Ukraine the bad guy?

"Russian trolls in typing here"

?

You have interesting sentance structure; especially for someone accusing others of being Russian trolls.

Let’s talk about you first.

I quote:

“You have interesting sentance structure”

Now, how’s that for a structure?

Or, how about you talk about yourself- a new member introducing theirself with nonsense.

The vast majority of my posts (and CV5'S) are backed up by either public info or strong lines of reasoning. On both this forum and bible study forum.

Do you have any good information or competent analysis to offer? Or just "echoes" of CNN and liberal mainstream media "in typing" ?

Be prepared to be even more devastated in the future.
I would urge you to seek professional help should the anguish become more than you can bear.

And thank God that you did not get kidnapped by Ukrainian press gangs and sent to the front. I have heard that those poor souls sent against their will have a lifespan measured in hours. And they were being specifically targeted if they spoke Russian or had any Russian connections.

There has been quite a lot of chatter about Chinese components discovered in Russian armaments. Perhaps these leaks supports those assertions....

Ukraine's military have an openly public neo-Nazi unit. I don't think Ukraine is a good guy. They're just the proxy America has saddled onto to fight a war against Russia.

Ukraine faces corruption investigation by Pentagon Inspector General over aid distribution

Ukraine faces corruption investigation by Pentagon Inspector General over aid distribution - Rebel News

"Pentagon Inspector General Robert Storch is probing the Ukrainian government for corruption concerning the large amounts of aid provided to the country after Russia's invasion in the previous year."

More of the same? Hard to believe otherwise......habitual cocaine users have terrible spending habits and worse moral restraint.

as i have said elsewhere, ukraine is giant international slush fund.

Agreed.

I think when a Hollywood awards show enlists Sean Penn to talk up Ukraine's president, and that man appears via live feed to express gratitude for Hollywood's support while all the celebs applaud and act as if he's a god, we should know its all for show.

You're under constant assault but you're able to give a live address to Hollywood west coast time? With Russia at the door? As the press makes it sound?

Notice the commercials, "I STAND WITH UKRAINE" , don't air now?

I've not seen any commercials asking for $upport.

You must have a serious affection for Russia. That’s okay. Everybody’s entitled to their opinion.

Why do you want Ukraine to be assimilated into Russia? That’s usually a mindset of the Kremlin gangsters and their disciples.

I was a member here for many years but I decided to take a hiatus in the fall of ‘20.

The problem here is that you are ignoring that Russia has invaded a sovereign country. That’s a fact. You can twist it any way you want but that’s the truth. The question is why you’re living in denial.

A simple "No" would have been sufficient.

This isn’t about you or me. A country has been invaded by another country and too many people are buying into the Russian disinformation. They’re good at causing division in our society. I can’t really blame people for sympathizing with the clever scoundrels of Kremlin. They play this game well.

Let's talk about the history of Russification in Ukraine. Here are some facts!

"I have heard and read a few people say that "many people in Ukraine speak Russian anyway".

Yes, they do.

Here is why.

1720 – Peter I's decree banning printing in the Ukrainian language and the seizure of Ukrainian church books.

1729 – Peter II ordered all government decrees and orders written in Ukrainian to be rewritten in Russian.

1763 – Catherine II banned teaching in Ukrainian at the Kyiv-Mohyla Academy.

1764 – Catherine II ordered the Russification of Ukraine.

1769 – The Russian Orthodox Church order the confiscation of Ukrainian primers and church books.

1775 – The destruction of the Zaporozhian Sich and closing of Ukrainian schools at the offices of the Cossack regiment.

1804 – according to a special royal decree in the Russian empire, all Ukrainian-language schools were banned, which led to the complete degradation of the Ukrainian population.

1832 – Reorganization of education in Ukraine transformed all teaching into Russian language

1847 – Increased persecution of the Ukrainian language and culture, the prohibition of the best works of Taras Shevchenko, Panteleimon Kulish, Mykola Kostomarov among others.

1862 – Closing of Ukrainian Sunday schools for adults in the Russian part of Ukraine.

1863 – Valuev Circular – a secret decree that prohibited censors from giving permission to the publication of Ukrainian spiritual and popular educational literature. It referred to Ukrainian as "a separate Little Russian language [that] never existed, does not exist, and shall not exist, and their [Little Russians] tongue used by commoners is nothing but Russian corrupted by the influence of Poland".

1864 – Adoption of a Charter which stated primary school education was to be conducted only in Russian.

1870 – Minister of Education of Russia states that "the ultimate goal of education for all inorodtsy (non-Russians, literally "people of other descent"), is unarguably their Russification

1876 - Alexander II’s decree banning the printing and import from abroad of any Ukrainian literature, and to ban Ukrainian stage performances and Ukrainian lyrics in music scores and folk songs.

1881 – Prohibition of teaching in the public schools and conducting church sermons in Ukrainian.

1884 – The ban by Alexander III of Ukrainian theater in all the provinces of “Little Russia”.

1888 – A decree by Alexander III banned the use of the Ukrainian language in official institutions and of Ukrainian given names.

1892 – Prohibition to translate books from Russian into Ukrainian.

1895 – Prohibition by the Main Administration of Printing to
publish Ukrainian-language children's books.

1914, 1916 – Russification campaign in western Ukraine, the prohibition of the Ukrainian word, education, church.

Then, believe it or not, things did not get better under Stalin's rule.
Nearly 8 million Ukrainians were starved to death in the Holodomor genocide . That is a lot of Ukrainian speakers that could no longer pass on their language and culture.

This is by no means a complete history of the Russification of Ukraine. Russia has been destroying the Ukrainian language and culture for over 350 years.

So yes, a lot of Ukraine speaks Russian. But not by choice. And to all those who paranoidly claim this is a war between Russia & the US. NO! Russia has been undermining Ukraine and demeaning Ukrainians long before America was even a nation. Poland owned much of Ukraine for many years. They had Polish schools, etc, but still allowed Ukrainian to be taught in schools, universities, & to write & publish in Ukrainian! They did not commit cultural genocide, like the Russians have been trying to do for centuries.

@cv5 again! Twitter is not a source! Anyone can go on Twitter & post anything! There are small attempts to limit Russian disinformation, but largely, anyone can post unverified and utter nonsense. You have been totally brainwashed in your opinions. America is helping Ukraine, I agree. But to what end? The US is helping a sovereign nation, Ukraine, defend itself, according to their treaty with Ukraine. Canada has no treaty, yet we give billions to Ukraine in cash & weapons. Why? Because there are so many people of Ukrainian descent here, but also it is the right thing to do!

Russia wants Ukraine! It has rich soil with extensive farmland. It is a tempting situation and Putin & his goons are trying to commit cultural & linguistic genocide, destroying language & culture! Russia, whether under Tsars or Soviets or Dictators, have tried to assimilate Ukraine for centuries. Stop making this into a fake proxy war, when history verifies that Russian aggression is the real cause of this invasion! Ukraine is the victim -a sovereign nation under attack. I hope every nation continues to support Ukraine, until this invasion ends, and the Russian empire is pushed back to its traditional boundaries & Ukraine is free!

No! CV5 is using Russian disinformation posted on Twitter! He is completely duped in this war! Twitter is not, never was, never will be a reliable source. If you agree with him, then you are just another brainwashed subject of the Russian empire.

And criticizing someone's posts on how recently they have joined CC is ridiculous, and cultic! I remember Susanna. To me, you are the newbie! You've only been here less than 2 years! Of course, almost everyone joined after me! Quite simply, you attacked the person, rather than her information and/or opinions.

As for your misinformed nonsense, which are Twitter conspiracies, time to learn some Ukrainian history, instead of spouting & repeating internet propaganda! Look at legitimate historical sources. Not internet nonsense.

I suggest you watch Timothy Snyder's Yale lectures on YouTube called:

The Making of Modern Ukraine"

He reviews the history of Ukraine back to its earliest days. He makes frequent trips to Ukraine, including during the war, and has read primary documents, archived in Poland & Ukraine. He is brilliant, but also truly educated, understanding not just the history, but the changing political landscape, the language, geography & sphere of conflict with neighbouring countries, conquerors & all of Europe.

And stop using Twitter as a valid source of information. It's 99% lies, & 1% truth!

I have a serious affection for peace. And my heartfelt sentiments lie with the Ukrainian PEOPLE and Russian PEOPLE.

To make my point again: this is NOT a fight between ethnic families. This is a war between MOB BOSSES.

The Western mob bosses started this fight (see Lindsay Graham, John McCain, Nuland videos. Proof positive) via the installation of their rump government. There is MASSIVE incontrovertible evidence that Ukraine has been the staging ground for a war planned from long ago. The Russian mob boss tried to make the peace.....they knew a turf war was in the making. They were turned down.

NATO doctrine is as follows: we will fight to the last Ukrainian. Real nice huh?

Except... it is.
Do you have any specific examples?
"our society" is divided on it's own; it doesn't need help with that.


So, I would do that- but first I took a look at who Timothy Snyder actually is: and what I found, is that he's a political hack (imo) and probably a globalist. His cynical evaluation of MAGA populism is a gross, gross, gross mischaracterization; and if he can't objectively evaluate a movement in his own country, why would I think he can evaluate the geopolitical in and outs of Ukraine?

So, since Ukraine has had it's own government, they have also been forcing their people to speak Russian? That's new to me.
Really? So why is my government seizing Russian property? Why are my bajillion dollar drones flying into the Russian ADIZ and getting put into the sea? Where is all this money going if it's not being used to kill Russians?

This has nothing to do with paranoia; if I die tomorrow, I die. Saying that this is not between the US and Russia is naïve.

(and I'm the cultish one)
I was mostly referring to suzanna being new to the conversation; not neccesarily CC.
No, I didn't "attack" anything... and there was no actual information to attack to begin with; just opinion- and that was the basis of my criticism, which by the way, was meant to be constructive.
Twitter isn't a source at all; it's more of a sharing platform... and I don't take things on twitter at face value without verifying it from other sources.

I am not Seymour Hersh. And I do not purport to post anything from "reliable sources". I post "information".

To preclude information that does not come from preferred sources is for journalists and prosecutors. I am not one of those.

BTW........Russia is notorious for their propaganda, yes of course. But the West ALSO publishes propaganda to deceive their own people day in and day out. I mean, the CIA has to earn their paychecks somehow right? Same goes for EVERY OTHER COUNTRY on earth. Including Canada who has an entire fully featured propaganda organ known as the CBC. Britian the BBC. Most of it Orwellian lies and manipulation, filtered and issued from the government security services.

“We’ll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false.”
-Former CIA Director William Casey.

These childish, blithe, pathetically ignorant notions of "good guys" vs "bad guys" is exactly the kind of reaction the nutters running the protection/intimidation/tax farming/debt farming operation are aiming for.

PLEASE do not expect me to be sending my kids off to the next fake war. I am not that stupid. But you go right ahead and satisfy that urge if you find it appealing.

This may all be true, but this conflict must be viewed from the dismantling of USSR forward and the USA's geopolitical ambitions in that arena.

I think that Ukraine and Russia could have continued to co-exist, with Ukraine being a buffer state bewteen NATO and Russia, however the USA and its military industrial complex had different ambitions.

So if you think this is the an continuation of some historical conflict between Russia and Ukraine only you would be wrong.

Ukraine has been manipulated into this conflict by NATO and the USA.

Great. So Ukraine is now fully "Russiafied". Well done. Very fine research.

So: what then is this war all about nowadays? Revenge for 300 year old grievances? Culpability for the crimes committed by the USSR? No....this war is not about that. Not really. In this war, historical context doesn't amount to a hill of beans, certainly as far as the West is concerned. This war is all about present day geopolitical hegemony. Mob bosses and turf wars.

I've got late breaking news: North America has been taken over by white settlers! Treaties have been broken! Oh the humanity!