Calvin did not invent the doctrines of grace

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rogerg

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Magenta said:
How many times do I have to answer that question from you?

You are really playing up your lack of comprehension. More!

Doesn't reflect well on your general level of intelligence.
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Once more so I have it in writing to answer your question. Afraid to answer?
 
Snacks

Snacks

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ThereRoseaLamb said:
No, it doesn't. Scriptures bury this false doctrine. The fact that you are being a Pharisee and actively barring the gate to heaven to people is more concerning to me than you clinging to false doctrine. Whosoever means what it says. I proved you wrong with Scripture pages ago. This is 100% false doctrine and I don't understand why CC allows it to continue. Perhaps they simply don't see it, but it is DIRECTLY against what Scripture teaches.
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You’re not alone in wondering why CC allows calvinistic heretical garbage to be spewed across the pages for new believers and people who are weak in faith to ingest. It is antithetical to the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
 
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rogerg

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Snacks said:
You literally quoted Scripture, and only Scripture, yet someone gave your post a red X. That individual is giving Scripture a red X. Let that sink in.
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the red x was not for scripture but for the associated interpretation of that scripture. You should have been
able to figure that out, and if you did, then you're using it to take a cheap shot.
 
HeIsHere

HeIsHere

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I read an article and it concluded.....

Narcissism + Christianity = Calvinism.

They need prayer to be released from the old self/flesh that they have brought into their doctrine just like Augustine did many years ago.
 
Snacks

Snacks

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rogerg said:
the red x was not for scripture but for the associated interpretation of that scripture. You should have been
able to figure that out, and if you did, then you're using it to take a cheap shot.
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❌❌❌❌❌
 
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reneweddaybyday

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rogerg said:
You must be thinking of someone else
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nope ...




rogerg said:
or confused
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nope ...




rogerg said:
I am not the one who believes that anyone is saved by THEIR faith.
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I do not believe anyone who has posted on this thread believes they are "saved by THEIR faith" ... which is why I pointed out your straw man in your Post 1191:


rogerg said:
brightfame52, there will always be those who try to rip salvation from the power of the Saviour and instead bestow it upon themselves.
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Here are just a few posts submitted by you in this thread alone wherein you throw up your straw man:


rogerg said:
no one can be saved by any of their own actions.
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rogerg said:
Repentance is coming to faith in Christ as Saviour instead of trusting in our own works for it.
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rogerg said:
It does NOT mean they
save themselves.
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rogerg said:
the " labour and are heavy laden" part - meaning labouring and heavily laden by their works for salvation ... those who believe that they must only produce their own faith in order to be saved are in that category.
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rogerg said:
perceiving their salvation dependent upon themselves and not God, and also their faith dependent upon themselves and not God.
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rogerg said:
To walk after the flesh, is to trust in the works of the flesh (our own works), for salvation.
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rogerg said:
Those to whom strong meat belongs have exercised their senses to be able to find the gospel- grace through Christ verses works
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All who have posted on this thread believe salvation is wholly through God's grace, mercy, lovingkindness ... for you to continuously harp on salvation through works is a straw man argument on your part.

If you do not understand ... please let me know and I will be happy to explain to you why your claim is straw man ...
.
 
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reneweddaybyday

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rogerg said:
reneweddaybyday said:
does anyone (other than myself) find it interesting that rogerg placed his x at Post 1165 which submits only Scripture verses in response to a claim and at Post 1181 which, again, contains only Scripture??? rogerg, you might just want to check your heart on that anomaly ... just sayin' ....
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It is not the scripture, it is yours (and others) interpretation of scripture.
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oh really??? the only thing submitted by me in Post 1165 was Scripture ... the only thing submitted by Magenta in Post 1181 was Scripture ... there were no explanations/interpretations of Scripture by me or Magenta.

Like I said, rogerg, you might want to check your heart on that ... maybe I was in error about that being an anomaly ...
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reneweddaybyday

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ThereRoseaLamb said:
I have told some people to just rip that part out and forget it. They deny so much of what is in plain sight. They bind themselves to a verse or two and make a whole religion out of it. And then they dogmatically hold to it. It's very sad.
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God is so patient with us ... so loving and so kind. I love these verses in Psalm 103:

Psalm 103:

8 The LORD is merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and plenteous in mercy.

9 He will not always chide: neither will he keep his anger for ever.

10 He hath not dealt with us after our sins; nor rewarded us according to our iniquities.

11 For as the heaven is high above the earth, so great is his mercy toward them that fear him.

12 As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us.

13 Like as a father pitieth his children, so the LORD pitieth them that fear him.

14 For he knoweth our frame; he remembereth that we are dust.
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reneweddaybyday

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rogerg said:
the red x was not for scripture but for the associated interpretation of that scripture. You should have been
able to figure that out, and if you did, then you're using it to take a cheap shot.
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there was no "associated interpretation of that scripture" included by Magenta ... Post 1181 ... it's at the top of a new page ... Magenta included only a smiley.

instead of taking to heart what other born again believers are telling you, you engage in blame-shifting ... what next, rogerg??? you gonna blame God for having given us His wonderful Word ... you've already blamed Magenta for having shared a beautiful panel with us ...
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reneweddaybyday

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rogerg said:
ThereRoseaLamb said:
But that is not what you believe, your friend before you said it. You have to be saved to get saved. That is flat out false doctrine. No one here has said they save themselves. Not -one-single-person said or believes that. If you believe you have to be saved to get saved you're like a dog chasing it's tail. Don't tell us we don't comprehend, we read the Word with our own eyes. I don't give a fig what Calvin said, the Bible said "WHOSOEVER" and I will not shut the gate to heaven or stand by why someone else does!! He came for ALL. God said it, I believe it, that settles it, red x from man isn't going to change what the Word says.
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Regarding one's saving of oneself
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no one believes in "one's saving of oneself" ... more of your straw man




rogerg said:
Salvation is a gift of God's in its entirety from start to finish
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this is not in dispute ... so, again, another straw man ...




rogerg said:
through Christ to those whom He has chosen
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John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.




rogerg said:
Anything not as of a gift from Him makes it into a work and an attempt to rip it from the Saviour - which, of course, will/can never be successful.
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since salvation is a gift from Him, believing what He tells us does not turn salvation "into a work" ... nor is believing "an attempt to rip it from the Savior".

another fact you need to understand (which I have already explained to you) is that God specifically tells us faith is not work on the part of the believer:

Romans 4:

3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
.
 
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rogerg

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reneweddaybyday said:
oh really??? the only thing submitted by me in Post 1165 was Scripture ... the only thing submitted by Magenta in Post 1181 was Scripture ... there were no explanations/interpretations of Scripture by me or Magenta.
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Her post regarded brightfame52's post, as was yours. Hers was incorrect and misinformed, as was yours.
 
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rogerg

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reneweddaybyday said:
no one believes in "one's saving of oneself" ... more of your straw man





this is not in dispute ... so, again, another straw man ...





John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.





since salvation is a gift from Him, believing what He tells us does not turn salvation "into a work" ... nor is believing "an attempt to rip it from the Savior".

another fact you need to understand (which I have already explained to you) is that God specifically tells us faith is not work on the part of the believer:

Romans 4:

3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
.
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So I'll ask you both again, how do you think someone becomes saved? State both of you answers plainly and clearly.
 
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reneweddaybyday

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rogerg said:
John146 said:
Gifts must be received.;)
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The gift is spiritual life. They must be placed in possession of it ... would anyone then reject it? If they would, then they never had it.
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Romans 1:

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

vs 18 – the words "who hold" are translated from the Greek word katechō which means to suppress, restrain.

Those who do not suppress, restrain the truth are then "placed in possession of it" (to use your vernacular) ...
.
 
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reneweddaybyday

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rogerg said:
So I'll ask you both again, how do you think someone becomes saved? State both of you answers plainly and clearly.
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speaking for myself ...

Acts 15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.
.
 
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rogerg

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reneweddaybyday said:
speaking for myself ...

Acts 15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.
.
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So then because not everyone will become saved, you are saying that you believe in election, right?
 
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ThereRoseaLamb

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reneweddaybyday said:
speaking for myself ...

Acts 15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.
.
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About 40 pages back we went through the works vs faith Scriptures. We went through the whole convo. Alas here we are again. I don't know why people insist on making salvation hard to understand and even harder to attain. smh
 
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rogerg

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ThereRoseaLamb said:
About 40 pages back we went through the works vs faith Scriptures. We went through the whole convo. Alas here we are again. I don't know why people insist on making salvation hard to understand and even harder to attain. smh
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It is either by grace, but since not everyone will be saved, that means it has to be by election, or that the person to be saved must do something for it. there is no third option
 
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