Works of the Law

Making a child stand in the corner is an Unpleasant circumstance, but isn't that still...punishment?

As you discovered, there is nothing in the Lords Gospel which supports the teaching.

Paul wrote Titus. The teachings of Jesus Christ are found in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. Can you show where Jesus taught, "Not by Works, but by Grace"?

So let's have your version of how a person is saved.

He is just another in a long line of works salvationists...

Evmur really helped me to understand why they think the way they do. He really brought it to a simple pinpoint understanding of the problem.
The majority of the churches today are teaching, hopefully in complete ignorance, that Jesus Christ is our servant...instead of we are the servants meant to serve him.

This is another problem....they changed the Grace of God, which according to (Jude 4)...happened a long..long..time ago.

Do you believe Matthew, Mark, Luke and John are a signature line?
Now here's a real question for you. Educate me...
After Jesus ascended, there were over 1600 years before believers had a Bible.
How did they learn the Truth?

I wish I had the time to answer your question....but I don't. But I promise, I will answer your question tomorrow...or maybe today....if I have the time. BTW...a Very wise question.

The Vulgate was published in the late 4th century.
The apostles letters were circulating in the early churches in the first and second century.
The Greek Old Testament (Septuagint) was available before Jesus was born.

So it's not actually correct to say 1600 years before Bibles existed.

The Catholic Church accepted the Vulgate at the council of Trent as their official Bible (1563).

Well actually I have a few minutes to get started.

Adstar is right...like many before me, including my Lord Jesus Christ, Paul and the Lords disciples... we all teach the way unto salvation is through obedience to God. Unfortunately many people like Adstar are fooled into believing that obedience to God doesn't play a role in ones salvation. If you're not obedient to God...wouldn't that make you disobedient? And what happens to the disobedient?
So you see...simple logic tells us that obedience to God plays a role in our salvation.

Want to give your answer some of time to answer, which will take me a few hours, though you will read through it in less than a minute. So I'll tell you tomorrow when I have that time.

People who obey the 10 commandments love the lord and want to please him, his law is perfect and it will never come to pass. The Lord is unchanging, eternal. Jesus the son of GOD asked us to keep the commandments! All of you here know scriptures here about what jesus said about the law and his fulfillment of the Law. However I will quote the commandments Jesus asked us to follow;

Exo 34:28 And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.

from KJV
Exo 20:1 And God spake all these words, saying,
Exo 20:2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
Exo 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Exo 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
Exo 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
Exo 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
Exo 20:7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
Exo 20:12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
Exo 20:13 Thou shalt not kill.
Exo 20:14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.
Exo 20:15 Thou shalt not steal.
Exo 20:16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
Exo 20:17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.

The Great Commandment
Mat 22:34 But when the Pharisees had heard that he had put the Sadducees to silence, they were gathered together.
Mat 22:35 Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying
Mat 22:36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. ( the first four commandments)
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. ( the last 6 commandments)
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

The works of the law is first to love GOD with all our hearts and obey the commandments.

Some here may disagree but God was clear on the commandments it is written over and over in the bible to keep the commandments.

Blessings everyone.

I wonder how many times this has been answered for you already: the law remains to condemn those not saved
by grace through faith in the shed righteous blood of Jesus Christ. I know I have told you this a number of times.

To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin
is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law. Rom 5:13

The law still exists. How many times do you need to be told this? .

You missed my point entirely. I thought you were interested in what I had to say...my mistake. You only want to split hairs....so thanks for saving me from wasting my time answering your question.

To rephrase the question...
Was there an availably of bibles before the printing press was invented? No!
Was the bible in every home to be studied? No!
Most folks couldn't even read back then if they had the availability of a bible...So what did all these folks do? Did they travel to Rome, learn how to read Greek, then break into the church to read one??

Making a child stand in the corner is human punishment, not divine discipline.

As Paul explained, he received the Gospel by revelation from Yahshua Messiah. The Son had to accomplish our salvation by offering His life as a Sacrifice to save us before the Gospel was revealed and preached. He had to be raised from the dead by the Father to prove He fully obeyed the law and accomplished our Salvation. That was declared with power through His resurrection. His image in His last moment of death as the Glory of the Father raised Him to life again is recorded on the Shroud of Turin showing Him come to life.

Paul tells us where he received the Gospel of grace.

Galatians 1

11 But I make known to you, brothers, concerning the Gospel which was preached by me, that it is not according to man. 12 For I didn’t receive it from man, nor was I taught it, but it came to me through revelation of Yahshua the Messiah.

Peter was the first to announce the Gospel of Grace through faith in Yahshua Messiah in Acts 2 after they received the Holy Spirit. Paul explains in Galatians and Acts how he received the Gospel. He was persecuting believers till the day he was confronted by the Son and given the Gospel.

The Gospel of Salvation by Grace through Faith is even displayed through those He chose to announce it. Before dawn on the day He was crucified, Peter denied knowing Him while in His presence during the mock trials. Paul watched over the cloths of those who stoned Stephen while they stoned him. Paul consented to the deaths of believers and was on his way to arrest more and bring them bound to put them in prison when he was confronted by the Son on the road to Damascus, and given the Gospel to preach to the Gentiles.

There may be a message there about Grace.

Paul would be the most unlikely to be assigned preaching the Gospel of Grace through Faith to the Gentiles. He was a proud Israelite of the tribe of Benjamin. He considered himself blameless concerning the law. Then he was given the task to announce Salvation by Grace through Faith in Yahshua Messiah to Gentiles. Grace sure has strange ways.

Romans 1

1 Paul, a servant of Yahshua the Messiah, called to be an emissary, set apart for the Gospel of YAH, 2 which He promised before through His prophets in the holy Scriptures, 3 concerning His Son, Who was born of the offspring of David according to the flesh, 4 Who was declared to be the Son of YAH with power according to the Spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead, Yahshua the Messiah our Adonai, 5 through Whom we received grace and the office of emissary for obedience of faith among all the nations for His Name’s sake; 6 among whom you are also called to belong to Yahshua the Messiah; 7 to all who are in Rome, beloved of YAH, called to be holy ones: Grace to you and peace from YAH our Father and the Adonai Yahshua the Messiah.

Declared to be the Son of YAH with power according to the Spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead.

Yeah he came to serve God on mans behalf , and die for mans sin against God

now however after he’s done that we need to recognize who he is and what position he holds and what position we hold because of him being our lord and we are called to serve him wit all our heart in the world he is the almighty , we are his creation his beloved creatures


“And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭28:18-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:2-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we dont command God nor does he serve us he commands us and we freely choose to serve him not because of a bludgeon but because he has shown us his love in his suffering and shame his agony and tears his blood slowly running down the cross at Calvary in order to save our lives he laid down his life that’s why Christian’s love and serve the lord by honoring and living one another in his name in remembrance of the love he showed us we serve him in love

“Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us:

and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren. But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him? My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth. And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭3:16-19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

To obey God is found in loving his people the way he’s taught us to love each other like a family in him

There was public reading of the scripture in all the churches, yes. Letters were copied and read to all the members. You don't need printing presses when everyone was copying these letters.

Greek was the common language across the world due to Alexander the Great.

I am not splitting hairs, at all.

You grossly under estimate the transmission of information in the centuries, after the first century.

How long would it take a person whom was educated to copy a New Testament letter. From a stack of available New Testament letters?
Not long.