Christ kept the Law of Moses, so....

Irrelevant since I'm not claiming that righteousness comes by the Law.

Irrelevant since I'm not claiming that justification come by the Law.

cv5 said:

Promoting unbiblical heresies are you? Looks like you are the lawless one around here.

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No heresies here. Galatians 3:24 is Truth.

Amen. I'm under Christ.

cv5 said:

And here is my status: a son reborn of the Spirit of Jesus, consequently emancipated from the law, slavery to sin and death.

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Paul's admonition for the saved person here is to resist sin. Since all sin is defined as the transgression of the Law Paul taught that the Law is holy and just and good (Rom 7:12) for by the Law we can know what sin is (Rom 7:7). The 'new-law' Christian excuses themselves from keeping God's commandments (eg. Deu 22:5, and others) because, as they say, they've been freed from the curse of having to obey God and keep his commandments. For many in the 'new-law' camp their attitude is that Jesus came and died for them so that they can continue living like the devil, with a clear conscience. Paul did not see it this way (Acts 25:8) because the Spirit of Christ which was in him, and also in me, agrees with the Words of Christ in Mat 5:17-20.

Amen to that!

Amen to that!

Umm. Not sure what paying secular taxes has to do with this discussion.

Amen! And three verses later John confirms the place of the Law - "...sin is the transgression of the Law." (1st John 3:4).


Amen to that!


It is unclear what your point is in this post but much of it seems to be off topic.

I am justified by Faith in Jesus Christ. Not sure where you got the idea that I'm asserting anything else.

The Law if for the knowledge of sin and convicts both the unsaved and the wayward saved person of their sin, to lead them to repentance. If you don't care for righteous behaviour then this is a sure sign that something's not right.

"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." (Mat 5:17-18)

"While he answered for himself, Neither against the law of the Jews, neither against the temple, nor yet against Caesar, have I offended any thing at all." (Act 25:8)

"Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good." (Rom 7:12)

First, I hope you mean after we have been saved by grace through faith in our daily lives in the power of Jesus' resurrection.

Second, Jesus fulfilled the law perfectly on the cross by replacing our poor following of it with his perfect obedience.

Third, he did away with the external form of the national aspect of the law like unclean foods and animal sacrifices.

Fourth, Jesus and Paul continue the inner principles of the law with the intentions of our need to gain daily cleansing from the old, sinful nature remaining in us, which are the main ideas of the unclean foods and the sacrifices. For example, in the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus equates the actions of adultery or sexual immorality with lust and murder with anger.

Nehemia Gordon on Bible Questions and Answers

Do you know anyone like this? This is what Jesus was telling His audience when He said "do not do as they do" Matthew 23:1-3


Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Twisting Scripture
A reknowned Jewish Rabbi and teacher, Moses Maimonides in the 12th century, went
so far as to say, dogmatically, “If there are 1000 prophets, all of them of the stature of Elijah
and Elisha, giving a certain interpretation, you shall ‘incline after the majority’ (Exodus 23 :2)
and the law is according to the 1001 rabbis, not according to the 1000 venerable prophets.”
He went on, “Thus God did not permit us to learn from the prophets, only from the
Rabbis who are men of logic and reason” (see Nehemia Gordon, page 84).
Can you believe it?
The incident of Rabbi Eliezer in the Babylonian Talmud, Baba Metsia 59b holds a central
place in modern Rabbinic theology. According to the story, Rabbi Eliezer was the greatest of the
Rabbinical sages of his time. One day he was engaged in a debate over some minute points of the
rabbinic law, and he brought forth every imaginable argument to support his stand. But the other
rabbis were not convinced. He grew very frustrated. They were just hardheaded, stubborn,
intransigent, and unwilling to bend or listen to reason. In desperation, he invoked a miracle, “If I
am right, let the trees prove it!”

There was a great rumble, and all the trees of an orchard outside their meeting place were
uprooted and began flying through the air. The rabbis retorted, “We do not listen to trees!”
Eliezer then cried out, “If I am right, let the rivers prove it!” The rabbis ran outside,
and saw the great river begin to flow backwards. They were very impressed, but stonily replied,
“We do not listen to rivers!”
So the rabbi exclaimed, “If I am right, let the walls of the academy prove it!” The walls
of the building where they were sitting began to cave in and crumble. Again the rabbis
obdurately replied, “We do not listen to walls.”
Finally, Eliezer shouted, “If I am right, let Heaven prove it!” A voice from heaven then
thundered, “Why do you dispute with Rabbi Eliezer, seeing that the law agrees with him?” The
rabbis were still unconvinced, and declared, “Sorry, we do not listen to Heaven!”
Thus modern rabbis conclude that the interpretations of the rabbis supercede the direct
decrees of God Himself in heaven!
Rabbinic theologians, based on this apocryphal incident, claim that any prophet who
prophesies that the Rabbis are wrong on even a minor point of interpretation, must be executed.

END OF STORY FROM NEHEMIA GORDON

Luke 23:21 But they cried, saying, Crucify him, crucify him.

It would seem unlikely that the women would have gone to the market for spices to anoint His body, while He was on the cross.
People did not know what would happen for certain. Even those around Him taunted Him to come down and said He saved others but cannot save Himself. They watched while He was on the cross. Once He died nightfall was approaching and He had to be in the tomb before then so they would not be breaking the Unleavened Bread Sabbath.

On the Shroud of Turin many things can be made out around His body. There were flowers around Him that only grow around Jerusalem and bloom in the days around the crucifixion. There were coins over His eyes that date the Shroud to the time of His crucifixion. He was crucified outside the walls of the city where they likely gathered flowers to place on His body in the Shroud.

After the Thursday Unleavened Bread Sabbath which ended at sundown, their first opportunity to purchase and prepare the spices was on Friday. Then they had to keep the weekly Sabbath on Saturday. Their first opportunity to go to the tomb with the spices was Sunday or after sunset on Saturday. They would have likely wanted to go earlier but the Feast day and Sabbath prevented them.

The best part is that they no longer needed the spices since He had risen before they arrived at the tomb. Left behind was His burial linin now known as the Shroud of Turin with a detailed record of how His body was placed in the tomb and many items that date the Shroud to the time of His death. The flowers shown on the Shroud place it in Jerusalem which is the only place some of those grow. The pollens on the Shroud are further evidence. The position of His body show He had been hanging on a cross for some time. The wounds verify the Gospel accounts.

There are many good vids on yt about the Shroud explaining all these things. Others have pointed out that His body was becoming alive again in the flash of light that left the image on the cloth. Items appear to be falling through His body as He rose through the cloth. He left us with a picture of His crucifixion, death and resurrection so we would believe.

This is awesome research that you have provided again. It is amazing proof of the account in the Gospels being true. Thank you very much.

Thank you for your comments, although they were delivered in a rather condescending way.

We need to establish sound doctrine indeed! That is precisely what this discussion is about. But, to be clear, sound doctrine is established by Scripture, not by a state of one's heart. Now, if what you mean to say is that a love for, and, obedience to God's commandments comes naturally to the born again believer then to this I can say - Amen!

I've never asserted that Salvation is merited nor maintained by following God's commandments, so I'm not sure why you had to include this statement... ??

No underestimating here. I fully trust in God to complete this job in me. But this is off topic. The discussion is about the place of the Law in the Christian's life.

Again, condescending and misplaced. I've not asserted any such thing. You need to get back to the discussion at hand.

Firstly, I am in agreement with you about how God looks upon a man dressing as a woman. Not to be contentious but just to illustrate a point more salient to the discussion, the Scripture references you've quoted do not address the matter of cross dressing and as such hold no conviction over the cross dressing man. God DOES explicitly state the matter in the Torah (See Deu 2:5). And so here I illustrate an example of the shortcoming of the 'new law' approach.

The Law referred to by Christ (Mat 5:17-20), by Paul (Rom 7:7; Act 25:8, et al), by John (1 Joh 3:4) and by other NT writers in numerous places is found in the Torah.

The women being delayed from anointing His body with the spices was likely by Divine design. His body lay undisturbed for the 3 days in the tomb after He was placed there. Everything was preserved from the point He was taken down from the cross and laid on the linin and arranged with the tell-tale flowers and evidence of crucifixion. No one disturbed His body or the covering till He was raised.

That allowed for the perfect negative 3d hologram image on the Shroud when the Father raised Him with a flash of glory. The evidence of His suffering, beating, crown of thorns, crucifixion wounds, spear in His side, position of His body revealing He hung on the cross was all preserved for the image to be recorded on the Shroud. The timing of the two Sabbaths that prevented them from tending to His body seems intentional so He would lay untouched for 3 days till He was raised, which is revealed in the image on the Shroud.

The technology to show the 3d imaging and hologram on the Shroud has just recently been developed. That is likely by Divine design as well to reveal to the world that the Gospels and Scriptures are true and all about the Man portrayed on the Shroud, Yeshua the Messiah.

Psalm 119:176

I am lost like a slain Lamb. Seek your Servant for I do not forget Your commandments.

Including the promise of life in the law to Him that if He gave His life to save us, in obedience to the Father and the law that He would live and be raised to life again.

Jewish customs they never anointed bodies and 3 days would be far too late in any event.

As to the Turin shroud - I’m sure you are aware of the controversy surrounding it (carbon dating, blood spatter, broken bone etc)- in any event One cloth would not be used specially if they used spices they would use multiple layers and evidence in John 19 & 20 points to more than one cloth 'stripes'.

Whatever the custom was with the spices is what is referred to. Anoint may not be the right word. Plus His body had not been cleaned which may have been part of their custom. The evidence on the Shroud shows He was still bleeding when placed in the cloth. There is the blood evidence on the Shroud as well which was not mentioned before.

As to the carbon dating. The sample that was supplied for the carbon dating was from a part of the Shroud that had been repaired by Nuns some time after it was damaged in a church fire many centuries ago. The carbon dating for that sample lines up with the time the repairs were made after the fire damaged it.

Yes, 3 days was too late but it was their only opportunity because of the Holy days. There was also the Roman guards to contend with who restricted any access to His body till at least after the 3 days past to quell any rumors of Him raising from the dead. Then the guards were paid off to spread the rumor that His followers stole the body at some point to claim He was raised after He was actually raised. The Gospels describe that.

Matthew 27 HNV

55 Many women were there watching from afar, who had followed Yeshua from Galilee, serving Him. 56 Among them were Miriam Magdalene, Miriam the mother of Jacob and Yosi, and the mother of the sons of Zebedee.
57 When evening had come, a rich man from Arimathaea named Joseph, who himself was also Yeshua’s disciple, came. 58 This man went to Pilate and asked for Yeshua’s body. Then Pilate commanded the body to be given up. 59 Joseph took the body and wrapped it in a clean linen cloth 60 and laid it in his own new tomb, which he had cut out in the rock. Then he rolled a large stone against the door of the tomb, and departed. 61 Miriam Magdalene was there, and the other Miriam, sitting opposite the tomb.
62 Now on the next day, which was the day after the Preparation Day, the chief priests and the Pharisees were gathered together to Pilate, 63 saying, “Sir, we remember what that deceiver said while He was still alive: ‘After three days I will rise again.’ 64 Command therefore that the tomb be made secure until the third day, lest perhaps his disciples come at night and steal Him away, and tell the people, ‘He is risen from the dead;’ and the last deception will be worse than the first.”
65 Pilate said to them, “You have a guard. Go, make it as secure as you can.” 66 So they went with the guard and made the tomb secure, sealing the stone.

Mark 15

40 There were also women watching from afar, among whom were both Miriam Magdalene and Miriam the mother of Jacob the less and of Yosi, and Shalom; 41 who, when He was in Galilee, followed Him and served Him; and many other women who came up with Him to Jerusalem.
42 When evening had now come, because it was the Preparation Day, that is, the day before the Sabbath, 43 Joseph of Arimathaea, a prominent council member who also himself was looking for YAH’s Kingdom, came. He boldly went in to Pilate, and asked for Yeshua’s body. 44 Pilate was surprised to hear that He was already dead; and summoning the centurion, he asked him whether He had been dead long. 45 When he found out from the centurion, he granted the body to Joseph. 46 He bought a linen cloth, and taking him down, wrapped him in the linen cloth and laid him in a tomb which had been cut out of a rock. He rolled a stone against the door of the tomb. 47 Miriam Magdalene and Miriam the mother of Yosi, saw where he was laid.

Luke

48 All the multitudes that came together to see this, when they saw the things that were done, returned home beating their breasts. 49 All His acquaintances and the women who followed with Him from Galilee stood at a distance, watching these things.
50 Behold, there was a man named Joseph, who was a member of the council, a good and righteous man 51 (he had not consented to their counsel and deed), from Arimathaea, a city of the Judeans, who was also waiting for YAH’s Kingdom. 52 This man went to Pilate, and asked for Yeshua’s body. 53 He took it down and wrapped it in a linen cloth, and laid Him in a tomb that was cut in stone, where no one had ever been laid. 54 It was the day of the Preparation, and the Sabbath was drawing near. 55 The women who had come with Him out of Galilee followed after, and saw the tomb and how His body was laid. 56 They returned and prepared spices and ointments. On the Sabbath they rested according to the commandment.

John

38 After these things, Joseph of Arimathaea, being a disciple of Yeshua, but secretly for fear of the Judeans, asked of Pilate that he might take away Yeshua’s body. Pilate gave him permission. He came therefore and took away His body. 39 Nicodemus, who at first came to Yeshua by night, also came bringing a mixture of myrrh and aloes, about a hundred Roman pounds. 40 So they took Yeshua’s body, and bound it in linen cloths with the spices, as the custom of the Judeans is to bury. 41 Now in the place where He was crucified there was a garden. In the garden was a new tomb in which no man had ever yet been laid. 42 Then, because of the Judeans’ Preparation Day (for the tomb was near at hand), they laid Yeshua there.

The New Covenant laws and commandments are written on our heart, though there is much to learn from what is written in scripture.


In my heart I know it is wrong for a man to dress up like a woman for the purpose identifying with a woman to have sexual relations with another man.


If you believe in your heart and mind that it is right for a man to dress up as a woman for purpose of identifying with the gender of a female and to engage in sexual relations with another man then you may want to consider that you need to repent.



We know it’s an abomination to God for a man to wear women’s clothing.


A woman shall not wear anything that pertains to a man, nor shall a man put on a woman’s garment, for all who do so are an abomination to the LORD your God.
Deuteronomy 22:5


But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelation 22:8





JPT

The New Covenant means refreshed; renewed.


The Abrahamic Covenant was Renewed.


The Lord Jesus Christ made covenant with Abraham.

The law of Moses was added temporarily until Messiah should come and fulfill.

The Lord Renewed the Covenant with His own blood.





JLB