Who first taught that Isaiah 14 is about Satan?
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13And you said to yourself, 'To the heavens will I ascend, above God's stars will I raise my throne, and I will sit on the mount of the assembly, in the farthest end of the north. https://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/15945/jewish/Chapter-14.htm
"14:12-15. In his military might this great king had laid low the nations, including Phoenicia, Philistia, Egypt, Moab, Edom, Cilicia, much of Judah, and northern Arabia. But he would fall like a morning star. The brilliance of a star in the early dawn suddenly vanishes when the sun rises. Sennacherib, because of his great power, thought himself godlike, but now by startling contrast he would be in the grave. In the ancient Near East, kings had supreme power; many were deified by their subjects. The people taunting this tyrant pictured him ascribing godlike characteristics to himself. Ascending to heaven ... above the stars and being enthroned on ... the sacred mountain recalls the belief of several Semitic peoples that the gods lived on Mount Zaphon. “Sacred mountain” (translates lit., “the north”). By ascending the mountain above ... the clouds, he was seeking to make himself like God, the Most High. (The language used here, of course, is hyperbolical.) Yet he would be brought low to the grave (pit is a synonym for grave). Nothing could save him from death and from decay in the grave. - A Lesson to Be Learned from the Defeat of the Tyrant "
http://www.evangel-online.com/Conte...-Book/20190603__BibStud__Isaiah__14_12_32.pdf
http://www.evangel-online.com/Conte...-Book/20190603__BibStud__Isaiah__14_12_32.pdf
Isaiah 14:11-15, Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee. How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
here’s another verse touching on the spiritual prisons of the long dead able to hear the gospel because he’s preaching it to them
“For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh,
but quickened by the Spirit: by which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.”
1 Peter 3:18-20 KJV
In The context there It says Jesus went after he died on the cross being made alive by the spirit went into the spiritual prisons and preached the gospel to people who had died in Noah’s day when he was readying the ark thousands of years before Jesus died
Also there’s this which is further proof Jesus preached the gospel to the dead after he died and entered into death where they were and set them free
“And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent; and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, and came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.”
Matthew 27:51-53 KJV
I guess Jesus was serious here when he said this the true good news
“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.”
John 5:24-25 KJV
It’s a special kind of Hope when your hero can snatch you back from death and even those who had died thousands of years before him even a special Hope further in that even those who are gone from us can still have the gospel preached to them by the spirit of God
Even in death He has become our hope
“Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; and deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.”
Hebrews 2:14-15 KJV
“For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh,
but quickened by the Spirit: by which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.”
1 Peter 3:18-20 KJV
In The context there It says Jesus went after he died on the cross being made alive by the spirit went into the spiritual prisons and preached the gospel to people who had died in Noah’s day when he was readying the ark thousands of years before Jesus died
Also there’s this which is further proof Jesus preached the gospel to the dead after he died and entered into death where they were and set them free
“And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent; and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, and came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.”
Matthew 27:51-53 KJV
I guess Jesus was serious here when he said this the true good news
“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.”
John 5:24-25 KJV
It’s a special kind of Hope when your hero can snatch you back from death and even those who had died thousands of years before him even a special Hope further in that even those who are gone from us can still have the gospel preached to them by the spirit of God
Even in death He has become our hope
“Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; and deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.”
Hebrews 2:14-15 KJV
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Seminary libraries? Where they teach doubt and unbelief and do their best to undermine the scriptures? The verses prior say that the being said that he would ascend to heaven, which is where Lord Jesus reigns. (Acts 1:9-11). It's hardly the place where Greek and Roman gods hang out.
My understanding is that there was a creation prior to the one described in Genesis. I believe that Satan's fall (Luke 10:8) was the reason for the destruction of that creation. That's why the the earth was covered in water. It was the great flood that preceded Noah's flood.
The being is described as "day star", son of the dawn. I believe that there was no need for the sun and moon, because the being was the light of the then world. The world was plunged into darkness when the being was cast down.
My understanding is that there was a creation prior to the one described in Genesis. I believe that Satan's fall (Luke 10:8) was the reason for the destruction of that creation. That's why the the earth was covered in water. It was the great flood that preceded Noah's flood.
The being is described as "day star", son of the dawn. I believe that there was no need for the sun and moon, because the being was the light of the then world. The world was plunged into darkness when the being was cast down.
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Do you believe some theologian before you believe what Jesus who is God Himself says?
Do you believe what Jesus said ? I do.. by faith.. by trust.. by grace
Num_23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?
Do you believe what Jesus said ? I do.. by faith.. by trust.. by grace
Num_23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?
Sorry I did not make it clear The Scriptures are the Word of God. So what Paul has written is Scripture. When i said theologian i was thinking about over the last few hundred years. With my mistake explained I will ask again,
end times, when the devil and his cohorts WILL be cast out, has been delayed. God intervened with Christianity..
Do you believe some theologian before you believe what Jesus who is God Himself says?
The whole Bible is the Word of God . I know there is conversations quoted like when Jesus was in the wilderness tempted of the devil, with Adam and Eve ETC. The Words spoken by Jesus are not less Scripture then those of Peter ,Paul and John etc nor more. The Whole is the Word and He said Joh 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.
Our understandings are different, Which makes for 'fun' times in forums. If we all thought or said the exact same things the forums would be dull. My understanding is, much changed in the generation around the time of Jesus on earth. When Jesus said
Mat_23:36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
Mat_24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
He knew what He was saying and the word 'this' was the generation He was speaking to. That generation ended with God having the Romans destroy the Temple etc in 70 ad .
Until about 35 years ago i believed the same as you
My goal is to share what i believe the same as you, having conversations about our differences to me is a good thing. Again i totally agree with Paul Simon. Blessings Brother
end times, when the devil and his cohorts WILL be cast out, has been delayed. God intervened with Christianity..
Do you believe some theologian before you believe what Jesus who is God Himself says?
The whole Bible is the Word of God . I know there is conversations quoted like when Jesus was in the wilderness tempted of the devil, with Adam and Eve ETC. The Words spoken by Jesus are not less Scripture then those of Peter ,Paul and John etc nor more. The Whole is the Word and He said Joh 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.
Our understandings are different, Which makes for 'fun' times in forums. If we all thought or said the exact same things the forums would be dull. My understanding is, much changed in the generation around the time of Jesus on earth. When Jesus said
Mat_23:36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
Mat_24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
He knew what He was saying and the word 'this' was the generation He was speaking to. That generation ended with God having the Romans destroy the Temple etc in 70 ad .
Until about 35 years ago i believed the same as you
My goal is to share what i believe the same as you, having conversations about our differences to me is a good thing. Again i totally agree with Paul Simon. Blessings Brother 
Sorry I did not make it clear The Scriptures are the Word of God. So what Paul has written is Scripture. When i said theologian i was thinking about over the last few hundred years. With my mistake explained I will ask again,
end times, when the devil and his cohorts WILL be cast out, has been delayed. God intervened with Christianity..
Do you believe some theologian before you believe what Jesus who is God Himself says?
The whole Bible is the Word of God . I know there is conversations quoted like when Jesus was in the wilderness tempted of the devil, with Adam and Eve ETC. The Words spoken by Jesus are not less Scripture then those of Peter ,Paul and John etc nor more. The Whole is the Word and He said Joh 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.
Our understandings are different, Which makes for 'fun' times in forums. If we all thought or said the exact same things the forums would be dull. My understanding is, much changed in the generation around the time of Jesus on earth. When Jesus said
Mat_23:36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
Mat_24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
He knew what He was saying and the word 'this' was the generation He was speaking to. That generation ended with God having the Romans destroy the Temple etc in 70 ad .
Until about 35 years ago i believed the same as you My goal is to share what i believe the same as you, having conversations about our differences to me is a good thing. Again i totally agree with Paul Simon. Blessings Brother
end times, when the devil and his cohorts WILL be cast out, has been delayed. God intervened with Christianity..
Do you believe some theologian before you believe what Jesus who is God Himself says?
The whole Bible is the Word of God . I know there is conversations quoted like when Jesus was in the wilderness tempted of the devil, with Adam and Eve ETC. The Words spoken by Jesus are not less Scripture then those of Peter ,Paul and John etc nor more. The Whole is the Word and He said Joh 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.
Our understandings are different, Which makes for 'fun' times in forums. If we all thought or said the exact same things the forums would be dull. My understanding is, much changed in the generation around the time of Jesus on earth. When Jesus said
Mat_23:36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
Mat_24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
He knew what He was saying and the word 'this' was the generation He was speaking to. That generation ended with God having the Romans destroy the Temple etc in 70 ad .
Until about 35 years ago i believed the same as you
My goal is to share what i believe the same as you, having conversations about our differences to me is a good thing. Again i totally agree with Paul Simon. Blessings Brother
People have answered and said how can this be true, for example if a contradicting verse like 2 Cor 4:4 is true?
But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them.
So one verse must be literally true and one must be true metaphorically or have pictorial application, and I have to admit im starting to look at which one is not literally true for two simple reasons.
1. Satan is not literally a God
2. Satan does not run around with a hot poker stabbing people in the eyes.
So its an obvious intended metaphor
So if we can see there is deeper truths in the metaphoric verse we can understand that the world is under the yoke of sin, under the sway of the evil one(another metaphoric reference) Humans with their fleshly carnal nature reject God and His Word in the same manner Satan did therefore they follow him in his downward spiral and become enemies of God and have become blind to the truth.
The analogy leads back to creation, Satan caused Eve to transgress which lead Adam to sin, and sin and death now effect the the whole world, Also we have Satan revealed in Isaiah 14 and other places and we can see how he acted and sinned which is way too much to get into but those who are perishing inadvertently follow/worship Satan in manner. Which means I also have to concede Satan does not have to be actually physically present in this world for verses like 2Cor 4:4 to be true.
......
I keep quoting that Scripture big difference there.
I dont believe the Scriptures contradict them selves, which in turn would mean our understanding is off. ( understanding / theology / dogma/ timing) Example of what i mean by 'timing'.... most take the Scripture where Jesus said " this generation" to mean one different, then what He said. Like when He says soon we tend to add a couple thousand years. We do the same wiht His words 'at hand' . I simply believe Him. I believe He knew what He was saying.
I dont believe the Scriptures contradict them selves, which in turn would mean our understanding is off. ( understanding / theology / dogma/ timing) Example of what i mean by 'timing'.... most take the Scripture where Jesus said " this generation" to mean one different, then what He said. Like when He says soon we tend to add a couple thousand years. We do the same wiht His words 'at hand' . I simply believe Him. I believe He knew what He was saying.
Oh I meant you quote that scripture.
Oh I never meant you think the scriptures contradict themselves I was more agreeing with you that they dont, and others think the same its just that different people make certain verses mean different things when scripture apparently contradicts itself by taking all verses literally. I think if we take scripture simply or literally all the time we come across problems, like when Nicodemus was told we must be born again, then how are we born again do we reenter the womb to be born a second time? would be the literal meaning of the words.
So I think with phrases like this generation can be taken simply, but is He talking about the generation being spoken too or the generation Hes speaking about? or both(if their is a both)
In Matthew 24 if the generation was the one He was speaking too and not the Generation He was speaking about, does that not mean the 1000yr Millennial kingdom would have followed, and then after the 1000yrs were finished does that not mean Jerusalem the eternal city has descended from heaven and we are all in heaven right now?
Oh I never meant you think the scriptures contradict themselves I was more agreeing with you that they dont, and others think the same its just that different people make certain verses mean different things when scripture apparently contradicts itself by taking all verses literally. I think if we take scripture simply or literally all the time we come across problems, like when Nicodemus was told we must be born again, then how are we born again do we reenter the womb to be born a second time? would be the literal meaning of the words.
So I think with phrases like this generation can be taken simply, but is He talking about the generation being spoken too or the generation Hes speaking about? or both(if their is a both)
In Matthew 24 if the generation was the one He was speaking too and not the Generation He was speaking about, does that not mean the 1000yr Millennial kingdom would have followed, and then after the 1000yrs were finished does that not mean Jerusalem the eternal city has descended from heaven and we are all in heaven right now?
