Salvation is for the Whole World

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Sipsey

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Sep 27, 2018
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A.Kneeland a Greek scholar used the Greek Lexicons in 1822 to translate the NT. He compared the Greek to English side by side to prove to the world a god was correct. 19 other translations in history had a god, 1 had was godlike, 3 had was divine--all rejected by trinity clergys because that 1 fact proves they are false religion.
Much more has been learned of Koine since then.
 

Cameron143

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Mar 1, 2022
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Ok. So
So far repentant or unrepentant- all not here anymore paid the wages of sin= death. One is aquitted of all sin at death- Romans 6:7-- God would not hold those past sins against them at the resurrection.
what does that death look like? Forever in torment and separated from God or no longer exist?
 
Jun 20, 2022
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A.Kneeland a Greek scholar used the Greek Lexicons in 1822 to translate the NT. He compared the Greek to English side by side to prove to the world a god was correct. 19 other translations in history had a god, 1 had was godlike, 3 had was divine--all rejected by trinity clergys because that 1 fact proves they are false religion.
That is because they follow the 10th Century Greek Text that had been revised.

They basically rejected the oldest Greek Text we have in Archives.

You will notice the Truest and Oldest Greek Text Clearly and plainly spoken informs us that the WORD is in FACT, God!
 

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Much more has been learned of Koine since then.
False facts--Because Jesus is 100% clear at John 17:3--This means eternal life, their knowing you( Father) THE ONLY TRUE GOD and the one whom you sent forth Christ Jesus--2 major points taught-1) The Father is the only true God-2) The only true god sent another he did not come down here. Best to believe Jesus, all his real followers do.
 
Feb 5, 2023
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Ok. So

what does that death look like? Forever in torment and separated from God or no longer exist?
The first death is not permanent, a resurrection is promised. The second death is permanent.
 
Feb 5, 2023
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That is because they follow the 10th Century Greek Text that had been revised.

They basically rejected the oldest Greek Text we have in Archives.

You will notice the Truest and Oldest Greek Text Clearly and plainly spoken informs us that the WORD is in FACT, God!
If your thoughts were true, then Jesus would be a liar and we know he isnt--John 17:3--This means eternal life, their knowing you( Father) THE ONLY TRUE GOD and the one whom you sent forth Christ Jesus. 2 major points of reality there-1) The Father is the only true God-2) The only true God sent another he did not come down here.
 

Cameron143

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The first death is not permanent, a resurrection is promised. The second death is permanent.
I agree. Is the 2nd death a place of eternal torment or no longer in existence?
 

Sipsey

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False facts--Because Jesus is 100% clear at John 17:3--This means eternal life, their knowing you( Father) THE ONLY TRUE GOD and the one whom you sent forth Christ Jesus--2 major points taught-1) The Father is the only true God-2) The only true god sent another he did not come down here. Best to believe Jesus, all his real followers do.
You seem to ignore my statement with hogwash.
 
Dec 30, 2020
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Satan was a perfect angel then he rebelled-1/3 of the angels fell-they were all created perfect-to live forever as Adam and Eve were until they rebelled.
Adam and Eve were created with a free will and not knowing what was right and what was wrong. Where there is no law, there is no transgression. So they were created sinless but with a free will. The serpent changed their motivation from loving and obeying God to love of self. He lied about God's motive for forbidding them to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. God did not want them to be like Him. At the same time the serpent played on their own self interest. They could be like God by gaining this knowledge. Unfortunately, God had declared that all living beings were to reproduce beings after their own kind. Since Adam and Eve were the original humans, the knowledge that they gained from their disobedience affects their posterity. Have you ever wondered why God didn't just punish Adam and Eve for their disobedience instead of all of humanity. It's because this knowledge became part of their make-up which we call their conscience and we are all born with it. As beings with a free will and a conscience, we become responsible for all of our thoughts and actions. We all fail because our thoughts and actions are motivated by self-interest instead of love for God and others. We all follow in Adam and Eve's footsteps until God changes us and we walk in the Spirit with this God-given love.
 
Jun 20, 2022
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="aa31000, post:
The Father is the only true God-2) The only true God sent another he did not come down here.
How could the Father dwell inside Christ (John 14) and be on His Heavenly Throne simultaneously?

Obviously Omnipresent!

Obviously the Father came down if He is literally Dwelling inside Jesus while on Earth.

We know God is Spirit and the Father could easily be in Heaven on His Throne and simultaneously living on Earth inside Jesus body doing the works because the Father is Spirit!
 

Cameron143

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How could the Father dwell inside Christ (John 14) and be on His Heavenly Throne simultaneously?

Obviously Omnipresent!

Obviously the Father came down if He is literally Dwelling inside Jesus while on Earth.

We know God is Spirit and the Father could easily be in Heaven on His Throne and simultaneously living on Earth inside Jesus body doing the works because the Father is Spirit!
He also errs in that God doesn't share His glory with another. The very verse he cites has God sharing glory with Jesus.
 
Dec 30, 2020
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This is what a Jehovah's Witness would claim. But it is a FALSE CLAIM. The whole Christian world believes that the Word was GOD (THEOS). So there you have it folks. Another cultist to promote the Watchtower nonsense.
You guys are both wrong in your understanding.
Heb 1 :5-7 For unto which of the angels said He at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee?
And again , I will be to him a Father, and He shall be to Me a Son? And again, when He bringeth in the first-begotteen into the world, He saith, " And let all the angels of God worship Him. And of the angels He saith , Who maketh His angels spirits, and His ministers a flame of fire.
Christ's existence emanated from the Father's essence from which all things exist. Christ is the first living spiritual being that came from the Father. That is why He is the Father's Son. Just like the Father, Christ has His own mind, heart, and soul. Because the Father's essence completely fills Christ's being, Christ, with His free will, chooses to love and obey Him. That is why He sits at the Father's right hand (to do the Father's will). The Father communicates His will to the Son through His essence. The Father and Son are One in that whatever the Father wants, the Son wants also. The Son's will might differ from the Father, but the Son gladly acquiesces to the will of the Father. When Christ became a man, the essence of God the Father, through which Mary's seed was fertilized, again resulted in Christ being born but this time as a human. The Father and Son relationship occurs a second time (
And again ).
God has always existed. He has no beginning and no end. He transcends time, is omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient, and all-powerful. He can be described as an essence that permeates everywhere and possesses a mind, heart, and soul. Eph 4: 6 There is...One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. In John 15: 26 and John 8: 42 the Holy Spirit and Christ proceedeth from the Father. The Holy Spirit is the Father's Spirit through which He communicates and empowers.
Isaiah 43: 10 ... before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. This verse is spoken by Christ because the Father has no beginning but apparently, the God (Christ) in Isaiah 43: 10 had a time that existed before Him which means that He didn't always exist in the past. Actually, the beginning started when Christ was formed out of the Father's essence. Alpha and Omega means the first and the last.
The Father created all things through Christ,
which makes Christ the Lord and God of all creation, but the Father is God of all.
Heb 1: 8 But unto the Son He saith, Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever; a scepter of righteousness is the scepter of thy kingdom.
The Father gives Christ a kingdom to rule forever, made up of righteous beings who worship Him as a God.
Notice that the Father refers to His Son as " O God ".
Heb 1 : 9 Thou hast loved righteousness , and hated iniquity; therefore, God, even ( that is ) thy God, hath anointed Thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
Jesus' God ( the Father) has anointed Jesus with the oil of gladness above all created beings because Jesus loves righteousness ( doing the Father's will) and hates iniquity ( disobeying His will).

 

PennEd

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Apr 22, 2013
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It is the opposite, scripture is clear faith is required to be saved.
If faith doesn't come as a gift from God, where does it come from?
People are morally capable to believe or not believe.
This is EXACTLY what I said. You believe SOME people are more moral, better, or smarter than others, and that is why they are able to accept the Gospel, while less moral, or less smart people reject Him.

It actually is not.
Of COURSE Grace is a gift from God! No dispute on that at all.
But as I've said, the Word Grace itself means something that is freely, without merit of the recipient, given. The THAT in Ephesians 2:8-9 is unequivocally referring to the Faith that God Gifts to us. Tell me where YOUR Faith comes from if not from God? Do you muster it up out of your own strength?
James 1:17
New King James Version

17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and comes down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow of turning.
2 Timothy 1:5-6
New King James Version

5 when I call to remembrance the genuine faith that is in you, which dwelt first in your grandmother Lois and your mother Eunice, and I am persuaded is in you also. 6 Therefore I remind you to stir up the gift of God which is in you through the laying on of my hands.

But that is not what "dead" means, "dead" means separated, not morally incapable.
Just as I've said. A redefining of what the word dead means. If Paul wanted say SEPARATED, he was more than capable of using that word. This is the SAME beef you have with the Calvinists saying "World" doesn't mean WHOLE, unsaved World. Why can you change the meaning but they can't?

People hear the Gospel and some people are persuaded it is truth based on many different personal factors
What factors? Are they more intelligent? More moral?

and they accept the free gift offered to them by faith.

The entire call of the Gospels, become like a child, etc., is meaningless if faith is bequeathed to some and not others.
Again. WHERE does this faith come from? Did not God create you with EVERYTHING you possess?
 

Sipsey

Well-known member
Sep 27, 2018
1,503
713
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You guys are both wrong in your understanding.
Heb 1 :5-7 For unto which of the angels said He at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee?
And again , I will be to him a Father, and He shall be to Me a Son? And again, when He bringeth in the first-begotteen into the world, He saith, " And let all the angels of God worship Him. And of the angels He saith , Who maketh His angels spirits, and His ministers a flame of fire.
Christ's existence emanated from the Father's essence from which all things exist. Christ is the first living spiritual being that came from the Father. That is why He is the Father's Son. Just like the Father, Christ has His own mind, heart, and soul. Because the Father's essence completely fills Christ's being, Christ, with His free will, chooses to love and obey Him. That is why He sits at the Father's right hand (to do the Father's will). The Father communicates His will to the Son through His essence. The Father and Son are One in that whatever the Father wants, the Son wants also. The Son's will might differ from the Father, but the Son gladly acquiesces to the will of the Father. When Christ became a man, the essence of God the Father, through which Mary's seed was fertilized, again resulted in Christ being born but this time as a human. The Father and Son relationship occurs a second time (
And again ).
God has always existed. He has no beginning and no end. He transcends time, is omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient, and all-powerful. He can be described as an essence that permeates everywhere and possesses a mind, heart, and soul. Eph 4: 6 There is...One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. In John 15: 26 and John 8: 42 the Holy Spirit and Christ proceedeth from the Father. The Holy Spirit is the Father's Spirit through which He communicates and empowers.
Isaiah 43: 10 ... before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. This verse is spoken by Christ because the Father has no beginning but apparently, the God (Christ) in Isaiah 43: 10 had a time that existed before Him which means that He didn't always exist in the past. Actually, the beginning started when Christ was formed out of the Father's essence. Alpha and Omega means the first and the last.
The Father created all things through Christ,
which makes Christ the Lord and God of all creation, but the Father is God of all.
Heb 1: 8 But unto the Son He saith, Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever; a scepter of righteousness is the scepter of thy kingdom.
The Father gives Christ a kingdom to rule forever, made up of righteous beings who worship Him as a God.
Notice that the Father refers to His Son as " O God ".
Heb 1 : 9 Thou hast loved righteousness , and hated iniquity; therefore, God, even ( that is ) thy God, hath anointed Thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
Jesus' God ( the Father) has anointed Jesus with the oil of gladness above all created beings because Jesus loves righteousness ( doing the Father's will) and hates iniquity ( disobeying His will).
So, who do you say Jesus really is? A created being who just happens to be extremely obedient, or something else?
 
Jun 20, 2022
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If your thoughts were true, then Jesus would be a liar and we know he isnt--John 17:3--This means eternal life, their knowing you( Father) THE ONLY TRUE GOD and the one whom you sent forth Christ Jesus. 2 major points of reality there-1) The Father is the only true God-2) The only true God sent another he did not come down here.

I began thinking that you don't believe it is possible for One God, the True One God, is not capable of dealing with His creation in more than [one way] be it in the image of a human being, or through the Spirit and it still be the One True God?

You don't believe that God, who His Spirit, the WORD is Spirit, the Holy Spirit is Spirit, can be the SAME One True God through a Man that needed to be Sacrificed and His Spirit that dwells within all Believers by through God, WHO is Spirit cannot ALL IMAGES represented of the Being of Who God Chose to represent Himself as the One True God?

Jesus said the Father Dwells inside Him.

As the WORD [Spirit] (remember He was made flesh) 《that means》 {He existed in the Beginning in Spirit, because God is Spirit} He took on the form of a man [just as all True representations of God are Male (Father- WORD- Holy Spirit)] and He became the ONLY "possible" true Vessel that could Save our souls.
 

ForestGreenCook

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Jul 8, 2018
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Amen. Salvation has been made freely available to all who will humbly receive. The price has been paid in full.
John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”

If you are not acknowledging that the scriptures teach that there are two distinctive worlds, then you would have to say that the following scriptures are teaching that God "so loved the following world:

John 15:18-19 - If the world hat you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you. If ye were of the world, the world would love his own; but ye are not of the world, but I have chosen ye out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

Now Jesus knew that they were desirous to ask him, and said unto them, do you inquire among yourselves, of that I said, a little while, and ye shall not see me; and again, a little while, and ye shall see me? Verily, Verily, I say unto you, that ye shall weep and lament, but the world shall rejoice, and ye shall be sorrowful, but your sorrow shall be turned into joy.

John 17:9 - I pray for them; I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me

John 17:14 - I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world,

James 4:4 - Know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? Whosoever therefore shall be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.
 

ForestGreenCook

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Jul 8, 2018
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Amen repentance is the call to all
People

“I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭13:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Perish=death=separation. When a child of God commits a sin, he separates himself from God's fellowship, temporary, until he repents, for God will not fellowship sin, even turning his back on his own Son during that three hours of darkness when Christ bore our sins.

2 Peter 1:1 tells us that Peter, in 2 Peter 3:9, was speaking to those who have obtained like precious faith, even including himself by using the word "usward".
 

Pilgrimshope

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Sep 2, 2020
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Perish=death=separation. When a child of God commits a sin, he separates himself from God's fellowship, temporary, until he repents, for God will not fellowship sin, even turning his back on his own Son during that three hours of darkness when Christ bore our sins.

2 Peter 1:1 tells us that Peter, in 2 Peter 3:9, was speaking to those who have obtained like precious faith, even including himself by using the word "usward".
everything Peter wrote and Paul wrote is written to believers of Jesus and the true gospel whether Jew or gentile whether then or now.
 

ForestGreenCook

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Jul 8, 2018
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You cannot base any theology on one verse. It needs to take its substance from the whole Bible's teachings. Yes, the sins of the whole world are propitiated, but the Bible also says that a large majority of humans will reject God's gracious offer of the forgiveness of their sins.

Christ's crucifiction for the redemption of the sins of those that God gave him, was not an offering to mankind, for mankind's acceptance but was an offering to God, for God's acceptance..

All mankind did not seek after God (Psalms 53:3), until he quickened them to a new spiritual life (Eph 2:1-5).
 

ForestGreenCook

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everything Peter wrote and Paul wrote is written to believers of Jesus and the true gospel whether Jew or gentile whether then or now.

Your statement is true. God's inspired word was only written to God's born again children, instructing them as to how he wants them to live their lives, as they sojourn here on earth, It was not written to those who are not his children.