Nonresistance

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Evmur

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Feb 28, 2021
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#41
What are your thoughts on Matthew 5:38-45:

38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: 39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also. 41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain .42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away. 43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. 44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; 45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

For years I have believed similar to most Anabaptist groups, that these verses teach that we may not use force to defend ourselves.

I've been questioning this interpretation lately because of a few different reasons. It doesn't seem to line up with God's character to do nothing when you see someone about to get hurt, or to allow someone to violate you any way they choose. (You may think this extreme, but some take it that far.)

But Jesus obviously changed SOMETHING in the above verses from how things were done up to that point!

What does Jesus mean here?
It's tough. I have not found the answer to this one. There have been times when I certainly behaved is the prescribed way and there have been times when I didn't, and times when God intervened to prevent escalation.

Those not under grace are still under law. This is not only national laws but international laws and Paul calls soldiers/policemen servants of God.
 

Evmur

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#42
Jesus explained to His disciples WHY indeed He wanted them to purchase a sword.

"Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. 37For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end."

The Jewish preachers were teaching in their synagogues that the Messiah/ Christ would conquer the empire and deliver Israel from the Romans. Then there would be peace and no more violence. The reference from Isaiah that is quoted out of context at the Communist United Nations building with the graven image of the gun with twisted barrel reminds me of how they twist scriptures and wish to disarm the world so they "have a monopoly of force." Communism is the official doctrine of the U.N.
Communism only is realized under enforced socialism which disarms the peasants. When everyone is weak and become victims, then the communist Oligarchs/ dictators are strong. That's why they did not reference Joel 3:10.

"Beat your plowshares into swords, and your pruninghooks into spears: let the weak say, I am strong."

They reject the Bible as the very Word of God. Even the Devil's own servants will quote Scripture as it suits their agenda.
This is their pet verse from Isaiah.

And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

This verse is about the Lord's reign on earth.
They leave the LORD out of it because they want to be the god of the earth. They want to control all nations as the United Nations. A united tower of Babel so to speak. That's why the Devil wants the nations, the people to be disarmed. He cares nothing of God's people.
Does the Devil desire God's people to be protected from his lawless heathen thieves, rapists and murderers?
Of course not. He wants his own people to destroy God's people.

Why does Jesus want His people to have the means to defend their own lives?
Is it so He can turn around and say to them, Just joking, faked you out, I really want you to allow murderers to slaughter rape and pillage your families?
That's the interpretation of many well meaning pastors. They teach that Jesus was telling Peter to get rid of his sword and disregard His previous command.
He said Nothing of the sort. John 18:10 Jesus said,

"Then Simon Peter having a sword drew it, and smote the high priest's servant, and cut off his right ear. The servant's name was Malchus. .Then said Jesus unto Peter, Put up thy sword into the sheath: the cup which my Father hath given me, shall I not drink it?"

Note that Jesus didn't tell Peter to turn his sword over to the "authorities." Nor did Jesus say to pound it into a hoe for gardening. He wasn't some lost preacher telling Peter that's
not really what I told you before "in the original Greek. "


"Then said Jesus unto Peter, Put up thy sword into the sheath...."

He told him to reholster his weapon.
Peter misused his weapon. That was not Jesus ' purpose in the command for Peter to go around protecting Jesus from the cup of His sacrifice.

Why did He tell Peter, Put up thy sword into the sheath
"the cup which my Father hath given me, shall I not drink it?"

The cup was the mock trial of mocking, ripping the flesh from His back which would carry the burdens of all of our sins as Jesus hung from the cross amongst" the transgressors, " one on either side. See Luke 22

"And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end."

That was Jesus ' cup. We don't work our way to heaven. He finished the work.

As well meaning as Peter was, he did not understand yet why Jesus asked him about the sword earlier. It wasn't to prevent Christ from paying for the sins of the world. Many well meaning preachers miss not only the part about the sword, but more importantly the part about the finality of Christ's payment for sin. It has ended. It was finished. We can add nothing to that work.

Once Jesus did pay for our sins, the world continued to be a very violent place didn't it?
Is it not violent today?
When Christ returns, He will conquer Satan's armies and establish His kingdom of peace.
Until then, it will only get worse as we see the day approaching. His first time here, He did not come to bring peace.
He came to offer salvation from hell.

God forbid, but if some horrible person took your life today, EricH, are you 100% sure that you would be in heaven?
In short this teaching is a KINGDOM teaching, I was going to say that but then considered the ensuing row.

The kingdom is not yet manifest. ... If the Jews had received their Lord the kingdom would have become manifest.
 

HealthAndHappiness

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Jul 7, 2022
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Almost Heaven West Virginia
#43
In short this teaching is a KINGDOM teaching, I was going to say that but then considered the ensuing row.

The kingdom is not yet manifest. ... If the Jews had received their Lord the kingdom would have become manifest.
That is a very important distinction, especially considering the time we are in when the Devil is bringing hordes of people into America, most of which are in gross poverty and from cultures where crime is normal. Satan used Rockefeller and others to establish the modern tower of babel in NY NY. That one example with the stated model for the world depicted by the twisted barrel barrel should give pacifists pause to consider which side they are on with their religious view. Jesus did not command those disciples with their swords to turn them into the soldiers or to pound them into hoes for gardening. He told them to sell something they needed for something they would need even more if they had no money.
He surely did not establish His Kingdom yet. That's why we are told to pray for it to come.
Yet there will be those who wrest the scriptures to their own destruction.
 

HopeinHim98

Well-known member
Mar 16, 2023
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#45
That is a very important distinction, especially considering the time we are in when the Devil is bringing hordes of people into America, most of which are in gross poverty and from cultures where crime is normal. Satan used Rockefeller and others to establish the modern tower of babel in NY NY. That one example with the stated model for the world depicted by the twisted barrel barrel should give pacifists pause to consider which side they are on with their religious view. Jesus did not command those disciples with their swords to turn them into the soldiers or to pound them into hoes for gardening. He told them to sell something they needed for something they would need even more if they had no money.
He surely did not establish His Kingdom yet. That's why we are told to pray for it to come.
Yet there will be those who wrest the scriptures to their own destruction.
I've heard it taught that the kingdom is the church. And therefore that's why the the church shouldn't be involved in politics, war, and so forth. Are you saying the kingdom is the millennial kingdom?
 

HealthAndHappiness

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2022
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Almost Heaven West Virginia
#46
I've heard it taught that the kingdom is the church. And therefore that's why the the church shouldn't be involved in politics, war, and so forth. Are you saying the kingdom is the millennial kingdom?
20"And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: 21Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you. 22And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see it. 23And they shall say to you, See here; or, see there: go not after them, nor follow them. 24For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day. 25But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation."
Luke 17

Christ's physical Kingdom will be established when He returns and pours out His wrath.
After that will be peace for a thousand years.

We know that the Jews were wrongly taught by the pharisees and Sadducees that they would recognize the Messiah by the wrong prophesies. Jesus constantly rebuked the preachers who misled the people. He didn't come to establish a kingdom of peace.

"34Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword."

At that time in history He came and preached, was rejected and fulfilled the Father's will to die for all the sins of the world.