Notice Paul’s Attitude! He Did Not Believe Or Claim To Already Have Salvation, But Sought To Progressively GROW Up Into The Likeness Of Christ,

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HealthAndHappiness

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2022
10,606
4,535
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Almost Heaven West Virginia
#61
still confused
It says untill we have reçieved possession of it.
It looks like there saying we believe something we have been told.
The eternal life is The Gift given at the minute one rejects the false notion of works (repent), then accepts the fact that Christ's atonement was all sufficient. ( Ephesians 2:8)

Maybe the KJ Bible will clarify.

"That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. 13In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory."

An earnest payment on something is akin to a person ready to purchase property. He says, I agree to buy that piece of land so I am giving you X#$ right now to show that I am serious and will not renig on the sale.

The Holy Spirit of promise Is the earnest until the day we appear in Heaven. We are not going to receive everything now, but that gift of salvation and some 30+ other assets.
Our location changes when the human spirit leaves the dead body behind. I will never die because I trusted Jesus Who imparted His gift of Everlasting life. The temporary body that contains the sin nature will be left behind some day and the full inheritance will be finally realized. The Holy Spirit is the earnest, and yes, guarantees that.

Does that make sense?

If not, then check This out.
 

Walter

Well-known member
Jul 20, 2022
1,282
598
113
77
Washington
firstthings1sttab.tripod.com
#62
The eternal life is The Gift given at the minute one rejects the false notion of works (repent), then accepts the fact that Christ's atonement was all sufficient. ( Ephesians 2:8)

Maybe the KJ Bible will clarify.

"That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. 13In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory."

An earnest payment on something is akin to a person ready to purchase property. He says, I agree to buy that piece of land so I am giving you X#$ right now to show that I am serious and will not renig on the sale.

The Holy Spirit of promise Is the earnest until the day we appear in Heaven. We are not going to receive everything now, but that gift of salvation and some 30+ other assets.
Our location changes when the human spirit leaves the dead body behind. I will never die because I trusted Jesus Who imparted His gift of Everlasting life. The temporary body that contains the sin nature will be left behind some day and the full inheritance will be finally realized. The Holy Spirit is the earnest, and yes, guarantees that.

Does that make sense?

If not, then check This out.
Yes
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,669
5,910
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#63
Possessing eternal life.
Possessing eternal life or receiving a promise of it at the end ?

“But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Salvation is something we will possess at the end of our faith not something we possess now as if we could lose it it’s a goal set before us a promise that if we endure the trial of faith in the world

“that the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ: whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory: receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭1:7-9‬ ‭

Do you notice how in the New Testament. It doesn’t just say “ you’re all saved your all saved “ but rather it’s a doctrine for us to apply to our lives ?

Does this sound like Paul is saying “ you’re already saved there’s nothing else to do ?” Or is he guiding them towards something telling them “ wake up !”

“Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Do all things without murmurings and disputings: that ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world; holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain.”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭2:12-16‬ ‭

work out your salvation not “ your already saved nd you could never lose th is salvation you already possess “ or this does it make us think we’re already saved ? or is he instructing us to change our view ?

“If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory. Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: for which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience: in the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them. But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth. Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; and have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him: Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering; forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye. And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness. And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful. Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭3:1-10, 12-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬


salvstion os a promise made by Jesus our lord that if we believe in him hesr the gospel and follow we shall surely live and not die but if we reject him nd won’t heed his word nd refuse to follow the lord who’s offering us life we’ll surely perish th the world

airs a guarantee if we follow but it’s not conditionless as if either way we respond we’re already saved this world is testing our faith in him like a refiners fire

awe need to stand firm in faith d repent when we fail and continue on in faith to receive salvation it’s a promise that if we become his disciples we will certainly be saved if we refuse the gospel however we certainly will perish

a remember brother every one of us has to appear before his judgement throne only Jesus has the right to judge a persons salvation and he will for all of us if we trust his words we’re going to live if we don’t we have to answer to those same words

Salvstion is something Jesus disciples can rest assured of but this requires them to hear him and learn from him and follow his ways towards home

airs like if we’re in a burning building and a hero enters and says just walk straight and you’ll get out , if we don’t trust him we aren’t going to follow his word that’s guiding us out of the fire . If we do trust his word we’re going to follow what he said because we believe it’s salvstion from the flames

awe have to be his disciples ehich is what transforms us and changes us into his image we accept his judgements and they become our guiding principles in this way we become like him following his faith and ideas of life with God but salvstion is the end of that we hear the promise at the beginning that compels us but we also have to follow tonthe end to receive anything faith is something you have to hear about me then you follow after like this

“These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:13,

abraham the original man of faith didn’t receive the promise in his lifetime on earth he lived and died believing the promise would come to pass he died believing fornthe promise

that’s us and salvstion we believe that Jesus is going to save us in the end but we are walking by that faith until we arrive in the next world
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
20,083
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#66
Possessing eternal life or receiving a promise of it at the end ?

“But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Salvation is something we will possess at the end of our faith not something we possess now as if we could lose it it’s a goal set before us a promise that if we endure the trial of faith in the world

“that the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ: whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory: receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭1:7-9‬ ‭

Do you notice how in the New Testament. It doesn’t just say “ you’re all saved your all saved “ but rather it’s a doctrine for us to apply to our lives ?

Does this sound like Paul is saying “ you’re already saved there’s nothing else to do ?” Or is he guiding them towards something telling them “ wake up !”

“Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Do all things without murmurings and disputings: that ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world; holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain.”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭2:12-16‬ ‭

work out your salvation not “ your already saved nd you could never lose th is salvation you already possess “ or this does it make us think we’re already saved ? or is he instructing us to change our view ?

“If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory. Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: for which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience: in the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them. But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth. Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; and have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him: Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering; forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye. And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness. And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful. Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭3:1-10, 12-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬


salvstion os a promise made by Jesus our lord that if we believe in him hesr the gospel and follow we shall surely live and not die but if we reject him nd won’t heed his word nd refuse to follow the lord who’s offering us life we’ll surely perish th the world

airs a guarantee if we follow but it’s not conditionless as if either way we respond we’re already saved this world is testing our faith in him like a refiners fire

awe need to stand firm in faith d repent when we fail and continue on in faith to receive salvation it’s a promise that if we become his disciples we will certainly be saved if we refuse the gospel however we certainly will perish

a remember brother every one of us has to appear before his judgement throne only Jesus has the right to judge a persons salvation and he will for all of us if we trust his words we’re going to live if we don’t we have to answer to those same words

Salvstion is something Jesus disciples can rest assured of but this requires them to hear him and learn from him and follow his ways towards home

airs like if we’re in a burning building and a hero enters and says just walk straight and you’ll get out , if we don’t trust him we aren’t going to follow his word that’s guiding us out of the fire . If we do trust his word we’re going to follow what he said because we believe it’s salvstion from the flames

awe have to be his disciples ehich is what transforms us and changes us into his image we accept his judgements and they become our guiding principles in this way we become like him following his faith and ideas of life with God but salvstion is the end of that we hear the promise at the beginning that compels us but we also have to follow tonthe end to receive anything faith is something you have to hear about me then you follow after like this

“These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:13,

abraham the original man of faith didn’t receive the promise in his lifetime on earth he lived and died believing the promise would come to pass he died believing fornthe promise

that’s us and salvstion we believe that Jesus is going to save us in the end but we are walking by that faith until we arrive in the next world
Possessing it.
John 3:16...God's purpose in salvation is to give eternal life.
John 17:3...Eternal life is knowing God and Jesus.
John 20:31...The gospel was written for the purpose of believing and having life eternal.
1 John 5:13...We can know we have eternal life.
 

Walter

Well-known member
Jul 20, 2022
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firstthings1sttab.tripod.com
#67
Possessing it.
John 3:16...God's purpose in salvation is to give eternal life.
John 17:3...Eternal life is knowing God and Jesus.
John 20:31...The gospel was written for the purpose of believing and having life eternal.
1 John 5:13...We can know we have eternal life.
Yes If We Be In His Plan Of Salvation.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
20,083
6,884
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#71
Yes If We Be In His Plan Of Salvation.
The point I'm making is that eternal life is present in salvation. We once were dead in our trespasses and sins and now we have become alive in Christ. What Adam lost for us has been restored and we, like Adam, can now walk with God. It isn't some future hope. We can know God and Jesus in the here and now. And this is what life consists in.
 

Walter

Well-known member
Jul 20, 2022
1,282
598
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77
Washington
firstthings1sttab.tripod.com
#72
The point I'm making is that eternal life is present in salvation. We once were dead in our trespasses and sins and now we have become alive in Christ. What Adam lost for us has been restored and we, like Adam, can now walk with God. It isn't some future hope. We can know God and Jesus in the here and now. And this is what life consists in.
This is not what the scriptures teach Brother.
 

listenyoumustAll

Well-known member
Jul 22, 2021
404
288
63
#74
The point I'm making is that eternal life is present in salvation. We once were dead in our trespasses and sins and now we have become alive in Christ. What Adam lost for us has been restored and we, like Adam, can now walk with God. It isn't some future hope. We can know God and Jesus in the here and now. And this is what life consists in.
Eternity starts right after being born again Period.
 

Fundaamental

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2023
3,289
421
83
#75
The eternal life is The Gift given at the minute one rejects the false notion of works (repent), then accepts the fact that Christ's atonement was all sufficient. ( Ephesians 2:8)

Maybe the KJ Bible will clarify.

"That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. 13In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory."

An earnest payment on something is akin to a person ready to purchase property. He says, I agree to buy that piece of land so I am giving you X#$ right now to show that I am serious and will not renig on the sale.

The Holy Spirit of promise Is the earnest until the day we appear in Heaven. We are not going to receive everything now, but that gift of salvation and some 30+ other assets.
Our location changes when the human spirit leaves the dead body behind. I will never die because I trusted Jesus Who imparted His gift of Everlasting life. The temporary body that contains the sin nature will be left behind some day and the full inheritance will be finally realized. The Holy Spirit is the earnest, and yes, guarantees that.

Does that make sense?

If not, then check This out.
I read this and watched the video.

I don't think your understanding where I'm coming from,

Recieving the first fruits could mean being saved,

recieving a promise of a future event is something you can only believe will happen, but you don't know you've received it.

You only trust and know that you will, by trusting in the lord's promise and his word.

So it looks like being saved and salvation are separate events.

Because the last 4 different scriptures I have read regarding salvation, refers to a future event.

Which means we can't claim it yet or boast that we have.

Maybe we can say we know we have reçieved the fruits of the spirit which assures us where saved, because of a change in ways and character.

But apart from this I'm sure this is the reason paul wouldn't boast about his infirmities.
 
Mar 23, 2016
7,021
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#76
you can only know that your saved, by what you've been told.
As has been pointed out ... faith by hearing and hearing by the Word of God – Rom 10:17.

John 14:20 At that day ye shall know [Greek ginṓskō] that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

The words "shall know" are translated from the Greek word ginṓskō which means to know, especially through personal experience (first-hand acquaintance), so this is more than just a mental assent to what has been heard. It is knowing that you know.


Romans 1:16-17 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it [the gospel of Christ] is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein [in the gospel of Christ] is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

The gospel of Christ is the power of God unto salvation to all who believe ... the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith.

From faith to faith – not from works to faith or from faith to works ... from faith to faith. The life of the born again one begins in faith and the born again one is to continue to live by faith alone.

The born again one can absolutely know that he or she is in the Lord Jesus Christ and the Lord Jesus Christ is in him or her (John 14:20) ... and the born again one can absolutely know that the Lord Jesus Christ is eternal life (1 John 5:20) ... because the born again one lives by faith.

And I believe faith is a more real and dynamic reality than what we comprehend through our senses ...
.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,669
5,910
113
#77
Possessing it.
John 3:16...God's purpose in salvation is to give eternal life.
John 17:3...Eternal life is knowing God and Jesus.
John 20:31...The gospel was written for the purpose of believing and having life eternal.
1 John 5:13...We can know we have eternal life.
right brother you have heard a promise from Jesus Christ in the gospel to his disciples which was preached to all people after he ascended by those same disciples that if we become disciples we shall be saved

consider what I’m saying

“And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭13:11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Its something we’re approaching a promise ahead

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh;

and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:5-6‬ ‭

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:63‬ ‭

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭

notice how the conditions begin very simply just believe in Jesus but remaining very consistent and founded upon this basic principle more becomes apparent as we hear his words delve deeper as we ( expand in understanding ) or “grow up “

“Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me. If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.”
‭‭John‬ ‭7:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Notice how what he said before about belief begins to take a different shape as we hear more of the gospel how he begins making disciples of initial believers

“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

……..Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:31-32, 51‬ ‭

notice how ones understsnding would begin to reach new levels as we allowed more of this process of faith into our own belief

Until we can hear this and really be comfortable with it he’s gently calling us to repentance d obedience because sin is still death

“And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like: he is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock. But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭6:46-49‬ ‭KJV‬‬

awe first believe and confess but then we hit a point where we have to let more in so we will grow up a bit more and become a toddler and then a youth a teen eventually a young adult on and on we grow up in this new identity this new born creation but as we grow we also become more accountable to God like in life as you grow up you become more accountable to society and law and your actually expected to live within the structure of the accepted laws of society

its just like that with Christ it’s actually why he uses the term born again it’s the same process as when we were babes d nothing was expected of us but then we became a kid and had a few chores and responsibilities not a lot but our parents started teaching us responsibility and accountability we would t grow up thinking we can do anything we want and won’t be accountable

God is a good father he’s saving us by teaching us to repent and live right before it’s too late

“For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;”
‭‭Titus‬ ‭2:11-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I don’t think we’re really disagreeing only on whether salvetion already is fulfilled ? Or if it is a promise made by Jesus to all his disciples for all time that if they repent and believe in him and follow after Him as if he is the Lord they will without a doubt be saved from death and dwell with him forever

We believe his promise saying “ anyone who believes in Jesus will be saved “ and we stand firm but then we never reject the next thing he says we hear it and grow in faith and he changes us over time to become like him through the process of hearing the gospel and believing we learn as time goes to repent and start learning and following the lord and stern true warnings are part of that

We can also choose to do this when we start hearing his words

From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:66‬ ‭

Were only accountable for what we know but we are accountable for what we know in Christ when we do wrong we can repent and be forgiven like we never sinned but we really do have a role Tom play in salvstion chrirt has made us able to be saved if we believe him he told us the way and provided everything we need by just hearing and believing the gospel

But as the gospel saves believers and those who become disciples it condemns those who reject it d judges those who believe but reject his words ….we grow from faith to faith and from one glory to another a continual lifelong process preparing one for home

doesnt matter how far along we get or how much we learn in not matters that we repent and become faithful in what we know of the gospel itnis what keeps a Christian from becoming high minded , and complacent and judgemental ect we’re always pressing towards the goal of the highest calling in the lord no matter how well we’re doing there’s more for us to pursue in belief
 
Mar 23, 2016
7,021
1,674
113
#78
it looks like being saved and salvation are separate events.
being saved is salvation.

I believe you are talking about sanctification ... as opposed to salvation?

sanctification is the ongoing process whereby God works within the born again one to conform him or her to the image of His Son ... and there is a day coming when we shall be like Him:

1 John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
20,083
6,884
113
62
#79
right brother you have heard a promise from Jesus Christ in the gospel to his disciples which was preached to all people after he ascended by those same disciples that if we become disciples we shall be saved

consider what I’m saying

“And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭13:11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Its something we’re approaching a promise ahead

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh;

and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:5-6‬ ‭

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:63‬ ‭

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭

notice how the conditions begin very simply just believe in Jesus but remaining very consistent and founded upon this basic principle more becomes apparent as we hear his words delve deeper as we ( expand in understanding ) or “grow up “

“Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me. If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.”
‭‭John‬ ‭7:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Notice how what he said before about belief begins to take a different shape as we hear more of the gospel how he begins making disciples of initial believers

“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

……..Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:31-32, 51‬ ‭

notice how ones understsnding would begin to reach new levels as we allowed more of this process of faith into our own belief

Until we can hear this and really be comfortable with it he’s gently calling us to repentance d obedience because sin is still death

“And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like: he is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock. But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭6:46-49‬ ‭KJV‬‬

awe first believe and confess but then we hit a point where we have to let more in so we will grow up a bit more and become a toddler and then a youth a teen eventually a young adult on and on we grow up in this new identity this new born creation but as we grow we also become more accountable to God like in life as you grow up you become more accountable to society and law and your actually expected to live within the structure of the accepted laws of society

its just like that with Christ it’s actually why he uses the term born again it’s the same process as when we were babes d nothing was expected of us but then we became a kid and had a few chores and responsibilities not a lot but our parents started teaching us responsibility and accountability we would t grow up thinking we can do anything we want and won’t be accountable

God is a good father he’s saving us by teaching us to repent and live right before it’s too late

“For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;”
‭‭Titus‬ ‭2:11-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I don’t think we’re really disagreeing only on whether salvetion already is fulfilled ? Or if it is a promise made by Jesus to all his disciples for all time that if they repent and believe in him and follow after Him as if he is the Lord they will without a doubt be saved from death and dwell with him forever

We believe his promise saying “ anyone who believes in Jesus will be saved “ and we stand firm but then we never reject the next thing he says we hear it and grow in faith and he changes us over time to become like him through the process of hearing the gospel and believing we learn as time goes to repent and start learning and following the lord and stern true warnings are part of that

We can also choose to do this when we start hearing his words

From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:66‬ ‭

Were only accountable for what we know but we are accountable for what we know in Christ when we do wrong we can repent and be forgiven like we never sinned but we really do have a role Tom play in salvstion chrirt has made us able to be saved if we believe him he told us the way and provided everything we need by just hearing and believing the gospel

But as the gospel saves believers and those who become disciples it condemns those who reject it d judges those who believe but reject his words ….we grow from faith to faith and from one glory to another a continual lifelong process preparing one for home

doesnt matter how far along we get or how much we learn in not matters that we repent and become faithful in what we know of the gospel itnis what keeps a Christian from becoming high minded , and complacent and judgemental ect we’re always pressing towards the goal of the highest calling in the lord no matter how well we’re doing there’s more for us to pursue in belief
Brother, we have already passed from death to life. That life is in Christ and is the life of Christ being lived in us...I live, yet not I, but Christ lives in me...Galatians 2:20. It is God at work in us, willing and doing of His good pleasure...Philippians 2:13.
None of this was happening before grace wrought salvation in us by faith. And not only is it happening, we are noticing it happening in us. The Spirit is actively operating in us more and more of His fruit. We are beginning more and more to exercise love and patience. Peace and joy are becoming hallmarks in us. All this is born out of our salvation and connection now with Christ. I do agree it is coming progressively, but we aren't producing it. It is born out of this intimate relationship we now have in Christ. As Adam intimately knew his wife, so are we spiritually knowing Jesus. And this is what John 17:3 is all about.
Incidentally, this is what Paul is referring to in Philippians 3 when he says he counted all things loss for the excellency of the knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ. He wasn't talking about knowing facts about Jesus. He was referring to interacting with Him in real and manifest ways. In Ephesians 6 when Paul speaks of being strong in the Lord and the power of His might, he is referring to the same reality. Those not experiencing the Lord this way were said to have a form of godliness, but deny its power.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
61,157
30,306
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#80
The point I'm making is that eternal life is present in salvation. We once were dead in our trespasses and sins and
now we have become alive in Christ. What Adam lost for us has been restored and we, like Adam, can now walk
with God. It isn't some future hope. We can know God and Jesus in the here and now. And this is what life consists in.

John 5:24-25
:)