Paul saw the ten commandments as part of the "ministry of death."

17 To him, then, who knows to do good and does not do it, to him it is sin.

whatt is "good" does evry person define it differently or does he have a meaning to his words?

Context has meaning

James 4:1-10,1 Whence come wars and whence come fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your pleasures that war in your members? 2 Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and covet, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war; ye have not, because ye ask not. 3 Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may spend it in your pleasures. 4 Ye adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? Whosoever therefore would be a friend of the world maketh himself an enemy of God. 5 Or think ye that the scripture speaketh in vain? Doth the spirit which he made to dwell in us long unto envying? 6 But he giveth more grace. Wherefore the scripture saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace to the humble. 7 Be subject therefore unto God; but resist the devil, and he will flee from you. 8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye doubleminded. 9 Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness. 10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall exalt you.

He clearly is making moral distinction...it not whatever one makes up as "good"

James 4:11-17,11 Speak not one against another, brethren. He that speaketh against a brother, or judgeth his brother, speaketh against the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judgest the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge. 12 One only is the lawgiver and judge, even he who is able to save and to destroy: but who art thou that judgest thy neighbour? 13 Go to now, ye that say, Today or tomorrow we will go into this city, and spend a year there, and trade, and get gain: 14 whereas ye know not what shall be on the morrow. What is your life? For ye are a vapour, that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth away. 15 For that ye ought to say, If the Lord will, we shall both live, and do this or that. 16 But now ye glory in your vauntings: all such glorying is evil. 17 To him therefore that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin."

In my view he had a clear line in what was good or bad.

James 1:25-27,25 But he that looketh into the perfect law, the law of liberty, and so continueth, being not a hearer that forgetteth, but a doer that worketh, this man shall be blessed in his doing. 26 If any man thinketh himself to be religious, while he bridleth not his tongue but deceiveth his heart, this man's religion is vain. 27 Pure religion and undefiled before our God and Father is this, to visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

context context context, not by chapter, by book

Nobody asked you to make a sandwich with it. Earlier, you could hardly follow a thought but now appear to be claiming that you know how to follow the Lord. Only ST101 is following you and I suppose you two are getting along just swimmingly. I'm not even reading your conversation anymore but was with Mr. hope and you cannot shame me into giving up my privilege to post anything I see fit while doing so.

Now you are beginning to understand why it is important to be led of the Spirit. Not every situation we come across is directly addressed in the law. The NT gives principles of behavior. For example, there is no command to help someone who has a flat tire. So what should you do? Are there times when you would help? Are there times when you would not? Is one sinful while the other is not? Should one always stop and help?

Ive know all this many years ago, Ive had personal trials and mission in my life most would not believe.

But you do make good points about help, and there are many Scriptures in and out of the Law about helping others. Feeding the poor, keeping you land safe, helping those even that hate you is in the Law, but there are also times and people you are supposed to stay away from.

Deuteronomy 22:4,4 “When you see your brother’s donkey or his ox fall down on the way, you shall not hide yourself from them. Help him raise them without fail.."

When I read this I have no problem applying this to a car,

When I see your brother’s car or truck break down on the way, you shall not hide yourself from them. Help him raise them without fail because it is a loving thing to do.

A pharisee would probably say, only help with donkey!!!!! no car help!

Yeah If people were openly violent I would not advise putting oneself in harms way to help unless they had been sent by YHWH in that exact matter, or if it was a woman by herself, especially at night I wouldnt advise her to stop and help.

Maybe this will help you.

https://subscriptions.hookedonphoni...MI1uqp7YfvgAMVGNF3Ch3pXgAvEAAYASAAEgISk_D_BwE

My point is, everything isn't cut and dry. There is the letter of the law and the spirit of the law. The letter of the law kills. This is what the OP is referring to. The spirit of the law brings life.

Aww, Tanks for the kidness.

The Spirit is the true intent of the law, the "letter" can be twsited by an evil heart.

In my view "brother" is a fellow believer" "neighbor" is a fellow human, but I have heard people say "neighbor" is someone in their culture community and "brother" is only their race, I think this is twsiting the letter.

This is how I see the Spirit of the Law in a short quick way:

Mat 7:12-14, "Therefore, all things you want men to do to you, do the same to them, for this is the (intent/Spirit of the) Law and the Prophets. Enter in through the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many are those who go that way. Because straight is the gate, and narrow is the way which leads to life, and few there are who find it."

This is a lot to read but it is a PRIME example of misuing the letter:

Deuteronomy 5:22, “These Words יהוה spoke to all your assembly, in the mountain from the midst of the fire, of the cloud, and of the thick darkness, with a loud voice, and He added no more. And He wrote them on two tablets of stone and gave them to me.”

Josephus, Antiquities 13.10.6, 297, “...The the Pharisees have delivered to the people a great many observances by succession from their fathers, which are not written in the Laws of Moses.”

Mark 7:8-9,8 “Forsaking the command of the Mighty One, you hold fast the tradition of men.” And He said to them, “Well do you set aside the command of the Mighty One, in order to guard your tradition.”

Here is an example of the Letter v the Spirit

Deuteronomy 6:8, “and shall bind them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes.”

Deuteronomy 11:18, “And you shall lay up these Words of Mine in your heart and in your being, and shall bind them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes.”

Spirit or letter? The Spirit says one thing The letter can be twisted continually, following a twisted version of the Law is not following it at all, but rather making the Law of no effect by one’s own will.

This is how Judaism “keeps” the “letter” of the Law and not the Spirit:

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia -
Tefillin (Askhenazic: /ˈtfɪlᵻn/; Israeli Hebrew: [tfiˈlin], ),
תפילין also called phylacteries (/fɪˈlæktəriːz/ from Ancient Greek φυλακτήριον phylacterion, form of phylássein, φυλάσσειν meaning "to guard, protect"), are a set of small black leather boxes containing scrolls of parchment inscribed with verses from the Torah. They are worn by male observant Jews during weekday morning prayers.

Rather than have the Law in their heart they “followed it” letter letter for letter, making it devoid of it’s true purpose; they tied the paper on which the Law was written to their head and arm.

Deuteronomy 11:18, “And you shall lay up these Words of Mine in your heart and in your being, and shall bind them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes.”

The proper implication of this Law would be to spiritually bind them “as a sign on your hand” by following the Laws by one’s actions and spiritually binding them “as a frontlet between your eyes” would be keeping them in your mind.…

I want to add, I think teaching these aa the 2 greatest Commands is the Spirit of the Law

Mat 22:36-40, "Teacher, what is the greatest commandment in the Law? Yahshua said to him: You must love YHWH your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might (Deuteronomy 6:5). This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself (Leviticus 19:18). On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

because if "On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets." then they all have to be done with love.

I think the pushback that people get when trying to instruct people, particularly teaching the law, is twofold:

1. People receive things from those they view as authoritative. The people were awed by Jesus' teaching because He spoke as one having authority, and not as the scribes and Pharisees. Few speak with such authority.
2. Most people have been taught particular understandings of scripture and it is very difficult to get someone to consider another possibility.

I agree fully, #2 was me for years, I grew up reading the word and eveytime I asked about the 10 Commands I was told they were old and not for Jesus followers in this age or something similar, it never sat right with me but at a young age I didnt know the Word well enough. Well after years of study I learned to accept the Scripture for what it said, not that I understand eveything and also the Law is not everything, but once I read for myself, after about 2 years of ddep study I realized I was only getting half the story, after 5 years I knew 100% that I had been told some falehood. Im far from perfect and need mercy, mercy I dont deserve but I want to do whatever He wants me to do, no matter what. Kind of like having a human father who really did everything for me and I never understood, then when he gets older I start to understand and want to honor him and do what would make him joyful with my conduct and respect and love for him, how much more important and more vital when it the Creator of all that is, more powerful than one can even grasp. Honestly it incrdible to even understand anything about Him and to think that He knows who we all are is beyond words. What He wants is more important than anything I want infinitely.

these are real:

1 Samuel 12:24, “Only fear יהוה, and you shall serve Him in truth with all your heart, for consider what marvels He has done for you."

Psalm 116:1-8, “I love יהוה, because He has heard my voice, my pleas. Because He has inclined His ear to me, And I shall call throughout my days. The cords of death were around me, And the pains of She’ol came upon me; I found distress and sorrow. "Then I called upon the Name of יהוה, “O יהוה, I pray to You, deliver my being!” יהוה shows favor and is righteous; And our Strength is compassionate. יהוה guards the simple; I was brought low, but He saved me. Return to your rest, O my being, For יהוה has treated you well. For You have delivered my being from death, My eyes from tears, My feet from falling."

None of us are perfect but seeking Him with a sincere heart is what matters.

“If your heart is cleansed by the Father His ways will be in your heart, you wont fight against them. “

yeah right who spoke the fathers words Moses ? Or Jesus ? That’s the question do we follow the ministration of death ? Or life ?

the ordination of angels set on a mediators hands that was not of faith and temporary until the lord came to speak his word ?

“Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

or is it the word Jesus spoke ? That’s the fathers word ?

“For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: ( all judgement is of Christ the son who was born )

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:22, 24‬ ‭

thats Jesus saying hear my word and you will live who was given all judgement

“I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins. Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning. I have many things to say and to judge of you: but he that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of him. They understood not that he spake to them of the Father. Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things. And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him. As he spake these words, many believed on him. Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:24-32‬ ‭

I think I don’t have any more argument to make though sometimes two people are t going to see things the same there’s no harm in it as far as I’m concerned but I hope to discuss another matter sometime this one o don’t really have anything else really to say just that Moses words aren’t the same covenant as Jesus words they don’t agree like I’ve shown several times

feel free to divorce for any reason and remarry v don’t divorce unless someone cheats then don’t remarry

those two words are opposite one allows divorce and breeds broken families the other called them to stick together through thick and thin and engenders a family unit one is far far better because it’s Gods truth that is t hidden behind the law meant for sinners it’s just the lord come to save anyone that will hear and believe him and follow to life ….

the law and gospel are contrary they aren’t the same disposition someone in the threads argument when I quoted Moses words from the Bible was , those really aren’t what Moses said , which would mean the first five books of the Bible can’t be trusted because they were secretly changed …….

when arguments become that preposterous and desperate it means the subject is really irritating some …..

the only way I can discuss scriptire is to discuss what they say my own view is that the new testement is the revelation of the old prophetic testament that Jesus arrival began to fulfill just as the law and prophets foretold all through the Bible’s pages

“For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭11:13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭16:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬


Jesus didn’t need Moses in order to be raised to life the the backwards Moses desperately needed Jesus in order to be raised up

the Old Testament is only a shadow only a pre pattern of things in heaven which Jesus brought forth we aren’t meant to be living in subject to this world by the law but we’re meant to be stepping into the kingdom of God by the gospel that’s not of this world

all that said i appreciate the time and discussion

The person who has has YHWH put His Spirit on them wont hate or discredit HIs Laws but will ahve them in theor heart:

Hebrews 10:16, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them."

Even Paul agrees:

Romans 8:5-8,
5, "For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

6, "For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

7, "Because the carnal mind is enmity (bitterly opposed) against יהוה: for it is not subject to the law of יהוה, neither indeed can be.

8, "So then they that are in the flesh cannot please יהוה.”

Both spoke YHWH's words but only one is the one "we must hear and obey" Yahshua, and He says:

Mat 22:36-40, "Teacher, what is the greatest commandment in the Law? Yahshua said to him: You must love YHWH your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might (Deuteronomy 6:5). This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself (Leviticus 19:18). On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

Mat 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.”

It was YHWH's will that Moses teach it:

Malachi 4:1-6, “For look, the day shall come, burning like a furnace, and all the proud, and every wrongdoer shall be stubble. And the day that shall come shall burn them up,” said יהוה of hosts, “which leaves to them neither root nor branch. But to you who fear My Name the Sun of Righteousness shall arise with healing in His wings. And you shall go out and leap for joy like calves from the stall. And you shall trample the wrongdoers, for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day that I do this,” said יהוה of hosts. Remember the Torah of Mosheh, My servant, which I commanded him in Ḥorĕḇ for all Yisra’yl – laws and right-rulings. See, I am sending you Ěliyah the prophet before the coming of the great and awesome day of יהוה, And he shall turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the hearts of the children to their fathers, lest I come and strike the earth with utter destruction.”

YHWH's Law was before Moses

Genesis 26:5, “Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my Laws.”

and after Moses

Matthew 5:17-18, "“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.."

I agree with what you said here.

John 5:28-30, “Do not marvel at this, because the hour is coming in which all those in the tombs shall hear His voice, and shall come forth – those who have practiced righteousness, to the resurrection of life, and those who have practiced evil matters, to a resurrection of judgment. Of Myself I am unable to do any matter. As I hear, I judge, and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own desire, but the desire of the Father who sent Me.”

John/Yahanan 14:6, "Yahshua proclaimed to him: I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man comes to the Father, except through Me."


John 12:26, “26 Whoever serves me must follow me; and where I am, my servant also will be. My Father will honor the one who serves me.”

Revelation 14:12-13, “Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those guarding the commands of יהוה and the belief of יהושע. And I heard a voice out of the heaven saying to me, Write, Blessed are the dead who die in the Master from now on. Yes, says the Spirit, in order that they rest from their labors, and their works follow with them."

You making a straw man argument here, I never said they were. I actually showed in Hebrews MANY times that they are not exactly the same.

I don't believe is devorce as an option. So again, you put words in my mouth then beat up the things you claim of me.

Yahshua say following YHWH's Law (not Moses) and faith in His work as Passover Lamb are in unity.

Revelation 12:17, “And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to fight with the remnant of her seed, those guarding (G5083) the Commands (G1785) of יהוה and possessing the Witness of יהושע Messiah."

Isaiah 8:20, “To the Law and to the Testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.”

Revelation 14:12-13, “Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those guarding (G5083) the Commands (G1785) of יהוה and the Belief of יהושע. And I heard a voice out of the heaven saying to me, Write, Blessed are the dead who die in the Master from now on. Yes, says the Spirit, in order that they rest from their labors, and their works follow with them.”

andother straw man argument, never said anything about Yahshua needing Moses. However they do sing this song in the heavens

Revelation 15:3, “And they sing the song of Mosheh the servant of יהוה, and the song of the Lamb, saying, “Great and marvelous are Your works, יהוה Strength Almighty! Righteous and true are Your ways, O Sovereign of the set-apart ones!”

1 John 4:19, “We love Him because He first loved us.”

1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy."

Exodus 20:6, “But showing love to thousands who love Me by keeping My Laws.”

John/Yahanan 14:15, “If you love Me, keep My commandments.”

Yahshua still has a second coming, all is not yet fulfilled from the OT, Im not sure you even understand the "pattern" or the "shadow pictures" Paul speaks of...

Fulfilled already - John 19:30, “It is done!”

1. Passover/First-fruits – Yahshua's Sacrifice as the true Passover Lamb (Passover). Yahshua's burial, resurrection and ascension to present Himself as the first of the first fruits to YHWH (First Fruits).

2. Feast of Unleavened Bread – Removal of sin by Yahshua's perfect work as the Passover Sacrifice thus inspiring self reflection and repentance.

3. Feast of Weeks – The blessing and baptizing by Holy Spirit of YHWH, coming into the lives of YHWH’s people stronger than ever.

To be fulfilled in the future - Revelation 21:6, “It is done!”

4. Feast of Trumpets – Yahshua returns at the 7th trumpet of Revelation and gathers the Saints unto eternal life.

5. Day of Atonement – Yahshua leads the army of YHWH to destroy evil rulers of this world as recompense and the adversary is chained for 1,000 years.

6. Feast of Tabernacles – Yahshua dwells on earth for 1,000 years teaching truth and righteousness from the Kingdom of YHWH on earth.

7. The Last Great Day – The adversary is loosed from captivity and swiftly destroyed, the Kingdom of YHWH, YHWH Shammah reigns forever! “It is done!”