Salvation is for the Whole World

As far back as my memory takes me, I have always believed that God is real, indicating that I was born again spiritually, but I was not converted to see and understand the truth of the harmonizing scriptures, until I was 62 years old.

I have found that most spiritual seeking people tend to think their conversion is their born again experience, which may be your experience.

The new birth, for me, came unrecognisable. The scriptures explains it as a gentle breeze that you don't know where it came, nor where it goes.

For me, my conversion came, as if it were a 4th of July fireworks, and I couldn't tell people what I had been shown fast enough.

Believer, look back through all thine experience, and think of the way whereby the Lord thy God has led thee in the wilderness, and how He hath fed and clothed thee every day-how He hath borne with thine ill manners-how He hath put up with all thy murmurings, and all thy longings after the flesh-pots of Egypt-how He has opened the rock to supply thee, and fed thee with manna that came down from heaven.

Think of how His grace has been sufficient for thee in all thy troubles-how His blood has been a pardon to thee in all thy sins-how His rod and His staff have comforted thee. When thou hast thus looked back upon the love of the Lord, then let faith survey His love in the future, for remember that Christ's covenant and blood have something more in them than the past. He who has loved thee and pardoned thee, shall never cease to love and pardon.

-Spurgeon

Your first statement in your last paragraph isn't true. It's what I mean by misconceptions. Neither man believed God was bound in any way other than by His immutable attributes.

Let's leave Calvinism out of it

No problem, ForestGreenCook. My understanding is that from/by being saved/born again in this life, we are completely and fully saved, but the actualization - the final realization of that salvation - when everyone is judged by God on the last day, we shall be held harmless due to having been saved in this life. No one will be held harmless unless they were saved. I didn't mean to imply there is a second salvation if that's how you took it, instead, it is just the final act of the one. Nevertheless, the Bible does refer to that final act as being saved in the day of the Lord. The point I was trying to make was that when the Bible refers to becoming "saved" as a result of "calling on the name of the Lord", instead of calling upon His by being saved, the "saved" in view is of the last day - otherwise, it would mean that in order to become saved one would first have to first call upon the name of the Lord( our work), which we know cannot be the case. In other words, once saved in this life, our salvation is a done deal, but nevertheless, we will all still have to stand before the judgment seat of Christ, and each accordingly found not guilty or guilty, with those saved to be found not guilty.
Whew, I didn't do a good job explaining this as it is a little complicated because the Bible used same word to mean different things, but hopefully, you'll be able to see it in the following verses. If not, I'll try to clarify.
How would you understand them?

[1Co 5:5 KJV] 5
To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

[Rom 10:13 KJV] 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

[2Co 5:10 KJV] 10
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things [done] in [his] body, according to that he hath done, whether [it be] good or bad.

[Rom 14:10 KJV]
10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

[2Pe 2:9 KJV]
9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

[2Pe 3:7 KJV]
7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

[1Jo 4:17 KJV]
17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

Ironically, Spurgeon is using examples of people that God swore would never enter His rest because of their unbelief?

But preaching will always be necessary because God has ordained that through the foolishness of preaching His salvation will be wrought.

I did too!! But lately I've been wondering... (that's always a bad sign )

I'm going through an Ephesians teaching thing, and the guy pointed out that we are a tri-unity being - body, soul spirit- but that we are "dead" spiritually and go through life living according to the desires of the body (flesh) and soul (mind/emotions):

Eph. 2:1-3
And you were dead in the trespasses and sins 2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— 3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.

So, furthermore, he contends that the "prince of the power of the air" is also active in our lives... him being the dominant spiritual force in our lives? IDK

So, is that the spirituality that I was considering way back then?

I will answer that for you, but I want to see what Magenta's answer will be.

Let's leave Calvinism out of it and just go with the doctrine of some on this discussion board.

I am talking in practical realities.

To many here, God selects, man cannot choose, yet we have a direct correlation between conversions and where the Gospel is preached in the real world.

Does that not tell us something about the ability of a person to respond to the Gospel message?

So we either have a situation where God is constrained in His selection process by where the Gospel is preached

OR

people are in REALITY are responding to the Gospel because they have the ability to believe and this happens in areas where the Gospel is being preached.

If by salvation (deliverance), you are referring to eternal, then I disagree with you, but if you are referring to a delivery that the child of God receives as he sojourns here on earth, then I agree with you. Salvation, according to Strong's concordance means "a deliverance

The child of God is delivered many times, as he sojourns here in this world, by his good works, but is delivered, one time only, not by his works.

Well that's a start. I'll take it.

I was skipping around Youtube today. As I have said, I don't go by labels. I understand people have labeled all these POVs. But as I watched a Youtube discussion on the subject today, the person said he wasn't in either camp. So clearly there are places where things do get messy. But I don't think anyone here has said they save themselves, or that works save you. Still it has been repeated again and again as if it is fact.

Scripture also says that all who love are born of God (1 John 4:7). It seems to me that most people
love. Are most all then born again? Whether they know it or not, agree with it or not? Just something
I have wondered about. It could be we need to define love better or differently.


1 Peter 4:8

Love is defined in 1st Corinthians 13. According to that definition, most people, including Christians, aren't very good at it.

What passes for love, in too many cases, falls well short of the love of God.

Is the Scripture you refer to John 3:8?

The wind blows where it wishes. You hear its sound, but you do not know where
it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.

Is that really describing the new birth? .. I could not say either, when exactly I was
born again, but I know when it was I realized I had finally stopped fighting against God.

But you have told me I was born again to experience certain things of God, even though I was
for years afterwards still a non-believer and devoid of faith in the shed righteous blood of Christ.

We were both latecomers .

Ironically, Spurgeon is using examples of people that God swore would never enter His rest because of their unbelief?

Ironically, Spurgeon is using examples of people that God swore would never enter His rest because of their unbelief?