Angels can procreate

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LenMcM

LenMcM

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Ted01 said:
From Gotquestions.org:
"The Bible never directly says whether angels reproduce, but Jesus touched on a related subject. When asked about human marriage in eternity, Jesus replied, “At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven” (Matthew 22:30). The fact that there is no marriage among angels has led some to believe that angels are “sexless” or genderless. Of course, if angels are genderless, then a safe assumption is that they do not reproduce—but that conclusion cannot be proved from the text. The fact that there is no marriage among angels does not necessarily mean there is no gender and no procreation. Angels do not marry, but we can’t make the leap from “no marriage” to “no gender” or “no reproduction,” however logical such a leap would seem."


Are you, and GotQuestions.org, suggesting that God changes His stance on sex outside of marriage when we get to Heaven?
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Generally i agree with you, but would add the following, For the birth of Jesus, Mary a mortal was overshadowed by the Holy Spirit Luke 1:35 ,- The result was the man/God Jesus. From this and Matt 22:30 my personal belief is that there is no marriage and no sex in Heaven. I account for the offspring of fallen angels as follows. We know that humans can be possessed by demons, and I consider that if a person has caused/ allowed themselves to be possessed, then a demon is able to manipulate that persons genetic DNA chain to produce offspring. In a slightly similar way as was Jesus birth. Personally i think this is the only way a demon can reproduce. But again as you have rightly pointed out, we need to be careful to avoid being dogmatic when there is very little Scripture proof to go on. We will get our true answer in Heaven. Our present beliefs regarding this will not affect our salvation. Better to get on with ways to reach the lost.
 
Clayman

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iamsoandso said:
There are others other than those who see angels as sons of God who see this as an genetic trait there are those who promote the Serpent seed theology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serpent_seed where the Devil,Serpent,Dragon is who is the biological father of Cain(I see this as heresy).
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Oh, As do I.

Back to what I am speaking towards,,, If then the sons of God is representing Seth's children and Cain's children are representing the daughters of men then this is no longer an genetic disorder that is hereditary and passed down through Cain's offspring by genetics. This then is an ethnicity issue and not an racial issue in that it reflects their ethnic values https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnicity (I'm saying this because some are saying Gen. 6:4 is representing the same as you just explained but when you read their post they are wording this as genetic rather than ethnic.) in doing so their seeing this as an racial issue as if their is an race of beings on earth that is to be avoided because of genetics.

There in I think is the issue of Genesis 3 through 6-7 in that there is interpretation's of it representing an genetic issue or an ethnic issue. If it is to be interpreted as an ethnic issue then it would make no difference if Seth's sons took to wife Cain's daughters and ungodliness spread throughout the earth because both Seth's and Cain's children are implicated in this approach. In the other case if it be genetic in that it spread through Cain's children or from angels then there is an race of peoples on earth to be avoided. If Adam is the son of God and he(Adam) is the father of Cain,Able and Seth then if genetic God is it's origin. If there are no genetics involved in ungodliness and only ethnics are involved then it would make no difference if Seth's sons took to wife Cains daughters and the issue is that Seth's sons chose to become ungodly.
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I think I follow what your saying, So am probably pretty like minded I see the descendants of Cain as simply the mechanism that the Sethites confirmed their falling away from God, When you read the traits of Cains descendants they were the craftsmen, the musicians, the builder of cities, and the propagators of livestock. The world and the accomplishment of man is a bright light with pleasures and attractions that can be the opposite to the death of self. And with Centuries not decades to enjoy the worldly lifestyle it would be pretty tempting.

Funnily enough, I probably could get accused of going to far the other way, I think there was a descendant of Cain on board the ark, even a descendant of the giants which is where the Canaanites are descendant from, also I believe there are a couple of Canaanites in the genealogy of the Lord Jesus, As I believe no one is exempted from salvation, God desires all men to be saved, and is not racist and some Canaanites no doubt were saved.

Those who believe in the offspring of angels and mankind seem to have them as beings so evil that they needed immediate extermination, but to me another aspect of this belief is that it slights the character of God, who is sovereign so nothing happens that He does not want to happen, also that He is a God of Grace and Mercy and Love.
 
HeIsHere

HeIsHere

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iamsoandso said:
There is Serpent seed theologist among your posters I caution you if you are not learned in their arts....
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Thank you, this did cross my mind but since it was not overt I was not sure, but now that you see it as well it makes me more convinced.
 
HeIsHere

HeIsHere

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LenMcM said:
Generally i agree with you, but would add the following, For the birth of Jesus, Mary a mortal was overshadowed by the Holy Spirit Luke 1:35 ,- The result was the man/God Jesus. From this and Matt 22:30 my personal belief is that there is no marriage and no sex in Heaven. I account for the offspring of fallen angels as follows. We know that humans can be possessed by demons, and I consider that if a person has caused/ allowed themselves to be possessed, then a demon is able to manipulate that persons genetic DNA chain to produce offspring. In a slightly similar way as was Jesus birth. Personally i think this is the only way a demon can reproduce. But again as you have rightly pointed out, we need to be careful to avoid being dogmatic when there is very little Scripture proof to go on. We will get our true answer in Heaven. Our present beliefs regarding this will not affect our salvation. Better to get on with ways to reach the lost.
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And why does this not continue on to this day?
 
CS1

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LenMcM said:
Generally i agree with you, but would add the following, For the birth of Jesus, Mary a mortal was overshadowed by the Holy Spirit Luke 1:35 ,- The result was the man/God Jesus. From this and Matt 22:30 my personal belief is that there is no marriage and no sex in Heaven. I account for the offspring of fallen angels as follows. We know that humans can be possessed by demons, and I consider that if a person has caused/ allowed themselves to be possessed, then a demon is able to manipulate that person's genetic DNA chain to produce offspring in a slightly similar way as was Jesus birth. Personally i think this is the only way a demon can reproduce. But again, as you have rightly pointed out, we need to be careful to avoid being dogmatic when there is very little Scripture proof to go on. We will get our true answer in Heaven. Our present beliefs regarding this will not affect our salvation. Better to get on with ways to reach the lost.
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You have an interesting opinion, and you may think a demon can manipulate DNA, but the word of God doesn't say that or show that to be true. In addition, the Holy Spirit did not have sexual relations with Mary and create Jesus. Jesus is Fully God and fully man, not half man, and half God. Also, The Holy Spirit is God, and only God can create. Demons cannot change the order of God no more than a man can be a woman or a woman be a man.
 
The_Watchers_2017

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CS1 said:
You have an interesting opinion, and you may think a demon can manipulate DNA, but the word of God doesn't say that or show that to be true. In addition, the Holy Spirit did not have sexual relations with Mary and create Jesus. Jesus is Fully God and fully man, not half man, and half God. Also, The Holy Spirit is God, and only God can create. Demons cannot change the order of God no more than a man can be a woman or a woman be a man.
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They weren't Demons until they SINNED!
And oddly enough, we only talk about the SIN committed by Satan, there is literally another 1/3 [ONE-THIRD] of Heaven who also were going around committing SINS. And this discussion is about Their SINS in Genesis 6 and 12. People act like ONLY SATAN SINNED ! NO, ONE THIRD OF HEAVEN WAS ON EARTH SINNING!!

6 And the angels—who did not keep their own position of authority but deserted their proper place—He has kept in everlasting shackles under gloomy darkness until the judgment of the great Day.

7 In the same way as these angels, Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them—having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after a different sort of flesh—are displayed as an example, suffering the punishment of eternal fire.
 
The_Watchers_2017

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Notice Verse 6:
6 And the angels—who did not keep their own position of authority but deserted their proper place—He has kept in everlasting shackles under gloomy darkness until the judgment of the great Day. [b] 7 In the same way as these angels, Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them—having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after a different sort of flesh—are displayed as an example, suffering the punishment of eternal fire.

And the angels < (s) angel (s) Plural!
 
The_Watchers_2017

The_Watchers_2017

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Even Peter makes it clear it was ANGEL (S) = PLURAL!
4 For if God did not spare the angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to chains of gloomy darkness to be kept until the judgment;
 
The_Watchers_2017

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LenMcM said:
Generally i agree with you, but would add the following, For the birth of Jesus, Mary a mortal was overshadowed by the Holy Spirit Luke 1:35 ,- The result was the man/God Jesus. From this and Matt 22:30 my personal belief is that there is no marriage and no sex in Heaven. I account for the offspring of fallen angels as follows. We know that humans can be possessed by demons, and I consider that if a person has caused/ allowed themselves to be possessed, then a demon is able to manipulate that persons genetic DNA chain to produce offspring. In a slightly similar way as was Jesus birth. Personally i think this is the only way a demon can reproduce. But again as you have rightly pointed out, we need to be careful to avoid being dogmatic when there is very little Scripture proof to go on. We will get our true answer in Heaven. Our present beliefs regarding this will not affect our salvation. Better to get on with ways to reach the lost.
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Excellent, well thought and written. Could not Agree More!

We do have the Hebrew:

הַנְּפִלִ֞ים הָי֣וּ בָאָ֘רֶץ֮ בַּיָּמִ֣ים הָהֵם֒ וְגַ֣ם אַֽחֲרֵי־כֵ֗ן אֲשֶׁ֨ר יָבֹ֜אוּ בְּנֵ֤י הָֽאֱלֹהִים֙ אֶל־בְּנ֣וֹת הָֽאָדָ֔ם וְיָלְד֖וּ לָהֶ֑ם הֵ֧מָּה הַגִּבֹּרִ֛ים אֲשֶׁ֥ר מֵעוֹלָ֖ם אַנְשֵׁ֥י הַשֵּֽׁם׃ {פ}
It was then, and later too, that the Nephilim appeared on earth—when divine beings cohabited with the human women, who bore them offspring. Such were the heroes of old, the men of renown.
 
SomeDisciple

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Even if BOE was true, I don't see where it says that angels have sex in heaven... in fact, it specifically says how god gave them an eternal nature rather than procreation; it was specifically not for them... and they were also sentenced to eternal darkness for coming to the earth and doing so... I have no idea how someone could read BOE, and then be like "sweet, swinger parties in heaven!"
 
Clayman

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The_Watchers_2017 said:
Excellent, well thought and written. Could not Agree More!

We do have the Hebrew:

הַנְּפִלִ֞ים הָי֣וּ בָאָ֘רֶץ֮ בַּיָּמִ֣ים הָהֵם֒ וְגַ֣ם אַֽחֲרֵי־כֵ֗ן אֲשֶׁ֨ר יָבֹ֜אוּ בְּנֵ֤י הָֽאֱלֹהִים֙ אֶל־בְּנ֣וֹת הָֽאָדָ֔ם וְיָלְד֖וּ לָהֶ֑ם הֵ֧מָּה הַגִּבֹּרִ֛ים אֲשֶׁ֥ר מֵעוֹלָ֖ם אַנְשֵׁ֥י הַשֵּֽׁם׃ {פ}
It was then, and later too, that the Nephilim appeared on earth—when divine beings cohabited with the human women, who bore them offspring. Such were the heroes of old, the men of renown.
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You tell us the superiority of the Hebrew then you give us a paraphrase into English so we can understand it, do you see the irony of this? The thing I find unsettling is that its not a literal translation but a paraphrase, its like trying to tell me the message bible is closer to Gods Word than any other translation even though it paraphrases. Im Just having one last whack I will desist from flogging the dead horse now.
 
Mem

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The_Watchers_2017 said:
Those Verses I used in the Post of mine you quoted, the Author, can also be found in many other Verses throughout the New Testament.

6 And the angels—who did not keep their own position of authority but deserted their proper place—He has kept in everlasting shackles under gloomy darkness until the judgment of the great Day.

7 In the same way as these angels, Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them—having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after a different sort of flesh—are displayed as an example, suffering the punishment of eternal fire



14 It was also about these that Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of his holy ones,

15 to execute judgment on all and to convict all the ungodly of all their deeds of ungodliness that they have committed in such an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things that ungodly sinners have spoken against him.”

16 These are grumblers, malcontents, following their own sinful desires; they are loud-mouthed boasters, showing favoritism to gain advantage.



4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to chains of gloomy darkness to be kept until the judgment;

^
Those represent 2 New Testament Books

And that doesn't include Luke, Galatians, and Hebrews, where more Verses are in the New Testament that are originally found in the same Book where the Scriptures I already provided in my Post to CS1. Where those Verses are found, so are these I provided in THIS Post, including offering up there's more elsewhere.


So, it is indeed True!
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I addressed the fallacy employed in coming to the conclusion that the sin of the angels was having sex because the sons of God married women, I just can't remember what it's called exactly.
The fallacious argument's logic follows along the same erroneous reasoning of, "...since both apples and oranges end up at the grocery store, all apples are orange because it's proven that oranges are, indeed, orange."
 
Mem

Mem

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...and the argument that both apples and oranges are fruits does not mean apples are oranges either.
 
JohnB

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Mem said:
Why should we assume Nephilim are all giants? just wondering
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The Nephilim (/ˈnɛfɪˌlɪm/; Hebrew: נְפִילִים Nəfīlīm) are mysterious beings or people in the Hebrew Bible who are described as being large and strong. The word Nephilim is loosely translated as giants in many translations of the Hebrew Bible,
 
The_Watchers_2017

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CS1 said:
she is a liberal theologian and more on the book of Enoch.
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I am aware of that, but that has nothing to do with her views towards Genesis 6.
It's really odd, there are 4 major Scholars today who are not Christian, with 2 even claiming to be Agnostic/Atheist. This one we're discussing is obviously Yiddish.
 
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