What does the "It" refer to?

Nehemiah6 · Oct 1, 2023

ewq1938 said:

This is about the lamest explanation for "IT IS FINISHED" -- which was a shout of victory. What was finished?

1. The perfect work of purchasing our redemption. This was the one sacrifice for sins forever.

2. The Old Covenant era. Christ ushered in the New Covenant by the shedding of His blood.

3. The defeat of sin, death, Hades and Hell, as well as Satan and all his demons and evil angels.

Yes there was only one word recorded in the Greek but correctly translated into English.

ewq1938 · Oct 1, 2023

Nehemiah6 said:

His death was what he was talking about though. He had already said he had finished the work his Father gave him to do in chp 17.

Joh_17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

Joh_19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

Clearly he is speaking about something else in chp 19.

Nehemiah6 · Oct 1, 2023

ewq1938 said:

Does that even make any sense? "His death was finished"? There's no need to carry on in this vein.

Locoponydirtman · Oct 1, 2023

Jesus said , "Tetelistai" which translates to "it is finished" or the work is finished or the mission is finished. The work os the completed work of salvation, to as Jesus said that He came, "to seek and save the lost".

oyster67 · Oct 1, 2023

ewq1938 said:

The second person in the trinity did not die that day. His body may have ceased to function, but Jesus kept busy during those three days. His work that He came here to do is precisely what He was referring to when He said it is finished. (And yes, He did say it more than once.)

ewq1938 · Oct 1, 2023

Nehemiah6 said:

His life was finished, and he died. That's what he was saying when he said, "Finished." He literally died after saying it.

ewq1938 · Oct 1, 2023

Locoponydirtman said:

Yet the day before Jesus said: Joh_17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

Was the work finished one day then finished again the next day? Or maybe what was finished or ending was his life?

Locoponydirtman · Oct 1, 2023

ewq1938 said:

Think of how people speak. A man who knows his death in pending will say things like, my time is up.
Jesus was doing a bit of forshadowing. My work here is done. The when He finished his mission, proclaimed it and gave up His spirit. Lets not forget the new beginning wjen He was ressurrected.

Nehemiah6 · Oct 2, 2023

ewq1938 said:

This is just a silly interpretation. You should have quit while you were ahead.

Pilgrimshope · Oct 2, 2023

evyaniy said:

“He was fully obedient to the law in suffering a violent assault on His Person and body and being”

the law of Moses doesn’t command a sinless man to be tortured and crucified he wasn’t obeying the law when he suffered and died he was bearing the curse of the law that is upon every person who’s ever sinned which is the sentence of death it contains for sinners

“And if a man have committed a sin worthy of death, and he be to be put to death, and thou hang him on a tree: his body shall not remain all night upon the tree, but thou shalt in any wise bury him that day; (for he that is hanged is accursed of God) that thy land be not defiled, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭21:22-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Now listen to what Paul is explaining

“For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

that the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:10-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the law is not for a righteous man like Jesus it is for the unrighteous sinners to impute thier sins upon them

“knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man,

but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, for whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God,

which was committed to our trust.”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭1:9-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

His death on the cross has meaning that wasn’t him o eying Moses law though it had nothing to do with Moses law he was bearing the curse we all sinners earned by our sins that were defined and revealed by the law for this purpose

“Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3:19-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the law given to sinners never had a part with Jesus because he’s not a sinner he is the law giver he wasn’t commanded by Moses law to die for our sins he came to remove our sins and the law for sinners and teach us life and the truth for Gods children

turbosixx · Oct 2, 2023

zeland said:

Based on the context, I suggest He completed everything to fulfilled scripture.

19:28 28 After this, Jesus, knowing that all was now finished, said (to fulfill the Scripture), “I thirst.”
19:30 30 “When Jesus had received the sour wine, he said, It is finished,” and he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.

Luke 24:44 Then he said to them, “These are my words that I spoke to you while I was still with you, that everything written about me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.”

evyaniy · Oct 2, 2023

Pilgrimshope said:

“He was fully obedient to the law in suffering a violent assault on His Person and body and being”

the law of Moses doesn’t command a sinless man to be tortured and crucified he wasn’t obeying the law when he suffered and died he was bearing the curse of the law that is upon every person who’s ever sinned which is the sentence of death it contains for sinners

“And if a man have committed a sin worthy of death, and he be to be put to death, and thou hang him on a tree: his body shall not remain all night upon the tree, but thou shalt in any wise bury him that day; (for he that is hanged is accursed of God) that thy land be not defiled, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭21:22-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Now listen to what Paul is explaining

“For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

that the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:10-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the law is not for a righteous man like Jesus it is for the unrighteous sinners to impute thier sins upon them

“knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man,

but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, for whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God,

which was committed to our trust.”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭1:9-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

His death on the cross has meaning that wasn’t him o eying Moses law though it had nothing to do with Moses law he was bearing the curse we all sinners earned by our sins that were defined and revealed by the law for this purpose

“Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3:19-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the law given to sinners never had a part with Jesus because he’s not a sinner he is the law giver he wasn’t commanded by Moses law to die for our sins he came to remove our sins and the law for sinners and teach us life and the truth for Gods children

He was being obedient to the greatest commandment to Love His Father with all His heart, soul, mind and strength by obeying Him in offering His Life as a Sacrifice for sin to save us. He was obeying the second greatest commandment to love His neighbor as Himself by offering Himself as a Sacrifice for sin and bearing the curse of Law by suffering death to save us.

The part you left in small letters is the promise of life in the Law to Him, The Man that doeth them shall live by them. He is the Man Who did the Law by His complete obedience in giving His life to save us. The Father raised Him to life again as was promised to Him in the Law for being obedient and doing the Father's will to save us.

ewq1938 · Oct 2, 2023

Nehemiah6 said:

I remain ahead actually. My position is stronger than yours which is why you can only make this type of empty claim rather than a direct dispute of what I have said. You also avoided any commenting on Joh 17:4 which further shows your weak position on this subject. Take care.

A day before Christ said he had already finished the work given to him.
On the cross moments before he died, he said "Finished" and then died. Clearly he was announcing his death not repeating something he declared the day before.

montana123 · Oct 2, 2023

zeland said:

Jesus giving His human body as a sacrifice so it would open the door to heaven to allow people to be with God that accept Jesus

zeland · Oct 3, 2023

Locoponydirtman said:

That is the common answer that most people give, but it is not correct. The apostle Paul states that for the work of our salvation to be complete, Christ had to first rise from the dead: “… for if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised. And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is in vain; and you are still in your sins. Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost" (1 Corinthians 15:12-18) – also see Romans 4:25

Now obviously, when Christ was on the cross, and He said "It is finished", He had not yet risen from the dead. So, if we are still in our sins, how could the work of our salvation be complete?

Secondly, the timing is wrong. Starting at the point when Christ said "It is finished", this incorrect position implies a future event, but the "It" refers to something in the past; something that had already happened; something that had already been completed while Christ was alive. We know this because Christ was still living when he made that statement.

Also, their position can't be true because it requires that Christ had to first die for those actions to take place. He had to die for "the debt to be paid in full"; ???; "He had to die for all our sins to be wiped away"???. But, as I just said, "It is finished" refers to a past event which took place before Christ died, not a future event after He died.

One last point, and this is why I put the question marks after the above quotes. The expectations that many people have for Christ's completed work of salvation are incorrect or exaggerated. In whatever manner one wishes to interpret Christ's actions, we do know that Jesus did not mean that our sins had been paid for in a way that removes any obligation on our part to cooperate with God’s grace in order to enter heaven. John 3:36 puts it very well:

“He who believes in the Son has eternal life; he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God rests upon him.”

There are many more scriptures that refute the erroneous belief that Christ’s death "did it all" and that we don’t need to do anything but accept the “free gift of salvation”. Yes. The gift is free, but we must meet the scriptural qualifications in order to be eligible to receive that gift.

notmyown · Oct 3, 2023

zeland said:

what event is that?

And those He predestined, He also called; those He called, He also justified; those He justified, He also glorified. (Rom 8:30)

why does God sometimes speak as though a thing is already done?

evyaniy · Oct 3, 2023

zeland said:

That is the common answer that most people give, but it is not correct. The apostle Paul states that for the work of our salvation to be complete, Christ had to first rise from the dead: “… for if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised. And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is in vain; and you are still in your sins. Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost" (1 Corinthians 15:12-18) – also see Romans 4:25

Now obviously, when Christ was on the cross, and He said "It is finished", He had not yet risen from the dead. So, if we are still in our sins, how could the work of our salvation be complete?

Secondly, the timing is wrong. Starting at the point when Christ said "It is finished", this incorrect position implies a future event, but the "It" refers to something in the past; something that had already happened; something that had already been completed while Christ was alive. We know this because Christ was still living when he made that statement.

Also, their position can't be true because it requires that Christ had to first die for those actions to take place. He had to die for "the debt to be paid in full"; ???; "He had to die for all our sins to be wiped away"???. But, as I just said, "It is finished" refers to a past event which took place before Christ died, not a future event after He died.

One last point, and this is why I put the question marks after the above quotes. The expectations that many people have for Christ's completed work of salvation are incorrect or exaggerated. In whatever manner one wishes to interpret Christ's actions, we do know that Jesus did not mean that our sins had been paid for in a way that removes any obligation on our part to cooperate with God’s grace in order to enter heaven. John 3:36 puts it very well:

“He who believes in the Son has eternal life; he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God rests upon him.”

There are many more scriptures that refute the erroneous belief that Christ’s death "did it all" and that we don’t need to do anything but accept the “free gift of salvation”. Yes. The gift is free, but we must meet the scriptural qualifications in order to be eligible to receive that gift.

oh. so it was a quiz for us. nice. what is your answer then or are you not telling?

Mem · Oct 3, 2023

The Christ came to fulfill the law and so, indeed, 'it' is finished since it wasn't able to give another life or save anyone from eventually perishing. Then He resurrected with proof that He completed the law and went beyond what it asked of Him evidenced by the wounds that remained in His hands and feet and His side. HIs going beyond that which was required of Him, by the law and not speaking to that asked of Him by the Father, determined the recompense that He has rightfully been award, that is, all heaven and earth and those souls that believe on Him, and these are those that He will share with in all the Father has given Him. And this is confirmed by the sealing (guarantee) of the Holy Spirit.

zeland · Oct 21, 2023

evyaniy said:

Dear

evyaniy said:

Dear Evyaniy,

Thanks for your reply. Below is the answer in a nutshell. The article that this is from is too long to post here. Below is an excerpt from the article, but this brief synopsis is missing most of the scriptural documentation to back it up. I realize that, to the average Protestant, what is said below may be hard to understand. For a better understanding, please study the entire article. I have attach the file (PDF) of the article below.

Please feel free to share your thoughts about this.

Zeland

The “it” refers to two simultaneous events, it signifies the conclusion of the Last Supper, and the conclusion of the Last Supper signifies the transformation of the Old Testament Passover sacrifice into the New Testament Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

There is one more important point that many non-Catholic Christians miss. Just as the Old Covenant Passover was both a meal and a sacrifice, so too is the New Covenant Passover of the Eucharist at Mass, also a meal and a Sacrifice. This means that we must now eat our New Covenant Passover Lamb just as the Jews were commanded to eat the lamb in the Old Covenant Passover (Exodus 12:8). Christ Himself gives us this command; “Take and eat….” (Matthew 26:26). Exodus 29:33 also prefigures Christ’s words: “And they shall eat those things with which the atonement was made, to consecrate and to sanctify them: but an outsider shall not eat thereof, because they are holy”.

Now notice also the last part of this verse (29:33), it states an additional requirement concerning who can receive (consume) the Eucharistic Sacrifice: “…but an outsider shall not eat thereof, because they are holy”. This part of the verse prefigures St. Paul’s warning against receiving the Eucharist unworthy

In 1 Corinthians 11:23-29 Paul states; “…Therefore whosoever shall eat this bread, or drink the chalice of the Lord unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and of the blood of the Lord (guilty of the murder of Christ). But let a man examine himself: and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of the chalice. For he that eats and drinks unworthily, eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the body of the Lord”. ... Continued.

Moses_Young · Oct 23, 2023

studentoftheword said:

I thought this word - "tetelestai" also had connotations to debt - "paid in full". As in the price for our sins had been paid in full - no further sacrifice necessary.

What does the "It" refer to?

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