Who Justifieth the Ungodly

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reneweddaybyday

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brightfame52 said:
2 Tim 2:10

10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
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:rolleyes: oh brother ... you don't like what's written in 1 Tim 2:4 and instead of believing what is written by the Author of Scripture, you harden your heart to the truth, change God's Word to your erroneous dogma, skip what is written in 1 Tim 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, as well as 2 Tim 1 and the first 9 verses of 2 Tim 2 ...

The Bible is the Word of God, literally "God-breathed" (2 Timothy 3:16), and we are commanded to read, study, and understand it through the use of good Bible study methods and always with the inspiration of the Holy Spirit to guide us (1 Corinthians 2:14). Our study is greatly enhanced by maintaining diligence in the use of context because it is quite easy to come to wrong conclusions by taking phrases and verses out of context. It is not difficult to point out places that seemingly contradict other portions of Scripture, but if we carefully look at their context and use the entirety of Scripture as a reference, we can understand the meaning of a passage. “Context is king” means that the context often drives the meaning of a phrase. To ignore context is to put ourselves at a tremendous disadvantage.​


The only reason the born again one is considered "elect" is because the Elect ... the Lord Jesus Christ ... resides within him or her:

Colossians 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

No Christ in ... no elect.


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
.
 
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brightfame52

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Cameron143 said:
I understand your point of view. But anyone can understand the content of the gospel. They are without spiritual understanding so any action on their part without an action on God's part will not yield salvation, but the very fact that one answers an altar call confirms they understood the gospel message.
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Not spiritually understood while a natural man 1 Cor 2;14
 
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brightfame52

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reneweddaybyday said:
:rolleyes: oh brother ... you don't like what's written in 1 Tim 2:4 and instead of believing what is written by the Author of Scripture, you harden your heart to the truth, change God's Word to your erroneous dogma, skip what is written in 1 Tim 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, as well as 2 Tim 1 and the first 9 verses of 2 Tim 2 ...

The Bible is the Word of God, literally "God-breathed" (2 Timothy 3:16), and we are commanded to read, study, and understand it through the use of good Bible study methods and always with the inspiration of the Holy Spirit to guide us (1 Corinthians 2:14). Our study is greatly enhanced by maintaining diligence in the use of context because it is quite easy to come to wrong conclusions by taking phrases and verses out of context. It is not difficult to point out places that seemingly contradict other portions of Scripture, but if we carefully look at their context and use the entirety of Scripture as a reference, we can understand the meaning of a passage. “Context is king” means that the context often drives the meaning of a phrase. To ignore context is to put ourselves at a tremendous disadvantage.​


The only reason the born again one is considered "elect" is because the Elect ... the Lord Jesus Christ ... resides within him or her:

Colossians 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

No Christ in ... no elect.


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
.
Click to expand...
Salvation/Justification is only for the elect. When we see the word all it simply means all the elect.
 
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brightfame52

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reneweddaybyday said:
Your denial of Scripture does not change Scripture to your stated erroneous dogma.

1 Cor 2:14 relates to the mystery, the hidden wisdom.

You have been, and continue to be, blown about by a wind of doctrine:

Ephesians 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive
.
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Tis you who denies the scripture my friend, for it plainly states that the natural man has no spiritual understanding of the things of God 1 Cor 2:14 we must be able to spiritually discern the things of God like the Gospel, but the natural man is dead to spiritual things, no life in him.
 
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brightfame52

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reneweddaybyday said:
:rolleyes: oh brother ... you don't like what's written in 1 Tim 2:4 and instead of believing what is written by the Author of Scripture, you harden your heart to the truth, change God's Word to your erroneous dogma, skip what is written in 1 Tim 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, as well as 2 Tim 1 and the first 9 verses of 2 Tim 2 ...

The Bible is the Word of God, literally "God-breathed" (2 Timothy 3:16), and we are commanded to read, study, and understand it through the use of good Bible study methods and always with the inspiration of the Holy Spirit to guide us (1 Corinthians 2:14). Our study is greatly enhanced by maintaining diligence in the use of context because it is quite easy to come to wrong conclusions by taking phrases and verses out of context. It is not difficult to point out places that seemingly contradict other portions of Scripture, but if we carefully look at their context and use the entirety of Scripture as a reference, we can understand the meaning of a passage. “Context is king” means that the context often drives the meaning of a phrase. To ignore context is to put ourselves at a tremendous disadvantage.​


The only reason the born again one is considered "elect" is because the Elect ... the Lord Jesus Christ ... resides within him or her:

Colossians 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

No Christ in ... no elect.


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
.
Click to expand...
Anyone with Spiritual understanding knows that only Gods elect are Justified, and were promised to be Justified Isa 45:25

In the Lord[Jesus Christ] shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory.

The seed of Israel is the elect out of every tribe and nation, not ethnic jews.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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brightfame52 said:
Of course he rejects it that is a symptom of not spiritually understanding it because he can't, he lacks the spiritual apprehension and ability.
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I'm not arguing that. You said that the natural man does not understand the gospel. The fact is, he does understand it. He merely rejects it.
 
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brightfame52

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Cameron143 said:
What exactly does that mean? What does he understand? What doesn't he understand?
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It means what it says, he can't understand it spiritually because he is only natural. The natural man understands not the things of the Spirit of God, they are foolishness to him because they must be Spiritually discerned. Can't you read! 1 Cor 2:14

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
 
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reneweddaybyday

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Mar 23, 2016
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brightfame52 said:
Salvation/Justification is only for the elect.
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:rolleyes: … no wonder your gospel consists of lies such as what you stated here:


brightfame52 said:
No, those He died for do not have to believe it, accept itor do anything but continue being ungodly sinners
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When God says:

1 Timothy 2:4 Who [God] will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

He means all men.

That God allows folks to reject Him does not mean He does not want all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.


When God says:

Ezekiel 33:11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die ...

He means He has no pleasure in the death of the wicked and that His preference would be that the wicked turn from his way and live.


You are totally and utterly ignorant of God ... you know nothing of the breadth and length and depth and height of the unfathomable love of God.

And you are totally and utterly ignorant of the inestimable worth of the sacrifice of the Lord Jesus Christ on behalf of the world, the whole world

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
.
 
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reneweddaybyday

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Mar 23, 2016
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brightfame52 said:
Cameron143 said:
He still understands the gospel. He merely rejects it.
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Of course he rejects it that is a symptom of not spiritually understanding it because he can't, he lacks the spiritual apprehension and ability.
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That is not what is written in Scripture, brightfame52.

Those who reject do so because they suppress the truth in unrighteousness, just as God tells us:

Romans 1:

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it [the gospel of Christ] is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold [Greek katechō] the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse


In vs 18, the words "who hold" are translated from the Greek word katechō which means to suppress, restrain.

God's Word does not say they "reject it that is a symptom of not spiritually understanding it because he can't, he lacks the spiritual apprehension and ability".

God's Word says they reject because they suppress, restrain the truth in unrighteousness when someone teaches them the gospel.

Romans 1:19 goes on to tell us that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. Clearly God provides enough for them to have that which may be known of God is manifest in them and for God to shew it unto them.

And Romans 1:20 tells us God's eternal power and Godhead has been revealed ... that is why those who suppress and restrain the truth in unrighteousness are without excuse.

It has nothing to do with your erroneous dogma concerning "ungodly elect" or "ungodly non-elect".

It has everything to do with God providing that which is needed for the world, the whole world to come to salvation ... and some reject. And God allowing those who suppress and restrain the truth in unrighteousness to become fools (Rom 1:22) and be given over to uncleanness (Rom 1:24), vile affections (Rom 1:26), and reprobate mind (Rom 1:28).


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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brightfame52 said:
It means what it says, he can't understand it spiritually because he is only natural. The natural man understands not the things of the Spirit of God, they are foolishness to him because they must be Spiritually discerned. Can't you read! 1 Cor 2:14

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Click to expand...
What is the difference between spiritual discernment and natural discernment?
 
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brightfame52

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reneweddaybyday said:
:rolleyes: … no wonder your gospel consists of lies such as what you stated here:





When God says:

1 Timothy 2:4 Who [God] will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

He means all men.

That God allows folks to reject Him does not mean He does not want all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.


When God says:

Ezekiel 33:11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die ...

He means He has no pleasure in the death of the wicked and that His preference would be that the wicked turn from his way and live.


You are totally and utterly ignorant of God ... you know nothing of the breadth and length and depth and height of the unfathomable love of God.

And you are totally and utterly ignorant of the inestimable worth of the sacrifice of the Lord Jesus Christ on behalf of the world, the whole world

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
.
Click to expand...
Again Justification and Eternal Salvation are only for the Elect, all of them Isa 45:17,25

17 But Israel shall be saved in the Lord with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

25 In the Lord shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory.

2 Tim 2:10

10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

There is no Salvation in Christ Jesus except for the Elect.
 
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brightfame52

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Cameron143 said:
What is the difference between spiritual discernment and natural discernment?
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One has the Spirit of God to give Spiritual discernment of the Spiritual things of God, and the other doesnt, they just have their natural discernment.

See Spiritual things need to be Spiritually understood, thats why God gives some people the Spirit in order to do that. 1 Cor 2:12-14

12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know[understand] the things that are freely given to us of God.

13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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brightfame52 said:
One has the Spirit of God to give Spiritual discernment of the Spiritual things of God, and the other doesnt, they just have their natural discernment.

See Spiritual things need to be Spiritually understood, thats why God gives some people the Spirit in order to do that. 1 Cor 2:12-14

12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know[understand] the things that are freely given to us of God.

13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
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So the natural man can understand the gospel enough to reject it but not accept it?
 
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brightfame52

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Cameron143 said:
So the natural man can understand the gospel enough to reject it but not accept it?
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Yes, he can understand it naturally just fine, but he cannot understand it Spiritually unto a Salvation conversion. In other words, when he understands it naturally he remains in a lost condition
 
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