A question about adultery

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JohnB

Well-known member
Jul 31, 2022
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Calif
#21
Jesus said to the adulteress, go and sin no more. There is a difference between a sinful act and a sinful lifestyle. What Christian is totally innocent of offences stated in 1 Corinthians 6:9? I've made a false claim on my tax return a few times, until I realised that it was sin. I idolised my children. I did not realise this until my marriage broke up and I did not see them for 15 years. Paul is warning those who think that we are forgiven so it's ok to sin. Sin does not prevent us going to heaven. That is settled the moment that we are born again. If we choose to live in sin, that disqualifies us from the Kingdom of God.

God does not expect us to be instantly perfect. He does want us to choose to be free and clean. As we seek that freedom, He will bring it to pass. It can be a painful process and it will take a lifetime. Holiness perfection is not available in this lifetime. However, we should be different after 20 years or so. If we are unchanged, it is time to do some soul searching.
I think GOD shows much more grace than many in the church would. Such as in Exodus 22:16-17 and Deuteronomy 22:28-29.
 

Karlon

Well-known member
Mar 8, 2023
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#22
There are not different kinds of adultery. It is fascinating to me that by the time of King David, it seemed that at least some of the penalties for breaking the Law were not enforced. David should have been killed for two crimes, adultery and murder. Yet God let him escape. Even in the OT, mercy prevailed over justice. And it was Bathsheba's son who ascended to the throne.

Having said all that, God also knows the motivations of the heart. The true hardliners say that the divorced should never remarry. I do not believe that God punishes the innocent along with the guilty. And adultery is not the unforgiveable sin. What man has never looked at a woman without lust? Not all women are innocent in this regard either, especially in the western world.

It's a vexed issue that I know too well myself. I was divorced in 1995 and I remarried last year. It helps to remember that God forgets when He forgives. That is not a licence to sin, but it is grace to get our lives back on the right track. Hopefully, we learn from our failures and so do not repeat them.
i believe God honors a new marriage. Christians should maintain, in their heart, mind, body, soul & spirit, the meaning, drive & attempt to always be Godly in marriage. if the situations arrives where neither spouse can work it out after your best try, divorce may be the end result. but be wise so after the divorce, you can never look back & experience guilt because you didn't try your fullest. when the personalities & attitudes start to separate, never say or do anything that will result in regret afterwards!
 

JohnDB

Well-known member
Jan 16, 2021
5,628
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#23
The law says the punishment for adultery is death. Moses gave reasons for divorce and remarriage. Jesus said "It was because of the hardiness of your hearts" Jesus called divorce and remarriage adultery, but never called for any punishment. Are there different types of adultery. It seems the two are treated differently.
No....divorce and remarriage is not adultery. What Jesus was talking about was "Put Away" wives and how a husband was going to be held responsible for any sin the wife commits as a result of being "Put Away"...which is death. Also Jesus talked about men taking advantage of suspected "Put Away" women and how they were going to be held accountable for adultery as well.

Polygamy was completely fine in Jewish culture. Moses, Abraham, David, Joash, and Solomon all had many wives.

Polyandry was unacceptable and always has been. Paul referred to Roman/Greek men who had Consorts as their wives....which infuriated Roman/Greek men because they viewed polygamy as vile. However Paul reserved such terms for his disciples/apprentices like Timothy and Titus.

The commonly used passages in Matthew 19 for this Theological position have started wars and bloodshed. So tradition has kept these verses from ever being translated completely or correctly.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
56,021
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#24
Polygamy was completely fine in Jewish culture. Moses, Abraham, David, Joash, and Solomon all had many wives.
I wonder about the "completely" part. Honouring the wife of your youth
would not include inviting another woman into the marriage bed.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
12,352
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#25
The law says the punishment for adultery is death. Moses gave reasons for divorce and remarriage. Jesus said "It was because of the hardiness of your hearts" Jesus called divorce and remarriage adultery, but never called for any punishment. Are there different types of adultery? It seems the two are treated differently.
Divorce is not adultery.

Divorce causes the woman to commit adultery because she has no Husband and is married. As far as God is concerned, she was married, and so was he. Yet if the man divorces his wife, HE causes her to commit adultery. Jesus said in Matthew 19:3-9




3 The Pharisees also came to Him, testing Him, and saying to Him, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for just any reason?”

4 And He answered and said to them, “Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’ 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? 6 So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.”

7 They said to Him, “Why then did Moses command to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?”

8 He said to them, “Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. 9 And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery.”


If there was no sexual immorality, there is no grounds for divorce Yet it did happen because of the hardness of man's heart.

The woman is forced into adultery because she had no man and is no longer a virgin; she was a wife. How can she return to good standing with the community and God when one, she is not a virgin and not married, two has no status or representative on her behalf, and three cannot worship in the temple.
She is forced to 1. remarry 2. become a prostitute. 3. be stoned and removed.
 

Karlon

Well-known member
Mar 8, 2023
1,927
794
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#27
I wonder about the "completely" part. Honouring the wife of your youth
would not include inviting another woman into the marriage bed.
totally true. it's quite weird how the Jews are the chosen people but still today, there are a lot of atheistic Jews, some believe in God but not Jesus, some believe in God & the Holy Spirit but not Jesus! i find it unbelievable.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
12,352
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#28
totally true. it's quite weird how the Jews are the chosen people but still today, there are a lot of atheistic Jews, some believe in God but not Jesus, some believe in God & the Holy Spirit but not Jesus! i find it unbelievable.
there are many Christian Jews.
 

studentoftheword

Well-known member
Nov 12, 2021
1,597
543
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#29
It is fascinating to me that by the time of King David, it seemed that at least some of the penalties for breaking the Law were not enforced. David should have been killed for two crimes, adultery and murder. Yet God let him escape. Even in the OT, mercy prevailed over justice. And it was Bathsheba's son who ascended to the throne.
I think you should do some research on how God punished David severely---2 Samuel 12

God brought 3 Judgments against David ------

Nathan Rebukes David
12 The Lord sent Nathan to David.

Murder ----You killed him with the sword of the Ammonites. 10 Now, therefore, the sword will never depart from your house-----David's whole household will never have peace ----

Adultary ------11 “This is what the Lord says: ‘Out of your own household I am going to bring calamity on you. Before your very eyes I will take your wives and give them to one who is close to you, and he will sleep with your wives in broad daylight.

Judgment 3 ---
13 Then David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the Lord.”

Nathan replied, The Lord has taken away your sin. You are not going to die. 14 But because by doing this you have shown utter contempt for[a] the Lord, the son born to you will die.”

NOTICE HERE ____God had already made a point of forgiving David of His sins ----so he could't go back on His Word --so God took the Son -----as judgment for a lie for a lie -------pretty harsh judgment I say -----David paid a hefty price for all he did against God ------

God as per scripture does not show any Favoritism to anyone -----God love all His creation the same and He judges all who disobey Him and His word ------

1691767828599.jpeg
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
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#30
The law says the punishment for adultery is death. Moses gave reasons for divorce and remarriage. Jesus said "It was because of the hardiness of your hearts" Jesus called divorce and remarriage adultery, but never called for any punishment. Are there different types of adultery. It seems the two are treated differently.
what about in Revelation where Jesus punished Jezebel with the death of her children...and the mother of harlots of Babylon

David WAS punished, the child he had with Bathesheba died soon after birth. David repented though and then did marry Bathesheba and then had Solomon. He didnt leave Bathsheba unmarried. I am not sure what they would have done had Uriah not been killed though. Bathsheba would have been found out and stoned most probably.

The children of adultery -illegitimate, or what used to be called bastards...do not have a blessing on their lives and often their lives are cut short because of this. Abortions often happen because of adultery tho nobody seems to mention this....
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
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#31
I think it pays to read your Bible carefully and not skip any parts.

Also recall that Jesus forgave Mary Magdalene who repented and did not sin again. She became devoted to Jesus though many still saw her as a sinner and thought her actions (anointing Jesus, washing his feet with her hair, listening to Him) questionable.

The woman with five husbands at the well also tried to flirt with Jesus but He knew all she ever did. She ended up being an evangelist who recognised the Messiah

If youve comitted adultery, confess it and get right with God. A broken and contrite heart He will not despise. He will purify your thoughts and wash your hands clean. He will lead you out of temptation
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
12,296
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#32
Jesus also said " if you look at a women with lust in your eye you have committed adultery in your heart".

takes things to a different level....
Jesus is telling us what will end sexual lusts hold on mankind’s heart and mind and keep us from ever wanting or desiring to commit sexual sins like fornication

moses is just telling sinners not to sin and identifying what it is and it’s result of death

jesus is telling us how to overcome sins snare within our mind and heart if we take control of our trout and where we allow our mind and heart to dwell we can overcome sins dominion over us and it’s deception in us

We can’t overcome by Will power but by letting Jesus teach us how to overcome sins effective grasp on man

like David remember David began to look and peer at Bathsheba naked and began to think about and desire for her , he then began to covet her sexually in his mind and then her husband was away he sent for her called her to his chambers and committed adultery with her impregnating another honorable Israelite man’s wife .

This then led David to begin to deceive and plot trying to cover his transgression and trick Uriah into believing it was his child but Uriah stays to his duties d doesn’t go in with his wife do David’s scheme at deception fails then he plots to kill Uriah so everyone won’t discover his transgression of adultery (a sin of death )
then he leaves Uriah alone by his own command on the front of battle with no help assuring his death


imagine if David nipped it in the bud and when he saw Bathsheba the first time what if he turned away his eyes and refused to look upon other man’s wife’s nakedness ? What if David ended it in his mind when it could be conceived or cast out ?

eould david had still followed the sinful course of actions to cover his sins if he would have refused to look at another’s spouse as he did and began to lust ?

Jesus is teaching us how to overcome sinful living by teaching us the spiritual inner things like don’t let your mind and heart be filled with sinful desires not only sexual but many things are sinful we shouldn’t let those things dwell in our minds but rather Gods word the gospel belongs written all over the walls of our mind

and can become like our inner compass that keeps us on the right paths
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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#33
Jesus is telling us what will end sexual lusts hold on mankind’s heart and mind and keep us from ever wanting or desiring to commit sexual sins like fornication

moses is just telling sinners not to sin and identifying what it is and it’s result of death

jesus is telling us how to overcome sins snare within our mind and heart if we take control of our trout and where we allow our mind and heart to dwell we can overcome sins dominion over us and it’s deception in us

We can’t overcome by Will power but by letting Jesus teach us how to overcome sins effective grasp on man

like David remember David began to look and peer at Bathsheba naked and began to think about and desire for her , he then began to covet her sexually in his mind and then her husband was away he sent for her called her to his chambers and committed adultery with her impregnating another honorable Israelite man’s wife .

This then led David to begin to deceive and plot trying to cover his transgression and trick Uriah into believing it was his child but Uriah stays to his duties d doesn’t go in with his wife do David’s scheme at deception fails then he plots to kill Uriah so everyone won’t discover his transgression of adultery (a sin of death )
then he leaves Uriah alone by his own command on the front of battle with no help assuring his death


imagine if David nipped it in the bud and when he saw Bathsheba the first time what if he turned away his eyes and refused to look upon other man’s wife’s nakedness ? What if David ended it in his mind when it could be conceived or cast out ?

eould david had still followed the sinful course of actions to cover his sins if he would have refused to look at another’s spouse as he did and began to lust ?

Jesus is teaching us how to overcome sinful living by teaching us the spiritual inner things like don’t let your mind and heart be filled with sinful desires not only sexual but many things are sinful we shouldn’t let those things dwell in our minds but rather Gods word the gospel belongs written all over the walls of our mind

and can become like our inner compass that keeps us on the right paths
Nipped it in the bud...I actually laughed out loud. Were you channeling your inner Barney Fife?
 

JohnB

Well-known member
Jul 31, 2022
2,078
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#34
what about in Revelation where Jesus punished Jezebel with the death of her children...and the mother of harlots of Babylon

David WAS punished, the child he had with Bathesheba died soon after birth. David repented though and then did marry Bathesheba and then had Solomon. He didnt leave Bathsheba unmarried. I am not sure what they would have done had Uriah not been killed though. Bathsheba would have been found out and stoned most probably.

The children of adultery -illegitimate, or what used to be called bastards...do not have a blessing on their lives and often their lives are cut short because of this. Abortions often happen because of adultery tho nobody seems to mention this....
The child is with the LORD. David said.....The child will not come to me, but one day I will be with the child.
 

JohnDB

Well-known member
Jan 16, 2021
5,628
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#35
Divorce is not adultery.

Divorce causes the woman to commit adultery because she has no Husband and is married. As far as God is concerned, she was married, and so was he. Yet if the man divorces his wife, HE causes her to commit adultery. Jesus said in Matthew 19:3-9




3 The Pharisees also came to Him, testing Him, and saying to Him, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for just any reason?”

4 And He answered and said to them, “Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’ 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? 6 So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.”

7 They said to Him, “Why then did Moses command to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?”

8 He said to them, “Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. 9 And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery.”


If there was no sexual immorality, there is no grounds for divorce Yet it did happen because of the hardness of man's heart.

The woman is forced into adultery because she had no man and is no longer a virgin; she was a wife. How can she return to good standing with the community and God when one, she is not a virgin and not married, two has no status or representative on her behalf, and three cannot worship in the temple.
She is forced to 1. remarry 2. become a prostitute. 3. be stoned and removed.
Nope....again confusion created because of the mistranslation.

If you married a put away wife she is not divorced and you are committing adultery. A put away wife is not divorced....and the husband doesn't have to give her the dowry her father gave him. Because she could live off that money. However if you legally married another woman even if you have a put away wife it was not violating the law.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
12,352
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#36
Nope....again confusion created because of the mistranslation.

If you married a put away wife she is not divorced and you are committing adultery. A put away wife is not divorced....and the husband doesn't have to give her the dowry her father gave him. Because she could live off that money. However if you legally married another woman even if you have a put away wife it was not violating the law.

That's not what Jesus said it's your issue with he His words, not mine.




3 The Pharisees also came to Him, testing Him, and saying to Him, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for just any reason?”

4 And He answered and said to them, “Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’ 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? 6 So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.”

7 They said to Him, “Why then did Moses command to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?”

8 He said to them, “Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. 9 And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery.”
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
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#37
The child is with the LORD. David said.....The child will not come to me, but one day I will be with the child.
They were devastated (at first) losing a child is hard for anyone no matter how they were concieved.
Women who have abortions have to deal with grief too. I dont think anyone with a genuine heart truly wants to bury a baby/child.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
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#38
Nope....again confusion created because of the mistranslation.

If you married a put away wife she is not divorced and you are committing adultery. A put away wife is not divorced....and the husband doesn't have to give her the dowry her father gave him. Because she could live off that money. However if you legally married another woman even if you have a put away wife it was not violating the law.
that doesnt make any sense.

sorry.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
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#39
David was a peeping tom pretty much

Men, stop looking at us an imagining us naked and coveting our bodies that dont belong to you.

Its rude. Learn a bit of self control
 

JohnDB

Well-known member
Jan 16, 2021
5,628
2,212
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#40
That's not what Jesus said it's your issue with he His words, not mine.




3 The Pharisees also came to Him, testing Him, and saying to Him, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for just any reason?”

4 And He answered and said to them, “Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’ 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? 6 So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.”

7 They said to Him, “Why then did Moses command to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?”

8 He said to them, “Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. 9 And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery.”
I've looked very carefully at this passage in Greek AND Aramaic (what words He used precisely)

The KJV has it in English the most accurately for an imprecise translation to begin with.

The ONLY sin that is unforgivable is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit; which again is also not seeking forgiveness to begin with.

God forgives sin Completely....as if it never happened. Divorce is not a partially forgiven sin. (Which is your claim)

Either God forgives completely (as He has said) or God is a liar. I'll let you try to wiggle out of this one. It's a binary choice....not a "kinda" or "sort of but only if..."
When we ask for forgiveness it's gone, removed from us as far as the East is from the West or God has lied. I refuse to believe God has lied.