Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked
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"whoever" does not mean anyone. It means only those who believe. True belief comes only as a fruit of the Spirit - we can't give
it to ourselves we must be born-again
[Jhn 3:3 KJV] 3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
it to ourselves we must be born-again
[Jhn 3:3 KJV] 3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
No, being born-again is from salvation. True faith is from being born-again from salvation. We cannot make ourselves spiritually born just as we couldn't make ourselves physically born.
[Jhn 3:3,6, 8 KJV]
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. ...
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
[Jhn 3:3,6, 8 KJV]
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. ...
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
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No,
Whoever believes is born again,. That is what Jesus said
Your right, we can;t make ourselves born again, But God will not force us to be born again, He wants us to ask him in faith, then HE makes us born again.
Thats why Jesus used moses and the serpent as an example. When the people in faith looked up. they lived, If they did not look up in unbelief, they died.
He who believes is not condemned, He who does not believe is condemned already
Whoever believes is born again,. That is what Jesus said
Your right, we can;t make ourselves born again, But God will not force us to be born again, He wants us to ask him in faith, then HE makes us born again.
Thats why Jesus used moses and the serpent as an example. When the people in faith looked up. they lived, If they did not look up in unbelief, they died.
He who believes is not condemned, He who does not believe is condemned already
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I neither said nor implied anything against it nor did I say that it was no longer in effect.
[Rom 10:14-15 KJV] 1
4 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
[Rom 10:14-15 KJV] 1
4 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
I think there are more but am getting a little tired now so I'll try to find and post them later. In the below,
Esau is a picture of the non-elect, Jacob of the elect.
[Rom 9:11, 13-16, 18, 20-21 KJV]
11 (For [the children] being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth
...
13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
14 What shall we say then? [Is there] unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then [it is] not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. ...
18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will [have mercy], and whom he will he hardeneth. ...
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed [it], Why hast thou made me thus?
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
Esau is a picture of the non-elect, Jacob of the elect.
[Rom 9:11, 13-16, 18, 20-21 KJV]
11 (For [the children] being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth
...13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
14 What shall we say then? [Is there] unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then [it is] not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. ...
18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will [have mercy], and whom he will he hardeneth. ...
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed [it], Why hast thou made me thus?
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
No. It is that whosoever is born-again, believes.
[Gal 5:22 KJV] 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
A dead person cannot give to spiritual themselves life, and all were spiritually dead before becoming born again.
So, it is not a question of forcing it is of being given life from death.
[Col 2:13 KJV] 13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
[Gal 5:22 KJV] 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
A dead person cannot give to spiritual themselves life, and all were spiritually dead before becoming born again.
So, it is not a question of forcing it is of being given life from death.
[Col 2:13 KJV] 13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
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I'm not sure if this helps anyone, no this does not revolve around scriptures...... But when I was younger I was close with the lord. When my parents divorced I turned away and was in the world. I have rededicated my life. In that period of being in the world......I would have gone to hell. I had gone to being so close to the lord to do fat away.....I know I would have gone to hell. The lord has placed that on my heart after I had gave him my life.
That's not going by scriptures.....
That's not going by scriptures.....
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Nope. The purpose is for edification. For those that have the Holy Spirit, or for those who will be given the Holy Spirit, by that edification, they will gain a knowledge of/in Christ. For those who will believe not, it is evidence against them for the judgement.
[2Co 2:15-16 KJV]
15 For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish:
16 To the one [we are] the savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who [is] sufficient for these things?
[2Co 2:15-16 KJV]
15 For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish:
16 To the one [we are] the savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who [is] sufficient for these things?
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Jesus did not say whoever is born again will believe and have eternal life. again, the passage does not fit with what you are saying, it would have been worded different
Eternal life is the act of being born again, and this new birth is forever.
I never said they give themselves spiritual life. That is God
God is here, and saying here is my gift of life. If you would like, I will raise you up. if you do not want it. I will allow you to stay dead.
Again, he gave us the example. those who looked up in faith was given new life. those who did not died..
John 3: 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
God did not make the people with moses alive so they could look up and live. They had to chose.
They did not save themselves. they all were bitten, and would have died, Jesus healed them and raised up up..
Yes. They were raised why? Because their sins were forgiven, Justification must come first.. we are justified through faith.. God will not rise us up when we are still under the penalty of sin..
Eternal life is the act of being born again, and this new birth is forever.
I never said they give themselves spiritual life. That is God
God is here, and saying here is my gift of life. If you would like, I will raise you up. if you do not want it. I will allow you to stay dead.
Again, he gave us the example. those who looked up in faith was given new life. those who did not died..
John 3: 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
God did not make the people with moses alive so they could look up and live. They had to chose.
They did not save themselves. they all were bitten, and would have died, Jesus healed them and raised up up..
Yes. They were raised why? Because their sins were forgiven, Justification must come first.. we are justified through faith.. God will not rise us up when we are still under the penalty of sin..
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Exactly!! Romans says, 12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned
15 But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God’s grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many!
"Adam brought death to all people through that single act in the garden.
Paul rhetorically asks if “the many” died through Adam’s trespass, how much more did God’s grace and gift overflow to “the many” by one man (i.e Jesus Christ)?
How many people did Adam bring death to? Verse 12 says “Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned” The gift overflows to the many!
“That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.” – 1 Timothy 4:10
“For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign Lord, repent and live!” – Ezekiel 18:31
“He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.” – 1 John 2:2
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