Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked

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Everlasting-Grace

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Dec 18, 2021
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rogerg said:
[Col 2:13 KJV] 13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
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1. We were dead in our sins and uncircumcised flesh
2. He forgave us all of our sin, and in doing so, quickened us from the dead.

Justification resulted in new birth..

How are we justified?


  1. Acts 13:39
    and by Him everyone who believes is justified from all things from which you could not be justified by the law of Moses
  2. Romans 3:28. But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all [f]and on all who believe. For there is no difference; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified [g]freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a [h]propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
    Boasting Excluded
    27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is [i]justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law. 29 Or is He the God of the Jews only? Is He not also the God of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also, 30 since there is one God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith. 31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.


 
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rogerg

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Jul 13, 2021
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Everlasting-Grace said:
Get what??

there is nothing to get.. A dead person can do NOTHING

don;t use a dead person as example to try to get someone to see it your way, when your person is not really dead they are alive, and can chose..
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I'll leave you with this verse, it demonstrate that someone must be saved/born-again in order to be made alive spiritually and
to comprehend things spiritual - the Holy Spirit must first indwell someone and give to them spiritual life.

[1Co 2:12, 14 KJV]
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. ...
 
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Everlasting-Grace

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Dec 18, 2021
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rogerg said:
I'll leave you with this verse, it demonstrate that someone must be saved/born-again in order to be made alive spiritually and
to comprehend things spiritual - the Holy Spirit must first indwell someone and give to them spiritual life.

[1Co 2:12, 14 KJV]
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. ...
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So the HS has no ability to act as a human spirit so someone can understand and believe the gospel so they can really be justified by faith and made spiritually alive?

The HS makes us alive, Him entering us is not what makes us alive, we are alive because the penalty of sin is removed. The spirit is just a gift and a pledge

Are you going to answer my question?
 
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ButterflyJones

Active member
#5,588
Feb 5, 2023
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Everlasting-Grace said:
1. We were dead in our sins and uncircumcised flesh
2. He forgave us all of our sin, and in doing so, quickened us from the dead.

Justification resulted in new birth..

How are we justified?


  1. Acts 13:39
    and by Him everyone who believes is justified from all things from which you could not be justified by the law of Moses
  2. Romans 3:28. But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all [f]and on all who believe. For there is no difference; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified [g]freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a [h]propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
    Boasting Excluded
    27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is [i]justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law. 29 Or is He the God of the Jews only? Is He not also the God of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also, 30 since there is one God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith. 31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.

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ESV verses to come.
“Seeing they do not see,” Jesus said , Matthew 13:13

Ephesians 1
Thanksgiving and Prayer
15 For this reason, because I have heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love[f] toward all the saints, 16 I do not cease to give thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers, 17 that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give you the Spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of him, 18 having the eyes of your hearts enlightened, that you may know what is the hope to which he has called you, what are the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, 19 and what is the immeasurable greatness of his power toward us who believe, according to the working of his great might.
 
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Everlasting-Grace

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Dec 18, 2021
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#5,590
ButterflyJones said:
ESV verses to come.
“Seeing they do not see,” Jesus said , Matthew 13:13

Ephesians 1
Thanksgiving and Prayer
15 For this reason, because I have heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love[f] toward all the saints, 16 I do not cease to give thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers, 17 that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give you the Spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of him, 18 having the eyes of your hearts enlightened, that you may know what is the hope to which he has called you, what are the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, 19 and what is the immeasurable greatness of his power toward us who believe, according to the working of his great might.
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Seeing they do not see. This is how God hardens ones heart. By continuing to expose them to the truth the more they deny truth. The harder their heart becomes

Eph 1 is talking about God expanding the know2ledge of saved people. Not God making someone alive so they can say yes to his salvation.
 
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rogerg

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Jul 13, 2021
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#5,591
Everlasting-Grace said:
Why are we dead? Can you answer this?

Is this not the JUSTICE of God declaring the penalty of sin? Do you agree?
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The unsaved are dead because of Adam's transgression.

[Rom 5:15 KJV] 15 But not as the offence, so also [is] the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, [which is] by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
 
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rogerg

Well-known member
#5,593
Jul 13, 2021
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#5,593
ButterflyJones said:
ESV verses to come.
“Seeing they do not see,” Jesus said , Matthew 13:13

Ephesians 1
Thanksgiving and Prayer
15 For this reason, because I have heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love[f] toward all the saints, 16 I do not cease to give thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers, 17 that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give you the Spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of him, 18 having the eyes of your hearts enlightened, that you may know what is the hope to which he has called you, what are the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, 19 and what is the immeasurable greatness of his power toward us who believe, according to the working of his great might.
Click to expand...
Good luck, ButterflyJones. You've got your work cut out for you! I give up. He's just too far removed right now from how (I perceive) we understand the Bible.
 
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Everlasting-Grace

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Dec 18, 2021
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#5,594
rogerg said:
The unsaved are dead because of Adam's transgression.

[Rom 5:15 KJV] 15 But not as the offence, so also [is] the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, [which is] by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
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This is what happens when you fall for a religion

Please explain this verse to me

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death

Also. The very verse you gave me said we were dead in tresspasses and sins..(plural)

so while you are partly right. You are also wrong. Because you missed th e most important thing
 
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ButterflyJones

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Feb 5, 2023
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rogerg said:
Good luck, ButterflyJones. You've got your work cut out for you! I give up. He's just too far removed right now from how (I perceive) we understand the Bible.
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Read Titus 3.☺️

Only the Holy Spirit will change the natural mind to understand the things of God.
 
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Everlasting-Grace

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Dec 18, 2021
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#5,598
rogerg said:
Good luck, ButterflyJones. You've got your work cut out for you! I give up. He's just too far removed right now from how (I perceive) we understand the Bible.
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My friend, this is rude. What is with you people that if someone disagrees with you. They seem to have some issue And for some reason can not understand what your saying?

Maybe it is you who does not understand? I can;t help you can not understand, i can just explain WHY I can not see it your way

I few days ago. I said I agree to disagree with you. You brought me back into your debate twice now.. I finally tried to point the issue down by asking you specific questions. And this is how you react?

You need to look inside my friend
 
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Everlasting-Grace

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Dec 18, 2021
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#5,599
thomas64 said:
So tell me how you yielded a crop 30, 60 or a hundred times what was sown. You cannot include preaching on the internet as an answer
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I have no idea what this question has any purpose for

You said who has changed their mind. I have, I have seen others too. God can use anything, If you do not think we can open our minds, then maybe you need to go find someplace else to play
 
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Everlasting-Grace

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Dec 18, 2021
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#5,600
ButterflyJones said:
Read Titus 3.☺️

Only the Holy Spirit will change the natural mind to understand the things of God.
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Yep

God will over rule his justice and bring a person to life BEFORE the penalty of sin is removed, and titus 3 proves this

smh

Titus 3 says God saved us by his mercy not by works, through the washing (washing of sin, or forgiveness of sin, or justification) and new birth (regeneration) of the Holy Spirit

its funny the very verse you think proves me wrong. Ends up proving me right, washign must come first. THEN new birth.
 
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