Christ kept the Law of Moses, so....

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Cameron143

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Mar 1, 2022
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Jesus is the solution.
But that does not make the Law of Liberty void.
Because Jesus died we can be freed from the debt, penalty, handwriting, of the law, but the law is still a guide to help us not sin.

If the law that holds us guilty is void, Jesus did not need to die.

Hebrews explains that Jesus is the better sacrifice (only sacrifice), the high priest, etc. So these laws that deal with sacrifice and sanctuary attonment are made void by Christ filling the roles in a better way.

God does not change and the laws that define sin are still in place today.
I love the law. You are preaching to the choir.

But we aren't going to keep the law in our own strength. So we better learn to live, yet not us, but Christ lives within us.
 

Truth01

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May 7, 2022
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We keep the law because we love God and we know that it hurts him when we dont. We dont keep the law because we believe that doing so will give us a right to enter heaven. If you love me, keep my commandments. Jesus spent the last three years of his life teaching people that it is important to keep the law. Why would he spend so much time and effort doing this, knowing that he didn't have a lot of time left on earth, if the message he was preaching would become void after his death?
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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We keep the law because we love God and we know that it hurts him when we dont. We dont keep the law because we believe that doing so will give us a right to enter heaven. If you love me, keep my commandments. Jesus spent the last three years of his life teaching people that it is important to keep the law. Why would he spend so much time and effort doing this, knowing that he didn't have a lot of time left on earth, if the message he was preaching would become void after his death?
You don’t keep the law… period. You delude yourself if you think you do.

When was the last time you attended the temple for one of the thrice-yearly mandatory assemblies? Never, because there is no temple. When did you last get your pimples checked by a priest? Never, because there are no priests. It is utterly impossible to keep the law and has been since 70 AD.
 
Oct 31, 2015
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I appreciate you making the distinction. Most don't understand the difference. The law of Christ is the flip side of the coin of the law of Moses. Rather than thou shalt not, it is merely thou shalt. It is keeping the righteousness of the law.
In salvation, not only are our sins laid upon Jesus, but His righteousness is imputed to us. Both are necessary. Not only is it necessary for a payment be made for our sins, but the righteousness due God from our lack of obedience need be given.
The law of Moses still possesses great value in our society. Just as it served to remind Israelites of proper behavior before God, it continues to do the same for those who are still educated in them.

There is value in reading and studying all the scriptures.


However, we must keep in mind that the law of Moses was the dividing wall that separated Jew and Gentile.


For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, Ephesians 2:14-15




JPT
 
Oct 31, 2015
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So much for Sola Scriptura, eih?

And therein lies the problem. Many "Christian" churches are embracing the LGBTQ practices precisely BECAUSE new-law Christians can not point to a written printed authority that anyone can get their hands on which explicitly prohibits these behaviors.

The Uniting Church of Australia is one such church, with 670,000 adherents, and it teaches "love" not Mosaic Law, EXACTLY as do many new-law Christians in this thread. They've got "the law" written on their hearts too. You can't tell them they're wrong because you're using the same authority as they are using - "My heart says it's ok."

"To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them." (Isa 8:20)

There is value in reading and studying all the scriptures.


However, we must keep in mind that the law of Moses was the dividing wall that separated Jew and Gentile.


For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, Ephesians 2:14-15


We don’t put people to death for cooking on the Sabbath.


We don’t sacrifice animals for our sins.






JPT
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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There is value in reading and studying all the scriptures.


However, we must keep in mind that the law of Moses was the dividing wall that separated Jew and Gentile.


For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, Ephesians 2:14-15




JPT
It's a good point, but haven't the Gentiles become a law unto themselves having obeyed from the heart?
 
Oct 31, 2015
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It's a good point, but haven't the Gentiles become a law unto themselves having obeyed from the heart?
Yes. Having obeyed from the heart.


His law and commandments are written on the born again believer’s heart and mind; the law and commandments of the New Covenant.

Not the laws of commandments contained in ordinances of the law of Moses.


“Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the LORD. Jeremiah 31:31





JPT
 

Truth01

Active member
May 7, 2022
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You don’t keep the law… period. You delude yourself if you think you do.

When was the last time you attended the temple for one of the thrice-yearly mandatory assemblies? Never, because there is no temple. When did you last get your pimples checked by a priest? Never, because there are no priests. It is utterly impossible to keep the law and has been since 70 AD.
There are different laws in the bible. Some were health laws, which we still keep a lot of to a greater or lesser extent today. Others were laws that pointed to the coming of christ which were fulfilled when he came. You should be able to see that we still keep health laws from that time even though Christ has come. Eg quarantining persons and animals sick with unknown diseases. The laws to be fulfilled were answered, or filled by Christs death. For example, slaughtering a lamb to gain forgiveness of sins was a law pointing to Christ that would become fulfilled when Christ would come in person and die for us. This was clearly fulfilled by Christs death. Then there is the immutable law which was the ten commandments. The ten commandments were not laws that were created to be fulfilled. So Christs death could not make them irrelevant. Christ spent his life here preaching continually that people should repent of their sins and live a life in the order of these ten commandments. Why would he do such a thing when he had relatively very little time with us here in the flesh. In revelation keeping the law is a characteristic described of those that will be saved. Note that keeping the law (ten commandments)does not save you, but once you have accepted Jesus and recieved the holy spirit, a work begins in you that leads you eventually to a state where you are in the order of the ten commandments.
 

SimpleMan

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Jun 7, 2023
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I've heard other sincere believers say that since Jesus kept the Laws of Moses we should keep them or at least try and somehow that is following Him. Is this what Jesus was talking about in these passages?



Mathew 5:17-20 Jesus said, Do not think that I came to destroy the law and the prophets. No , I have not come to destroy them , but to fulfil them... whoever breaks the least of these commandment , and teaches men so, he will be called the least in the kingdom....

Mathew 5 verse 20 For I(JESUS) say to you, unless your rightousness exceeds the rightousness of the scribes and the pharisees, you cannot enter the kingdom of heaven.

In verse 17, Jesus said we're teach and do the law of Moses to be great in the kingdom and in verse 20 Jesus said unless your rightousness exceeds the rightousness of the Law you'll in no case enter the kingdom of heaven.
Are we to do both, keep the Law of Moses like Jesus, and keep Jesus words in red . Would that be exceeding the scribes and pharisees rightousness?
A couple of folks on here have come close to saying this but quite a few have focused on the law as a means to reveal sin and while that truly does do that, I believe it distorts the picture with that as a primary focus. Instead the law is the righteous requirement of a holy God and yes, no one could keep it, neither in the OT or the NT, save only Christ. Thus our brokenness and sin is utterly revealed by our inability to keep the righteous requirement of God.
Christ comes and fulfills the righteous requirement of the law by his perfect obedience not only to the law but to the Father to endure an unjust death, freeing us from its condemnation and thus freeing us to love the Lord our God with all our heart and with all our soul and with all our mind and with all our strength.
However, if having been delivered from such things as the condemnation of God's righteous requirements, we return again to forget the need of Christ and we lean upon our own ability, then we must fulfill the entire righteous requirement of the law because we are rejecting his work to this end.
He then describes what the more is (the exceeding of scribes and the pharisees)...For the scribes and pharisees were focused on the outward conformity of the law (and were masters at it) but in the immediate following verses, God who sees the heart elaborates that the law is more than the outward. And we have those great verses here that talk about hate equating to murder and lust to adultery/fornication. Here we should recall the prophets in Deut 10:16 and Jer 4:4. It is impossible to keep the law outwardly and inwardly. Returning then again to Christ we should remember Deut 9:5 that it is not by our righteousness that we shall receive the promises of God but by His judgements and work on our behalf.
Therefore Love with zeal and freedom and ever live to set others free as you have been set free from the bondage of the law's condemnation.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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There are different laws in the bible. Some were health laws, which we still keep a lot of to a greater or lesser extent today. Others were laws that pointed to the coming of christ which were fulfilled when he came. You should be able to see that we still keep health laws from that time even though Christ has come. Eg quarantining persons and animals sick with unknown diseases. The laws to be fulfilled were answered, or filled by Christs death. For example, slaughtering a lamb to gain forgiveness of sins was a law pointing to Christ that would become fulfilled when Christ would come in person and die for us. This was clearly fulfilled by Christs death. Then there is the immutable law which was the ten commandments. The ten commandments were not laws that were created to be fulfilled. So Christs death could not make them irrelevant. Christ spent his life here preaching continually that people should repent of their sins and live a life in the order of these ten commandments. Why would he do such a thing when he had relatively very little time with us here in the flesh. In revelation keeping the law is a characteristic described of those that will be saved. Note that keeping the law (ten commandments)does not save you, but once you have accepted Jesus and recieved the holy spirit, a work begins in you that leads you eventually to a state where you are in the order of the ten commandments.
The law is a unit, not a group of commandments that one may or may not follow. You either follow it completely or you are a lawbreaker. There is no Scripture dividing the law into components. Further, we don’t “follow the law “ regarding quarantine, though we may employ the principle.
 

GRACE_ambassador

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Feb 22, 2021
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So we would have to slaughter animals to not be guilty of lawbreaking.
Correct, according to Scriptures:

Jas 2:10 "For whosoever shall keep the whole law,​
and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all."​
Better Is What God Has For us, under Grace:

Christ Living In us, To Fulfil:
All Of His Law, In "One Word: Love thy neighbor as thyself!"​

"Simplicity In Christ" eh?

Amen.
 
Aug 27, 2023
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The law is a unit, not a group of commandments that one may or may not follow. You either follow it completely or you are a lawbreaker. There is no Scripture dividing the law into components. Further, we don’t “follow the law “ regarding quarantine, though we may employ the principle.
I kinda see a dividing of the law… dividing might not be the most accurate word though.
 
Aug 27, 2023
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You might see it, but if you do, you aren't looking at Scripture. ;)
Nah… I’m looking at scripture, now I might be interpreting it wrong, wouldn’t be the the first…. Anyhow… let’s take a look at scripture.

Lev 11:46-47
46 This is the law of the beasts, and of the fowl, and of every living creature that moveth in the waters, and of every creature that creepeth upon the earth:
47 To make a difference between the unclean and the clean, and between the beast that may be eaten and the beast that may not be eaten. (KJV)​

But when it says "This is the law of the beasts..." (Lev 11:46) it is not like the Ten Commandment Law, it is rather like the "law" of leprosy in the below:
Lev 14:54
54 This is the law for all manner of plague of leprosy, and scall, (KJV)​
In other words it was God's explanation. Let me explain like this:
  • When God explains foods, He is giving His explanation on what is healthy to eat (i.e., what is clean to the human body to consume).
  • When God explains the Medicinal, He is giving His explanation on what is diagnosis and cures of sicknesses (i.e., what is the way to cleanse the human body of disease).
  • When God explains Commandments, He is giving His explanation on what is commanded by God of men to do and not to do (i.e., what is the way to eternal life of the human soul).
Below is God explaining food Laws, i.e., what is the way of foods for the body:
Lev 11:46-47
46 This is the law of the beasts, and of the fowl, and of every living creature that moveth in the waters, and of every creature that creepeth upon the earth:
47 To make a difference between the unclean and the clean, and between the beast that may be eaten and the beast that may not be eaten. (KJV)


Below is God explaining Disease Laws, i.e., what is the way of diagnosis and curing of the sick body:
Lev 14:54-57
54 This is the law for all manner of plague of leprosy, and scall,
55 And for the leprosy of a garment, and of a house,
56 And for a rising, and for a scab, and for a bright spot:
57 To teach when it is unclean, and when it is clean: this is the law of leprosy. (KJV)

Commandment Laws, i.e., what is the way that men ought to act under penalty of eternal death:
Exod 20:1-4
1 And God spake all these words, saying,
2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: (KJV) [Etc., the Ten Commandments continue through verse 17...]
Kinda looks like, if you break the food laws you get sick, if you break the medicinal laws you won't get cured, but if you break His Commandment Laws you are apt to end up in Hell. 😉