Calvin did not invent the doctrines of grace

reneweddaybyday · Apr 11, 2023

... more deflection on your part.

Acts 5:

30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give [Greek didōmi] repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given [Greek didōmi] to them that obey him.

From Thayer's Greek Lexicon:

6. δίδωμι is joined with nouns denoting an act or an effect; and

a. the act or effect of him who gives, in such a sense that what he is said διδόναι (either absolutely or with the dative of person) he is conceived of as effecting, or as becoming its author …

or

b. the noun denotes something to be done by him to whom it is said to be given: διδόναι τινὶ μετάνοιαν, to cause him to repent, Acts 5:31; Acts 11:18;

vs 31 – God was ready to give repentance to those who slew and hanged on a tree the Lord Jesus Christ.

vs 32 – the same Greek word [didōmi] is used in this verse whom God hath given to them that obey him ... and what were they asked to do? ... receive the repentance given by God.
.

reneweddaybyday · Apr 11, 2023

brightfame52 said:

... again, deliberately obtuse.

brightfame52, you took it upon yourself to change an active verb to a passive verb and when asked to provide the authority whereby an active verb becomes passive, you have no answer.

Then, rather than humble yourself before God and ask Him to reveal to you the Scriptures as He has written, you blithely throw up verses which have nothing to do with the verse in discussion (and which still do not answer how an active verb becomes passive).

You will never understand Scripture when you handle God's Word in such a deceitful manner.

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
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brightfame52 · Apr 12, 2023

reneweddaybyday said:

... more deflection on your part.

Acts 5:

30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give [Greek didōmi] repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given [Greek didōmi] to them that obey him.

From Thayer's Greek Lexicon:

6. δίδωμι is joined with nouns denoting an act or an effect; and

a. the act or effect of him who gives, in such a sense that what he is said διδόναι (either absolutely or with the dative of person) he is conceived of as effecting, or as becoming its author …

or

b. the noun denotes something to be done by him to whom it is said to be given: διδόναι τινὶ μετάνοιαν, to cause him to repent, Acts 5:31; Acts 11:18;

vs 31 – God was ready to give repentance to those who slew and hanged on a tree the Lord Jesus Christ.

vs 32 – the same Greek word [didōmi] is used in this verse whom God hath given to them that obey him ... and what were they asked to do? ... receive the repentance given by God.
.

Jesus is a Saviour to Israel God's Elect Acts 13:23; Acts 5:31

brightfame52 · Apr 12, 2023

reneweddaybyday said:

Jesus gives repentance and turns those He died for from their sins Acts 3:26

Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

Magenta · Apr 12, 2023

brightfame52 said:

Acts 3:17 “Now, fellow Israelites, I know that you acted in ignorance, as did your leaders.
18 But this is how God fulfilled what he had foretold through all the prophets, saying that his
Messiah would suffer. 19 Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that
times of refreshing may come from the Lord, 20 and that he may send the Messiah, who has been
appointed for you—even Jesus. 21 Heaven must receive him until the time comes for God to restore
everything, as he promised long ago through his holy prophets. 22 For Moses said, ‘The Lord your
God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your own people; you must listen to
everything he tells you. 23 Anyone who does not listen to him will be completely cut off from their people.’

24 “Indeed, beginning with Samuel, all the prophets who have spoken have foretold these days.
25 And you are heirs of the prophets and of the covenant God made with your fathers. He said to
Abraham, ‘Through your offspring all peoples on earth will be blessed.’ 26 When God raised up
his servant, he sent him first to you to bless you by turning each of you from your wicked ways.”

reneweddaybyday · Apr 12, 2023

brightfame52 said:

It's really interesting that in Acts 5:31, Peter addressed the high priest and the council (Acts 5:21, 27) ... the same folks who clamored for the crucifixion of Jesus (Matt 27:20) ... and Peter told them:

Acts 5:

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give [Greek didōmi] repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given [Greek didōmi] to them that obey him.

vs 31 – God was ready to give repentance to those who slew and hanged on a tree the Lord Jesus Christ.

vs 32 – the same Greek word [didōmi] is used in this verse whom God hath given to them that obey him ... and what were they asked to do? ... receive the repentance given by God.

Reminds me of what Jesus said as He hung on the cross ... Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do – Luke 23:34.

.

ForestGreenCook · Apr 12, 2023

Magenta said:

Yes, Paul is praying for those that are already born again, and have the promise of an eternal inheritance, evidenced by their zeal of God, but not according a knowledge of the gospel, praying that they would be delivered (saved) from their ignorance of the gospel.

oyster67 · Apr 12, 2023

brightfame52 said:

And that is the crux of his problem. We should all be coming from Scripture.

rogerg · Apr 12, 2023

Snacks said:

You've come to an incorrect conclusion because you've used only one verse as a source for biblical doctrine.
No prophecy scripture is of any private interpretation.

[Jhn 6:37-39 KJV]
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. ...
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

oyster67 · Apr 12, 2023

brightfame52 said:

Mark 2:17
“When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”

ForestGreenCook · Apr 12, 2023

Snacks said:

The "all ye" is restricted to those who labour and are heavy laden spiritually, not fiscally. The natural man does not labour over spiritual things (1 Cor 2:14).

reneweddaybyday · Apr 12, 2023

brightfame52 said:

... perhaps not deliberate ???

brightfame52 ... you still have not explained how a verb in the active voice, subjunctive mood becomes a passive verb.

Dodge all you want, but you're just exposing yourself as one who has no problem manipulating Scripture.

Here's a verse you really need to learn:

2 Corinthians 4:2 But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.

READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
.

brightfame52 · Apr 12, 2023

reneweddaybyday said:

Jesus is a Saviour unto Israel, Gods Elect Acts 13:23

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins

Acts 13:23

23 Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:

Salvation in the Lord is promised to Israel Isa 45:17

17 But Israel shall be saved in the Lord with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

Faith believes the Promise, the Promise of Salvation is restricted to a Chosen people Israel. Not ethnic national israel, but a Israel composed of people of all ethnic groups, chosen in Christ before the foundation.

brightfame52 · Apr 12, 2023

oyster67 said:

Why do you reject scripture simply because its spoken by a man ? calvin was no more a sinner than Paul, Peter or any other man. See I believe its scripture you reject and disguise it by saying it is a sinful man you reject.

brightfame52 · Apr 12, 2023

oyster67 said:

okay I have no problem with that verse.

brightfame52 · Apr 12, 2023

reneweddaybyday said:

Again Jesus as Saviour turns us from our sins unto God Acts 3:26

26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

The same word is used in a Salvation context Rom 11:26

And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Those who turn to the Lord do so because they are saved by Christ. 2 Cor 3:16

Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.

Now the word for turned here is the word epistrephō and means:

to turn to
1. to the worship of the true God

to turn, to turn oneself,

Its an aorist active subjunctive,

So yes those being converted, turned by the Lord are active,

However Christ is the first cause effecting that activity. The same word is used in 1 Pet 2:25

For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls

But here the word is in the passive voice, they are being returned by Christ because they were healed by His stripes after He had bare their sins Vs 24

24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

So Christ and His redemptive death for them, healed them and effected their turning to conversion to God.

You are giving credit to man for what Christ has done, so He alone is responsible for a person turning to the Lord. Give Christ and His Spirit the Glory !

rogerg · Apr 12, 2023

brightfame52 said:

I've attempted on at least five occasions (maybe more) to explain that exact same thing to reneweddaybyday but he either can't or refuses to grasp it and keeps coming back to his point as though he alone discovered something no one else has considered.
A person turns to Christ but does so only because it is God who moves within them to do so - reneweddaybyday is focused only upon the 'what' but is oblivious to the 'how' and 'why'.

brightfame52 · Apr 12, 2023

rogerg said:

Yes, God must first turn us, then we repent/turn to Him

Jer 31:19

Surely after that I was turned, I repented; and after that I was instructed, I smote upon my thigh: I was ashamed, yea, even confounded, because I did bear the reproach of my youth.

brightfame52 · Apr 13, 2023

rogerg said:

Another good scripture attributing turning to the Lord to the Lord Lam 5:21

21 Turn thou us unto thee, O Lord, and we shall be turned; renew our days as of old.

reneweddaybyday · Apr 14, 2023

brightfame52 said:

excuse me???

The Lord Jesus Christ is the Savior ... the only begotten Son of the Father ... the Savior of the world, the whole world.

Again, in Acts 5:31, Peter was standing before the high priest and the council ... they were part of the "Israel" about whom Peter was speaking at the time he told them Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins. And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him – Acts 5:31-32.

Again, brightfame52, "give" in Acts 5:31 is the Greek word didōmi

Thayer's Greek Lexicon:

6. δίδωμι is joined with nouns denoting an act or an effect;

...

b. the noun denotes something to be done by him to whom it is said to be given: διδόναιτίνι μετάνοιαν, to cause him to repent, Acts 5:31; Acts 11:18;

The high priest and the council rejected what God wanted to give and God allowed them to reject ... just as we read in Ez 33:11

As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die ...

The high priest and the council refused to turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways ...
.

Calvin did not invent the doctrines of grace

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