Remember Lot's Wife

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cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
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i wonder if they didn't have a plan.
The angels tell Lot they can't destroy the city until he reaches Zoar. how long does this take? is he buying time for his wife to try to reach their children?
My thoughts exactly bro.
This tragically negative judgmental assessment of the persons (the Lot clan) enduring this terrible ordeal is pretty outrageous. Founded and rooted in sinful hearts IMO.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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You must be thinking of the story of Esther. We can't mix and mingle Bible stories like drinks at a bar. These are real historical events (not to be confused with the Christian Fiction that some pastors like to entertain their congregations with on Sunday morning.)
It is entirely unreasonable to think she doesn't know that by turning back to Sodom she is almost certainly going to die.

The fiction is that she is knowingly ans willingly for all practical purposescommitting suicide for a garlic bread sandwich and some new lipstick - but that's essentially the explanation you're sticking with even though the Bible says nothing of the sort.

God makes her a pillar: when is a pillar in scripture ever something bad?
God covers her in salt: when is salt in scripture a symbyof evil?

He could have done anything at all but He chooses a pillar of salt. salt, which does not burn. a pillar, which is a strong foundation, a firm and lasting architectural feature. why?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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My thoughts exactly bro.
This tragically negative judgmental assessment of the persons (the Lot clan) enduring this terrible ordeal is pretty outrageous. Founded and rooted in sinful hearts IMO.
It's way easier to scare sheep with a superficial gloss of the text than it is to teach them the profound truths being illustrated in the deep meanings of this amazing Book
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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The text does not say any of this about her, and it makes no sense at all unless she is a complete idiot. just moments
before this her home is surrounded by all the men of the city and they are promising to torture and murder her on sight.
Dearest post... the text does not say that, either... .:unsure:
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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Dearest post... the text does not say that, either... .:unsure:
Genesis 19:9
And they said, "Stand back!"
Then they said, "This one came in to stay [here,] and he keeps acting as a judge; now we will deal worse with you than with them." So they pressed hard against the man Lot, and came near to break down the door.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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Genesis 19:9
And they said, "Stand back!"
Then they said, "This one came in to stay [here,] and he keeps acting as a judge; now we will deal worse with
you than with them
." So they pressed hard against the man Lot, and came near to break down the door.
Yeah, the text does not say they are promising to torture and murder her on sight.
 

Bruce_Leiter

Active member
Feb 17, 2023
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28
And He said to the disciples,
The days will come when you will long to see one of the days of the Son of Man, and you will not see it. They will say to you, ‘Look there! Look here!’ Do not go away, and do not run after them. For just like the lightning, when it flashes out of one part of the sky, shines to the other part of the sky, so will the Son of Man be in His day. But first He must suffer many things and be rejected by this generation.
And just as it happened in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man: they were eating, they were drinking, they were marrying, they were being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all. It was the same as happened in the days of Lot: they were eating, they were drinking, they were buying, they were selling, they were planting, they were building; but on the day that Lot went out from Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all. It will be just the same on the day that the Son of Man is revealed.
On that day, the one who is on the housetop and whose goods are in the house must not go down to take them out; and likewise the one who is in the field must not turn back. Remember Lot’s wife. Whoever seeks to keep his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it. I tell you, on that night there will be two in one bed; one will be taken and the other will be left. There will be two women grinding at the same place; one will be taken and the other will be left. Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other will be left.
And answering they said to Him,
“Where, Lord?”
And He said to them,
Where the body is, there also the vultures will be gathered.
(Luke 17:22-37)


why Lot's wife?
in this specific context, why Lot's wife?
what is it about her that we should remember?


something specific to her, specific to what these Hebrew men would have known immediately about her, right?
not something that could have been said about anyone else, but something about Lot's wife in particular?


what is it about Lot's wife we should remember, and why?
in the context of what Christ is saying and who He's saying it to?
The following verse explains it. She sought to seek her life and lost it.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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Yeah, the text does not say they are promising to torture and murder her on sight.
What do these men do to strangers that enter the city? is it painful? do the strangers survive?

See Judges 19:25-28

so what is 'worse' than what happens to the strangers? that is the threat to Lot and his household.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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she did exactly the opposite.
she went towards almost certain death, and was preserved in salt.
I find it difficult to interpret being turned into a pillar of salt as having her life saved.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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What do these men do to strangers that enter the city? is it painful? do the strangers survive?

See Judges 19:25-28

so what is 'worse' than what happens to the strangers? that is the threat to Lot and his household.
Dearest post... the text does not say what you claimed it did.

Though I do find it odd, you start a post by saying the text does not say something,
and then procede to claim the text says something it plainly does not. That is all.
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
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The text does not say any of this about her, and it makes no sense at all unless she is a complete idiot.
Makes no sense that anyone neglect such great salvation. But...
It happens... a Lot.
Remember Mrs. Lot.
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
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Luke 17:
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
31 In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.
32 Remember Lot's wife.
33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.

The life of Lots's wife was not preserved by fire and brimstone anymore that the rest of the Sodomite lives were. Her heart returned to Sodom. She did exactly as she was warned not to do and sad consequences ensued...

Genesis 19:17
“And it came to pass, when they had brought them forth abroad, that he said, Escape for thy life; look not behind thee, neither stay thou in all the plain; escape to the mountain, lest thou be consumed.”

Lot's wife is a picture of disobedience and destruction, not preservation and salvation. What is preserved is the clear lesson that we are to leave the old life behind and not look back.
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
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This disobedience was similar to the INTENTIONAL disobedience of Adam, who knew salvation was certain. It was in fact a self-sacrificing disobedience. I wonder if Lot was doing something similar in his disobedience as well? I mean it's not like the whole region of the plain was not totally wrecked and unlivable.
:( ...And here we go again. Always looking for a slick new angle.

Let's get back to basics:
Man's heart is deceitfully wicked and he is bent on sinning.
God is good, merciful, gracious and kind.
Let's choose God and His Way, not man and the way of his adopted father, the Devil.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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I find it difficult to interpret being turned into a pillar of salt as having her life saved.
being supernaturally removed from the impending destruction of the wicked city by the hand of the angels of God typifies salvation. that seems extremely straightforward. so this becomes a story about the security of salvation. if we glance over our shoulder once are we damned? do we lose His promise so easily? then what about Lot, who also disobeyed?

God could have chosen anything, but He specifically chose to cover her in salt.
He specifically chose not to allow here to return to the city doomed to destruction.
we ought to figure out why, and what these things mean.

we should look at other uses of salt in scripture to find out whether it is a symbol of evil and judgement or of preservation and purification:


You shall make of these an incense, a compound according to the art of the perfumer, salted, pure, and holy.
(Exodus 30:35)

And every offering of your grain offering you shall season with salt; you shall not allow the salt of the covenant of your God to be lacking from your grain offering. With all your offerings you shall offer salt.
(Leviticus 2:13)
All the heave offerings of the holy things, which the children of Israel offer to the Lord, I have given to you and your sons and daughters with you as an ordinance forever; it is a covenant of salt forever before the Lord with you and your descendants with you.
(Numbers 18:19)
And he said, “Bring me a new bowl, and put salt in it.” So they brought it to him.
Then he went out to the source of the water, and cast in the salt there, and said, “Thus says the Lord: ‘I have healed this water; from it there shall be no more death or barrenness.’ ”

(2 Kings 2:20-21)

Should you not know that the Lord God of Israel gave the dominion over Israel to David forever, to him and his sons, by a covenant of salt?
(2 Chronicles 13:5)

And whatever they need—young bulls, rams, and lambs for the burnt offerings of the God of heaven, wheat, salt, wine, and oil, according to the request of the priests who are in Jerusalem—let it be given them day by day without fail
(Ezra 6:9)

Can flavorless food be eaten without salt?
(Job 6:6)

As for your nativity, on the day you were born your navel cord was not cut, nor were you washed in water to cleanse you; you were not rubbed with salt nor wrapped in swaddling cloths.
(Ezekiel 16:4)

When you offer them before the Lord, the priests shall throw salt on them, and they will offer them up as a burnt offering to the Lord.
(Ezekiel 43:24)

You are the salt of the earth; but if the salt loses its flavor, how shall it be seasoned? It is then good for nothing but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot by men.
(Matthew 5:13)

For everyone will be seasoned with fire, and every sacrifice will be seasoned with salt.
Salt is good, but if the salt loses its flavor, how will you season it? Have salt in yourselves, and have peace with one another.

(Mark 9:49-50)

Let your speech always be with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer each one.

(Colossians 4:6)



now is salt a good thing? Jesus explicitly says yes, it is.
it is required for every sacrifice; it is a purifier, it is a preservative, it brings out flavor in what has none, it is emblematic of the covenant with David which is the birth and kingship of the Lord Jesus Christ.


so i find it difficult to see how God making Lot's wife a pillar of salt is anything other than a good outcome for her.



all these things are extremely relevant to why God chose specifically to cover Lot's wife with salt instead of allowing her to return to the city.


now we should also do the same with "pillar" and see what we find.
and we should see where the Bible speaks of supernaturally removing people from danger, and whether that is symbolic of their salvation or of their eternal doom.
and we should see whether those whom God removes from the place destined for destruction are secure or not.

this narrative is not a simple story about wishing you could finish the half-eaten garlicbread you left in your fridge.
it is a testimony of Christ, of salvation, of the tribulation, of His coming again in judgement, and of His bringing us to dwell with Him forever.



 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
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Remember her in a positive reaffirming way.
There is nothing positive and reaffirming about disobedience and it's consequence.
What we have here in the lesson of Lot's wfe is a WARNING.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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The following verse explains it. She sought to seek her life and lost it.
which part of turning back to a city you know God is about to utterly destroy, where literally every man in the whole place has just surrounded your house threatening to brutalize you, sounds like "seeking to preserve your life" ???

bro that explanation makes no sense whatsoever.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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There is nothing positive and reaffirming about disobedience and it's consequence.
What we have here in the lesson of Lot's wfe is a WARNING.
you are missing the point that of the 14 times Christ says to remember something literally every one of them is given as a positive encouragement; not one of them is a threat of damnation.

but you think this is breaking his pattern of 7's?
because you think Lot's wife really wanted some quail stew from her favorite Sodomite café so she threw here life away for it knowing she'd never even get the chance to eat it?
that makes zero sense.


bro she is a mother. she had children in that city.
ask your mom if she had one chance, whether she would try to save you or try to save some leftover casserole.

then poke around in your Bible and see of God looks kindly on seeking to save the lost, disregarding your own safety for their sake.