Salvation is for the Whole World

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Cameron143

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Mar 1, 2022
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A person that references all of the salvation scriptures to eternal salvation, is a very confused person, that has to figure out ways that their good works are necessary to achieve eternal salvation.

Salvation=deliverance, saved=delivered, and save=deliver, according to Strong's concordance.

Those children that are going through the process of being adopted as God's children are only delivered one time, eternally, but are delivered many times as they sojourn here on earth, by their good works, in following his commandments

If you ascribe all of the deliverance scriptures to mean eternal deliverance, they will tend to teach eternal deliverance is accomplished by one's good works.
Doesn't lead me there. And if you would have quoted the entire post you would be able to see the reason why. Even if someone's understanding of what salvation actually consists of and the spiritual mechanics involved, if they truly believe, they are still saved or born-again, whichever way you want to characterize it.
Any follow-up on post 1089?
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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If a person thinks on spiritual things, it is evidence that he has already been born again to the new spiritual life.

Satan does not teach anyone about spiritual things.
Job might disagree with you. I'll think on it some more...

I mean, Satan is the false accuser and seeks to draw people away from God, but at the same time,
the further people get from God, the worse things generally become for them, and then as they say,
there are no atheists in fox holes. Just meaning, suffering causes people to turn to God.



Luke 22:31-32 ~ Satan has asked to sift each of you like wheat...
 

Sipsey

Well-known member
Sep 27, 2018
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A person that references all of the salvation scriptures to eternal salvation, is a very confused person, that has to figure out ways that their good works are necessary to achieve eternal salvation.

Salvation=deliverance, saved=delivered, and save=deliver, according to Strong's concordance.

Those children that are going through the process of being adopted as God's children are only delivered one time, eternally, but are delivered many times as they sojourn here on earth, by their good works, in following his commandments

If you ascribe all of the deliverance scriptures to mean eternal deliverance, they will tend to teach eternal deliverance is accomplished by one's good works.
So what is the major drawback when using Strong’s numbers to discover the author’s meaning in a given verse of Scripture? It is this: Strong’s numbers tell you how the KJV translators might have translated a given word in the text in 1611. These numbers do not give you the semantic range of a given word but only the English words the KJV translators chose when they made their translation. To think that the KJV translators were the final authority in Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek lexicography is, unfortunately, to put one’s head in the sand and to ignore real and substantial advancements in understanding the biblical languages.

But there is one further pitfall that looms in the path of those who think they can use Strong’s numbers to discover the author’s meaning in any given text of the Bible. And this pitfall is that very often, people who use Strong’s numbers fall prey to the notion that words, in and of themselves, have meaning. The truth is that words have a semantic range of meaning, but only the immediate context in which a word is found can give the necessary criteria to know which of the meanings within a word’s semantic range is that which the author intends.

Let’s use the English word “just” as an example of “semantic range.” In the circle below, all of the various shades of meaning attached to the word “just” in the English language, as noted in Webster’s Dictionary, are given. Then on the side margins, I’ve appended short sentences using the word “just” in its various meanings.

Now consider the semantic range of the English word “just,” as given in the circle below. If you were a non-English speaker, and found the word “just” in a sentence you were attempting to understand, you might open an English Dictionary, find the word “just,” and note the circle of meanings (the word’s semantic range) given there. If you arbitrarily choose one of those meanings which you like, or which makes sense to you and import it into the sentence you are seeking to translate, there is a very good possibility that you will have chosen a meaning the author never intended. This is because a word gains its meaning by context, not by being chosen from a list expressing the semantic range of the word. Moreover, the meaning of a given word or group of words in any particular text of Scripture must be read in light of the larger context as well as the immediate context. The current “theme” of the author may control the particular meaning of a word or words in the text being read, and this theme may span a larger portion of the text, not just a few surrounding verses. 1678813064147.jpeg
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
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I wonder what happens when an elect person never hears but is still elected.

Surely God must choose someone from those tribes that have no contact with the outside world, or does He limit himself only to where the Gospel is preached?
The indwelling of the Holy Spirit reveals spiritual things to those who are born again.


Try looking at the history of the early american indian. No preacher taught them to worship the great Spirit, or when they die that they go to a happy hunting place.

The old testament saints were borne again with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, ( Isaiah 63:11) in just the same way that the new testament saints are, which includes us, that are born again.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
59,675
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Satan does not teach anyone about spiritual things.
Shortly after my conversion I was talking to a woman who had a familiar spirit which she was
quite attached to, no doubt believing it was harmless. I think it also somehow made her feel
special, and she was not in any way concerned that anything negative could come from the
association she had with it. Telling her about the Biblical God and the wiles of Satan really
would have done no good. I did express my concern to her, but she was quite resistant to the
notion that there was anything wrong with what she was doing. She was almost smug, and
definitely pleased about it. I did hope that the outcome of her association would be such that
she would turn to God, because people who remain in that sort of occult environment generally
come up against the futility and foolishness of thinking such dark forces can be or are friendly.


She would learn an unforgettable lesson.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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Shortly after my conversion I was talking to a woman who had a familiar spirit which she was
quite attached to, no doubt believing it was harmless. I think it also somehow made her feel
special, and she was not in any way concerned that anything negative could come from the
association she had with it. Telling her about the Biblical God and the wiles of Satan really
would have done no good. I did express my concern to her, but she was quite resistant to the
notion that there was anything wrong with what she was doing. She was almost smug, and
definitely pleased about it. I did hope that the outcome of her association would be such that
she would turn to God, because people who remain in that sort of occult environment generally
come up against the futility and foolishness of thinking such dark forces can be or are friendly.


She would learn an unforgettable lesson.
My favorite part about getting old is I now have stories for just about anything.
 

ThereRoseaLamb

Well-known member
Jan 17, 2023
4,678
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A person that references all of the salvation scriptures to eternal salvation, is a very confused person,
You mean people who read the Word and believe it. Yes, they must be very confused. :rolleyes:



that has to figure out ways that their good works are necessary to achieve eternal salvation.
Yeah, no one here has said that. Every single person has agreed it's by faith and God's grace so you can stop beating that drum.


Those children that are going through the process of being adopted as God's children are only delivered one time, eternally, but are delivered many times as they sojourn here on earth, by their good works, in following his commandments
My friend, you're more confused than a termite in a yo-yo.




If you ascribe all of the deliverance scriptures to mean eternal deliverance, they will tend to teach eternal deliverance is accomplished by one's good works.
Well that's what the Word says soooo, you're kinda out of luck.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
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Job might disagree with you. I'll think on it some more...

I mean, Satan is the false accuser and seeks to draw people away from God, but at the same time,
the further people get from God, the worse things generally become for them, and then as they say,
there are no atheists in fox holes. Just meaning, suffering causes people to turn to God.



Luke 22:31-32 ~ Satan has asked to sift each of you like wheat...
That is very true, about suffering turns a born again child of God, to turn to God. That is why God did not take the thorn out of Paul's flesh. That is also why his born again children are an afflicted, and poor people.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
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Scripture also says that all who love are born of God (1 John 4:7). It seems to me that most people
love. Are most all then born again? Whether they know it or not, agree with it or not? Just something
I have wondered about. It could be we need to define love better or differently.



1 Peter 4:8
I believe the scriptures to teach that there are far more that will be in heaven, than in hell.

In this present world, there seems to be more bad people, than good, but I believe the opposite is correct.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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That is very true, about suffering turns a born again child of God, to turn to God. That is why God did not take
the thorn out of Paul's flesh. That is also why his born again children are an afflicted, and poor people.
Do you think Saul was already born again when He met Christ on the road to Damascus?
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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I believe the scriptures to teach that there are far more that will be in heaven, than in hell.

In this present world, there seems to be more bad people, than good, but I believe the opposite is correct.
I believe your premise is correct but not the reasoning. I just believe creation is still in its infancy.
 

rogerg

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Jul 13, 2021
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Could it also be related to how the terms indwelt and filled by the Spirit are defined.
Being filled with the Holy Spirt was a temporary condition which caused he who was filled to utter specific prophetic utterances for the edification of others. For example:

[Act 2:4 KJV] 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

However, to be indwelt with the Holy Spirit is a permanent condition and occurs only once when/from being born-again in conjunction with being saved.

[2Ti 1:14 KJV] 14 That good thing which was committed unto thee keep by the Holy Ghost which dwelleth in us.

[1Jo 4:12 KJV] 12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.

[Jhn 14:17 KJV]
17 [Even] the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
59,675
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I believe the scriptures to teach that there are far more that will be in heaven, than in hell.

In this present world, there seems to be more bad people, than good, but I believe the opposite is correct.

Matthew 7:13 plus Romans 8:13
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
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I believe the scriptures to teach that there are far more that will be in heaven, than in hell.
[Gal 4:26-27 KJV]
26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
27 For it is written, Rejoice, [thou] barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
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So what is the major drawback when using Strong’s numbers to discover the author’s meaning in a given verse of Scripture? It is this: Strong’s numbers tell you how the KJV translators might have translated a given word in the text in 1611. These numbers do not give you the semantic range of a given word but only the English words the KJV translators chose when they made their translation. To think that the KJV translators were the final authority in Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek lexicography is, unfortunately, to put one’s head in the sand and to ignore real and substantial advancements in understanding the biblical languages.

But there is one further pitfall that looms in the path of those who think they can use Strong’s numbers to discover the author’s meaning in any given text of the Bible. And this pitfall is that very often, people who use Strong’s numbers fall prey to the notion that words, in and of themselves, have meaning. The truth is that words have a semantic range of meaning, but only the immediate context in which a word is found can give the necessary criteria to know which of the meanings within a word’s semantic range is that which the author intends.

Let’s use the English word “just” as an example of “semantic range.” In the circle below, all of the various shades of meaning attached to the word “just” in the English language, as noted in Webster’s Dictionary, are given. Then on the side margins, I’ve appended short sentences using the word “just” in its various meanings.

Now consider the semantic range of the English word “just,” as given in the circle below. If you were a non-English speaker, and found the word “just” in a sentence you were attempting to understand, you might open an English Dictionary, find the word “just,” and note the circle of meanings (the word’s semantic range) given there. If you arbitrarily choose one of those meanings which you like, or which makes sense to you and import it into the sentence you are seeking to translate, there is a very good possibility that you will have chosen a meaning the author never intended. This is because a word gains its meaning by context, not by being chosen from a list expressing the semantic range of the word. Moreover, the meaning of a given word or group of words in any particular text of Scripture must be read in light of the larger context as well as the immediate context. The current “theme” of the author may control the particular meaning of a word or words in the text being read, and this theme may span a larger portion of the text, not just a few surrounding verses. View attachment 249378

Oh, do you mean, like the word "world", when considering all of the worlds in context of other scriptures reveals that there are different worlds?

Or, the phrase "all men", when considering other scriptures in context, could mean "all men that is under consideration"?

Or, the word "salvation" when considering other scriptures in context, could mean "an eternal salvation" oe it could mean "a salvation that happens here in time"?
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
1,213
113
Shortly after my conversion I was talking to a woman who had a familiar spirit which she was
quite attached to, no doubt believing it was harmless. I think it also somehow made her feel
special, and she was not in any way concerned that anything negative could come from the
association she had with it. Telling her about the Biblical God and the wiles of Satan really
would have done no good. I did express my concern to her, but she was quite resistant to the
notion that there was anything wrong with what she was doing. She was almost smug, and
definitely pleased about it. I did hope that the outcome of her association would be such that
she would turn to God, because people who remain in that sort of occult environment generally
come up against the futility and foolishness of thinking such dark forces can be or are friendly.


She would learn an unforgettable lesson.

Yes, the scriptures teach us that satan can be very deceiving.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
1,213
113
You mean people who read the Word and believe it. Yes, they must be very confused. :rolleyes:





Yeah, no one here has said that. Every single person has agreed it's by faith and God's grace so you can stop beating that drum.




My friend, you're more confused than a termite in a yo-yo.






Well that's what the Word says soooo, you're kinda out of luck.

I hate to burst your bubble, but the "faith" in Eph 2:8, is not your faith, but is the faithfulness of Jesus willingness in going to the cross for you (Gal 2:16).
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
59,675
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113
Yes, the scriptures teach us that satan can be very deceiving.
Do you think Saul was already born again when He met Christ on the road to Damascus?
That is very true, about suffering turns a born again child of God, to turn to God. That is why God did not take
the thorn out of Paul's flesh. That is also why his born again children are an afflicted, and poor people.
Asking again...