over those who once oppressed them.

The King of Babylon in the World of the Dead
3 The Lord will give the people of Israel relief from their pain and suffering and from the hard work they were forced to do. 4 When he does this, they are to mock the king of Babylon and say:

“The cruel king has fallen! He will never oppress anyone again! 5 The Lord has ended the power of the evil rulers 6 who angrily oppressed the peoples and never stopped persecuting the nations they had conquered. 7 Now at last the whole world enjoys rest and peace, and everyone sings for joy. 8 The cypress trees and the cedars of Lebanon rejoice over the fallen king, because there is no one to cut them down, now that he is gone!

9 “The world of the dead is getting ready to welcome the king of Babylon. The ghosts of those who were powerful on earth are stirring about. The ghosts of kings are rising from their thrones. 10 They all call out to him, ‘Now you are as weak as we are! You are one of us! 11 You used to be honored with the music of harps, but now here you are in the world of the dead. You lie on a bed of maggots and are covered with a blanket of worms.’”

Is still about a human going to the grave.
 

Gideon300

Well-known member
Mar 18, 2021
4,980
2,904
113
#4
Isaiah 14:1-11
Good News Translation
The Return from Exile
14 The Lord will once again be merciful to his people Israel and choose them as his own. He will let them live in their own land again, and foreigners will come and live there with them. 2 Many nations will help the people of Israel return to the land which the Lord gave them, and there the nations will serve Israel as slaves. Those who once captured Israel will now be captured by Israel, and the people of Israel will rule over those who once oppressed them.

The King of Babylon in the World of the Dead
3 The Lord will give the people of Israel relief from their pain and suffering and from the hard work they were forced to do. 4 When he does this, they are to mock the king of Babylon and say:

“The cruel king has fallen! He will never oppress anyone again! 5 The Lord has ended the power of the evil rulers 6 who angrily oppressed the peoples and never stopped persecuting the nations they had conquered. 7 Now at last the whole world enjoys rest and peace, and everyone sings for joy. 8 The cypress trees and the cedars of Lebanon rejoice over the fallen king, because there is no one to cut them down, now that he is gone!

9 “The world of the dead is getting ready to welcome the king of Babylon. The ghosts of those who were powerful on earth are stirring about. The ghosts of kings are rising from their thrones. 10 They all call out to him, ‘Now you are as weak as we are! You are one of us! 11 You used to be honored with the music of harps, but now here you are in the world of the dead. You lie on a bed of maggots and are covered with a blanket of worms.’”

Is still about a human going to the grave.
I don't know. I was not taught that Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28 were about Satan. However, when I read those passages for the first time, I immediately sensed that they were describing Satan. Yes, there is the human element. However, there is much to suggest that Satan is the power behind the human thrones. He is still.
 
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,680
113
#5
Unpopular opinion is that the devil is the god of this world. Not because he wrested control of it away from God, but was allowed to be. Make of that what you will,
 
Dec 21, 2020
1,825
474
83
#6
Unpopular opinion is that the devil is the god of this world. Not because he wrested control of it away from God, but was allowed to be. Make of that what you will,
Adam was originally given dominion of the world (Gen 1:26, 28). When he sinned, that dominion was transferred to the devil (Luke 4:5-6). He still has it (2 Cor 4:4; 1 John 5:19), which explains the train-wreck status of our world. One day God will send His Son back to straighten things out. Could be soon!
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,671
13,073
113
#8
Who first taught that Isaiah 14 is about Satan?
The Holy Spirit reveals this to Christians. Do you have a problem with this interpretation? If so, dig deeper and don't listen to false teachers.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,671
13,073
113
#9
Unpopular opinion is that the devil is the god of this world.
Is there any doubt that this is so? Yes God has allowed "the prince of the power of the air" to also be "the god of this world". But Christ has also revealed to us his true nature. He is a LIAR and the FATHER OF LIES. And his sole agenda is to steal, kill, and destroy.

The real puzzle is why did God allow this fallen angel to continue to influence world events when He could have easily cast him into the Lake of Fire immediately on the day he sinned? And why would God allow this evil creature to destroy Job utterly, and to attack His children daily? God even allowed him to tempt Christ, when he should have been sent packing.
 
Oct 28, 2022
322
53
28
#10
The Holy Spirit reveals this to Christians. Do you have a problem with this interpretation? If so, dig deeper and don't listen to false teachers.
Yet the name "The Learner" is in scripture:

2Ti_3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
12,980
5,203
113
#11
I don't know. I was not taught that Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28 were about Satan. However, when I read those passages for the first time, I immediately sensed that they were describing Satan. Yes, there is the human element. However, there is much to suggest that Satan is the power behind the human thrones. He is still.
“Satan is the power behind the human thrones. He is still.”

exactly the understanding this vision is conveying

“And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭12:3, 17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Watch how Satan goes to war with them

“And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. If any man have an ear, let him hear.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭13:1, 4, 7-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the beast which rises up in satans image reflecting the dragons image on earth is made of men in power over kingdoms and nations that seven headed beast is made of eighteen rulers or “ kings” empowered by Satan

“And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition. And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭17:10-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

What your saying is spot on satan is still behind the world powers opposed to God Satan works through man just like God does that’s why we need the holy spirit in us because there’s evil spirit in the world also seeking to steal our souls
 
L

Locoponydirtman

Guest
#12
Some folks read "Animal Farm", and think its about animals and farming.
 

Clayman

Active member
May 30, 2021
270
64
28
#13
Unpopular opinion is that the devil is the god of this world. Not because he wrested control of it away from God, but was allowed to be. Make of that what you will,
Agree, Satan did nothing God did not allow him to do, and I go even further God uses Satan to accomplish His will, for example He will put Satan into power again in the last days to bring judgment upon the nations.

Even Satan testing the Lord in the wilderness, It wasnt some scheme of Satan to thwart God, as popular opinion expresses but God did it to show us both the Sons divine nature and perfect sinless nature. We would fail the test but then again we are sinners. So praise the fact God came in the flesh to conquer sin for us.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
12,980
5,203
113
#14
Who first taught that Isaiah 14 is about Satan?

quotes:

"LUCIFER (Φωσφόρος):
By: Kaufmann Kohler
Septuagint translation of "Helel

[read "Helal"] ben Shaḥar" (= "the

brilliant one," "son of the

morning"), name of the day, or

morning, star, to whose mythical

fate that of the King of Babylon is

compared in the prophetic vision

(Isa. xiv. 12-14). It is obvious

that the prophet in attributing to

the Babylonian king boastful pride,

followed by a fall, borrowed the

idea from a popular legend

connected with the morning star;

and Gunkel ("Schöpfung und Chaos,"

pp. 132-134) is undoubtedly correct

when he holds that it represents a

Babylonian or Hebrew star-myth

similar to the Greek legend of

Phaethon. The brilliancy of the

morning star, which eclipses all

other stars, but is not seen during

the night, may easily have given

rise to a myth such as was told of

Ethana and Zu: he was led by his

pride to strive for the highest

seat among the star-gods on the

northern mountain of the gods

(comp. Ezek. xxviii. 14; Ps.

xlviii. 3 [A.V. 2]), but was hurled

down by the supreme ruler of the

Babylonian Olympus. Stars were

regarded throughout antiquity as

living celestial beings (Job

xxxviii. 7).

The familiarity of the people of

Palestine with such a myth is shown

by the legend, localized on Mount

Hermon, the northern mountain of

Palestine and possibly the original

mountain of the gods in that

country, of the fall of the angels

under the leadership of Samḥazai

(the heaven-seizer) and Azael

(Enoch, vi. 6 et seq.; see Fall of

Angels). Another legend represents

Samḥazai, because he repented of

his sin, as being suspended between

heaven and earth (like a star)

instead of being hurled down to

Sheol (see Midr. Abḳir in Yalḳ. i.

44; Raymund Martin, "Pugio Fidei,"

p. 564). The Lucifer myth was

transferred to Satan in the pre-

Christian century, as may be

learned from Vita Adæ et Evæ (12)

and Slavonic Enoch (xxix. 4, xxxi.

4), where Satan-Sataniel (Samael?)

is described as having been one of

the archangels. Because he

contrived "to make his throne

higher than the clouds over the

earth and resemble 'My power' on

high," Satan-Sataniel was hurled

down, with his hosts of angels, and

since then he has been flying in

the air continually above the abyss

(comp. Test. Patr., Benjamin, 3;

Ephes. ii. 2, vi. 12). Accordingly

Tertullian ("Contra Marrionem," v.

11, 17), Origen ("Ezekiel Opera,"

iii. 356), and others, identify

Lucifer with Satan, who also is

represented as being "cast down

from heaven" (Rev. xii. 7, 10;

comp. Luke x. 18).

Bibliography:
Cheyne, Encyc. Bibl.;
Duhm, Das Buch Jesaiah, 1892, p.

96."

https://jewishencyclopedia.com/arti

cles/10177-lucifer
I think that someone read this

“And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭10:18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭14:12-14 ‭KJV‬‬

who has fallen from heaven ? Who has deceived and weakened the nations of the world ?

“And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, and prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭12:7-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬


Who is the enemy of God and man ?

“Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭5:8-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬


Who will be brought low into the pit ?

“And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭20:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬


Prophecy is a mystery presented in scripture , the clarity and revelation of those prophecies are in the New Testament

someone was looking back from the New Testament at prophecy and saw th e correlation and how the king of Babylon is a prophetic earthly pattern for Satan who we begin to see operating in the New Testament doctrine against the entire world

It’s a prophetic pattern like this is a pattern of Jesus crucifixion and resurrection

“And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac,( Jesus the only begotten of God ) whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering ( offered as a sacrifice ) upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.

Then on the third day Abraham lifted up his eyes, and saw the place afar off.

And Abraham took the wood of the burnt offering, and laid it upon Isaac his son; ( Jesus carrying the cross ) and he took the fire in his hand, and a knife; and they went both of them together. ( Jesus said on the way to the cross I am not alone my father is with me )

And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: ( John saw Jesus and said “ look the lamb of God that taketh away sin)

so they went both of them together. ( again Jesus said my father is with me )

And they came to the place which God had told him of; and Abraham built an altar there, and laid the wood in order, and bound Isaac his son, and laid him on the altar upon the wood. ( Jesus was placed on a wooden cross )

( abraham is going to slay him but God saves him )

And the angel of the LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I. And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.

And the angel of the LORD called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time, and said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son: ( that’s about Jesus Abraham had two begotten sons ) that in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; ( that’s the promise of the New Testament the apostles all reference ) because thou hast obeyed my voice.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭22:2, 4, 6, 8-9, 11-12, 15-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The Old Testament is like a veiled blue print or pattern the New Testament is those patterns seen in truth

What im saying is Isaiah 14 is a prophetic pattern of satans fall from heaven ….
 

Gideon300

Well-known member
Mar 18, 2021
4,980
2,904
113
#15
Unpopular opinion is that the devil is the god of this world. Not because he wrested control of it away from God, but was allowed to be. Make of that what you will,
The answer is in Genesis. It's very simple. God gave authority and power over the earth, and all of His creation, to Adam and Eve. They disobeyed God and chose Satan's way instead. You are a slave to whoever you obey. (Romans 6:16). So Adam willfully and knowingly gave his authority to Satan.

Jesus reversed this as "The Last Adam". He was tempted in the wilderness, not Eden, and He resisted, unlike Adam. So Lord Jesus wrested control from Satan. We have the same authority and power as Lord Jesus. However, we must exercise that power and resist Satan, or we will end up bound by the devil. (2 Timothy 2:6)
 

Blade

Well-known member
Nov 19, 2019
1,676
596
113
#16
Hi.. for me this like a man of God that now believes post tribulation (which this is NOT about) he said with a big smile "who reads the NT and comes away with pre tribulation? No one does". To that I could only say "here I am".

So for me as I read Isaiah 14 is about Satan. If we read I believe its Daniel 10 we find the angel talking about just who with stood him. How did he talk about it? "But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me twenty-one days; and behold, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, for I had been left alone there with the kings of Persia."

I would say.. "Yeah I have to say your pulling one over on me Gab.. are you not an angel what man could withstand you for 21 days and then had to call on Michael one of the chief princes?"

There you go. This is nothing to what God has still in His word we have never touched....yet
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
16,756
3,562
113
#17
Adam was originally given dominion of the world (Gen 1:26, 28). When he sinned, that dominion was transferred to the devil (Luke 4:5-6). He still has it (2 Cor 4:4; 1 John 5:19), which explains the train-wreck status of our world. One day God will send His Son back to straighten things out. Could be soon!
Agreed, I also believe that the earth was given to Lucifer, the anointed cherub, until iniquity was found in him. His throne was on the earth, but wanted to exalt his throne above God.
 

studentoftheword

Well-known member
Nov 12, 2021
1,617
562
113
#18
The real puzzle is why did God allow this fallen angel to continue to influence world events when He could have easily cast him into the Lake of Fire immediately on the day he sinned?
Scripture does not tell us why God allowed a Satan to infiltrate His Plan ----all we can do is surmise as to why ------

Could it be that God wanted to give us Choice ------Without Satan we would be puppets on a string controlled by God ----as Adam and Eve were Obeying God and were in complete Fellowship with Him until Satan came on the scene ------

Could it be that ---A - -Satan was needed to put our faith in God and His word to the test -----Our Faith in God would have remained strong with no wavering without Satan to try steal our Faith in God and His word --and put Doubt and fear in our Minds -----

So it was in God's Plan I say to have a Satan introduced from the beginning ------in my view


And why would God allow this evil creature to destroy Job utterly, and to attack His children daily? God even allowed him to tempt Christ, when he should have been sent packing.
I say
With Job it was a test of faith and that is made plain in the scripture itself ------as Satan says ---If you take all he has --he will curse you to your face -------and God gives Satan permission to test where Job's Faith lies when he faces disaster ------


Jesus being Tempted by Satan showed 3 patterns that are common to Mankind --

The First Temptation ------ the lust of the Flesh ----

which was hunger as Jesus hadn't eaten in 40 days -----Satan said to Jesus ---

Matthew 4:3–4 (ESV)
3 And the tempter came and said to him, “If you are the Son of God, command these stones to become loaves of bread.”

Which Jesus overcame by Quoting God's word ---

4 But he answered, “It is written,
“ ‘Man shall not live by bread alone,
but by every word that comes from the mouth of God.’ ”



The second Temptation ----Is the pride of life -----

Matthew 4:5–7 (ESV)
5 Then the devil took him to the holy city and set him on the pinnacle of the temple 6 and said to him, “If you are the Son of God, throw yourself down, for it is written,
d“ ‘He will command his angels concerning you,’
and
“ ‘On their hands they will bear you up,
lest you strike your foot against a stone.’ ”

Jesus overcomes this by saying this to Satan

7 Jesus said to him, “Again it is written, ‘You shall not put the Lord your God to the test.’ ”


The Third Temptation -----is the lust of the eyes ------
Matthew 4:8-10

8 Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory.
9 And he said to him, “All these I will give you, if you will fall down and worship me.”

Jesus overcomes this temptation with this ------

10 Then Jesus said to him, “Be gone, Satan! For it is written,
“ ‘You shall worship the Lord your God
and him only shall you serve.’ ”


I say ---Jesus experiencing these temptations helps us see how Satan can Tempt us to keep us from serving God ----and we learn by this how we should respond when we are tempted by Satan -----

The scripture says that God will never tempt us beyond what we can handle and He will always provide a way out ------

How Awesome is that ------

1675898029569.jpeg
 
P

pottersclay

Guest
#19
Why satan? Adam and eve ate from the tree of good and evil. Jesus said there is no one good ecept the father.
And we all know where evil comes from.