Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked

BULLoney! That's available to all men... if they renew their mind and stand on God's promises of deliverance

I used to be a drug addict... I renewed my mind by being led by the Spirit and now I have zero attraction to drugs. It's not some special "grace"... it's receiving deliverance from sin and is available to ALL believers.

Besides, John Pipe is a known heretic!

LOL I was saying that an OSAS Christian is rejoicing in a grace that sets him free from sin, so I can't agree that the intention behind OSAS is "so they can get freaky deaky".

Wow praise GOD you fully understand all of Gods grace amazing no really. As for John Piper who I do not follow but I only share why I know. That man believes confesses Yeshua/Jesus Christ came in the flesh died on the cross for the worlds sin was buried rose the 3rd day is the only way to the Father. Now my understand about each of us is our Father? Is GOD. Now I may disagree with John Piper but his dad? Even though I know personally and have the same Father I have no right to touch GODS Child.

One day NOT to us Christ says "if you have done it to the least of these you have done it unto me". We really need to be careful how we touch His kids. Yes yes I know each one of us are the true Christian we know God and all those we don't agree with are in error and we need to show them the real truth. NOT!

Oh sorry about this thread. Hmm like I said else where I am a citizen of heaven. I am an ambassador for Christ. This world is not my home. I am not of this world. It is clear here some believe its just a choice. They have the world view as in its just a choice and we can at any moment just change our mind. They do not see nor understand the spiritual side. Know Him do you? Know the great I AM you know the sweet sweet holy Spirit that never speaks of himself but only about Christ and the Father? Now Him not know what some verse says about Him. How can you walk away from what you don't know never in your life have experienced. Oh share about the gifts and the powers of the age to come.

See what should be asked is what matters the most. Do you know Christ died and rose for you today?

I grew up in a mid sized town that had this gigantic baptist church... all the kids I went to school with that went to this church all believed in OSAS and... many of them smoked dope, got drunk, out having sex, rtc, etc, and it was all good to them!

I found out years later after studying some of the stuff those claiming to be Christians believe (and comparing it to God's Word) most OSAS people believe and claim that even if one lives in sin they will still go to Heaven.

OSAS bring reproach upon the Body of Christ and it is a stumbling block to other believers and those out in the world watching see OSAS peoples living in sin claiming they are Christians and reject Jesus over those claiming to be His people being hypocrites.

It's not sound doctrine and it is being used as an occasion for the flesh now more than ever as the falling away has been in full swing now for decades.

His true kids... don't teach false doctrines such as OSAS

There are tares among us claiming to be Christians... and they are the ones teaching false doctrine.

Yup! It's just not true of ALL OSAS, so I can't agree with it.
I do reject OSAS though!

I've run in to a few folks that claim to be OSAS and then disagree with the things the eternal security teachers teach... which is odd cause they wouldn't really be OSAS. Weird.

start at #7,033

1 Peter 1:23 plus 1 John 5:4

God's warnings throughout the book of Jude stands for unbelievers. Jude is exhorting believers to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints (vs. 3) because certain ungodly men have crept in unnoticed. Jude further describes these ungodly men as ones who cause divisions, worldly-minded, devoid of the Spirit. (vs. 19)

In CONTRAST with those who are called, sanctified by God the Father, and PRESERVED in Jesus Christ. (vs. 1) Psalm 37:28 - For the Lord loves justice and does not forsake His saints; They are PRESERVED FOREVER, But the descendants of the wicked shall be cut off.

Later destroyed those who did not believe. They were not all believers. Period.

False. Show me which translation in Jude 1:5 "adds" the word "QUIT" to the text. That is your eisegesis.

Those that Turned Away from the Lord

2 Timothy 4:3,4

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"Nominal" Christians/makes believers turn away from the truth unto fables because they never fully embraced the truth. This is what happens when faith is never firmly rooted and established from the start.

James 5:19,20

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Notice - Brethren, if anyone "among" you wanders from the truth turns a "sinner" from the error of his way.. Some would argue that James says this one who turned from the truth was a "sinner," and was "among" but "not of" the Brethren, then he wasn’t previously saved. That fits 1 John 2:19 - They went out "from" us, but they were "not of" us..

IF this person was a genuine believer, how do we know for sure this is the second death in the lake of fire? In Matthew 26:38, Jesus said: "My soul [psuche] is deeply grieved, to the point of death." Jesus was not saying that His soul was deeply grieved to the point of spiritual death, Rather, Jesus was talking about physical death, his human life. In Revelation 16:3, "The second angel poured out his bowl into the sea, and it became blood like that of a dead man; and every living soul [psuche] in the sea died". In 1 Peter 3:20 "... God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, [psuche-souls] were brought safely (saved from drowning, physical death) through the water" by the ark (Hebrews 11:7). "Soul" is rendered from the Greek word "psuche" and is also translated as "life". The word "psuche" is never translated as "spirit."

Jesus covered our sins in one way (Romans 4:7) by bringing forgiveness for all believers, yet sins can also be covered in a different way. In Proverbs 10:12, we read: Hatred stirs up strife, But love covers all sins. In 1 Peter 4:8, we read: And above all things have fervent love for one another, for "love will cover a multitude of sins." Where there is strife, there is hatred and unless love prevails, the strife will get worse. Love covers offenses and sins when a believer turns back from error. So is this wanderer a professing Christian, whose faith is not genuine, or a sinning Christian, who needs to be restored? For the former, the death spoken of in vs. 20 is the "second death" (Revelation 21:8); for the latter, it is physical death. (1 Corinthians 11:29-32; 1 John 5:16)

2 Peter 2:1-3

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The many who follow the pernicious ways of these false teachers and false prophets are not born again. In contrast with Christ's sheep who hear Christ's voice and follow Him, shall never perish or be snatched from His hand. (John 10:27-28) Matthew 7:22-23 also mentions many who Christ never knew.

Jude 1:4

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In Jude 1:4, they are described as certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are godless men, who change the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord. In verse 12, they are described as spots in your love feasts, while they feast with you without fear, serving only themselves. They are clouds without water, carried about by the winds; late autumn trees without fruit, twice dead, uprooted. Also void of the Spirit. *This is not descriptive of Christians/genuine believers, so there is no loss of salvation here.

Denying, contradicting, opposing Jesus' teachings is descriptive of false teachers/make believers.

Jude 1:17-21

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Pay attention to having not the Spirit/void of the Spirit. These are godless men in contrast with but you, beloved.. those who are called, sanctified by God the Father, and PRESERVED in Jesus Christ.

Again, we have ungodly men have crept in unnoticed and are further described as ungodly men who cause divisions, worldly-minded, devoid of the Spirit IN CONTRAST with those who are called, sanctified by God the Father, and PRESERVED in Jesus Christ.

CONTINUED...

JimmyTheLock said:

Acts 20:27-30

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There are genuine Christians and there are "nominal" Christians. There are genuine believers and there are make believers mixed together in various churches (and on various Christian forum sites) so this should be no surprise. From "among yourselves" men will rise up, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after themselves. 1 John 2:19 - They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.

False. That is your eisegesis. Show me the words "lose salvation" in scripture. ALL false religions and cults that promote salvation by works strongly oppose OSAS which has always been a major red flag for me.

False! We were all born with a sinful nature. (So why was Jesus born of a virgin and conceived by the Holy Spirit?) Other translations clarify this truth even clearer.

Psalm 51:5

AMPC - Behold, I was brought forth in [a state of] iniquity; my mother was sinful who conceived me [and I too am sinful].
CSB - Indeed, I was guilty when I was born; I was sinful when my mother conceived me.
CEB - Yes, I was born in guilt, in sin, from the moment my mother conceived me.
HCSB - Indeed, I was guilty when I was born; I was sinful when my mother conceived me.
NIV - Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me.
NLV - See, I was born in sin and was in sin from my very beginning.
NLT - For I was born a sinner— yes, from the moment my mother conceived me.

Read further. I don't teach universalism.

Romans 5:18
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of One the free gift came upon ALL men unto justification of life.

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How about a little context. Romans 5:16 - And the gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned. For the judgment which came from one offense resulted in condemnation, but the free gift which came from many offenses resulted in justification. 17 For if by the one man’s offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ. 18 Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life. 19 For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man’s obedience many will be made righteous.

*The context here is all men in Adam and all men in Christ. All men in Adam are condemned and all men in Christ are justified.

Oh the irony. Who is cherry picking now? You ignored the context in Romans 5 in order to fit your preconceived ideas.

Thanks to Adam we are all born into sin. That's not God's fault and it doesn't change the fact that God still forms us in the womb.

Not being held responsible for their father's sins still does not change the fact we are all born in sin. (Psalm 51:5)

Yet we are all still born in sin. (Psalm 51:5)

And a sinful nature. (Romans 7:18)

What Jesus did caused righteousness to come upon all who are justified.

Titus 2:11,12

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In Titus 2:11-12, the grace of God that brings salvation has "appeared to all men" (yet that does not mean that all men will accept God's gift of eternal life through faith). God's grace (enabling power) is unmerited and brings salvation through faith (Ephesians 2:8) and in Titus 2:11-12, the "grace of God" also teaches us to deny ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously and godly in the present age. Nothing here about salvation by works.

2 Corinthians 5:21
For He hath made Him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him.

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We are made the righteousness of God in Him through faith. Philippians 3:9 - and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith.

Only those abiding IN CHRIST can be righteous

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More eisegesis on your part. You are absolutely obsessed with the topic of losing salvation. Works-salvationists typically are. In regard to the prodigal son, all three parables in Luke 15 were in rebuke to the Pharisees and scribes who complained, saying, “This Man receives sinners and eats with them." (vs. 2) Eternal IN-securists will argue that the prodigal son was spiritually alive, then spiritually died (lost his salvation) and was spiritually alive again (regained his salvation) from Luke 15:32 based on certain translations which read: ..thy brother was dead, and is alive AGAIN (KJV) ..for your brother was dead and is alive AGAIN (NKJV) ..this brother of yours was dead and is alive AGAIN (NIV)

Yet others will argue that in this parable, being made "alive AGAIN" foreshadows the "born AGAIN" experience that Jesus spoke of in John 3:3. Of course Jesus wasn't talking about being born again spiritually again and again. We are born once physically and born "again" once spiritually.

I find it interesting that certain translations of Luke 15:32 simply say your brother was dead, and is alive; he was lost, and is found (ESV); your brother was dead, but now he is alive. He was lost, but now he is found (NCV); this brother of yours was dead and has come to life; he was lost and has been found (NRS); this brother of yours was dead and has begun to live and was lost and has been found (NASB).

Show me the words "stop confessing" Christ in scripture.

It's actually Romans 11. The Israelites (Jews) were in the olive tree to begin with because they were the "natural branches" and not because they were all saved. Because of their unbelief and hard hearts God removed His gracious hand from them as a people overall and broke them off from His goodness (but only for a time after which they will be restored - Romans 11:24-26). We Gentiles have now been grafted into God's goodness and are the recipients of His blessings. Paul's warning is that we should not become arrogant because we might lose the goodness and blessings of God just like the Jews lost the goodness and blessings of God.

Professing Christians, who are Gentiles, are corporately in outward covenant with Christ so, it would appear that Romans 11 is speaking about the question of collective ecclesiology and not individual soteriology. I see the warning to this collective body, which is corporately joined to Christ and is in a covenant relationship, but how could this mean that every individual in it is in saving union with Christ? Hence the "cut off." Union with Christ applies to the elect, and only for the elect are, "the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable." (verse 29) But since non-elect covenant members are mixed in, Christ clearly appears to have non-elect branches, like Judas Iscariot (John 15:1-8) and while they may be joined outwardly in covenant with Christ, since they have professed faith in Jesus, the faith of some of them is spurious because they were never truly saved to begin with, even though they were among genuine believers. (1 John 2:19)

To believe in vain is to believe without cause or without effect, to no purpose. If, as some are saying in Corinth, there is no resurrection, then faith is vain and worthless (vs. 14). The people who fail to hold fast to the word (the gospel) that Paul preached in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, demonstrated that they "believed in vain" (did not truly believe). Saving belief in the gospel was never firmly rooted or established from the start.

The present tense of the word "justified" implies that these Galatians were contemplating justification by the law. They were getting side tracked by legalistic teachers. "You who are trying to be justified by the law have fallen away from grace," but had they fully come to that place yet? Galatians 3:3 reads: Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh? The middle voice implies "making yourselves perfect" by means of self effort. The present tense indicates that the action is in progress and that there is still time to correct the error.

If these Galatians lost their salvation and it was a done deal, then why didn't Paul simply say you "lost your salvation" and I'm done with you? Instead, in verse 10, he said - I have confidence in you, in the Lord, that you will have no other mind; but he who troubles you shall bear his judgment, whoever he is. Why would Paul have confidence in these Galatians if they lost their salvation and it's all over for them? In verse 12, Paul uses hyperbole, As for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves!

Those who "permanently" fall away fit 1 John 2:19. So, Paul did not say these Galatians lost their salvation and it's all over for them. Nowhere do we find the specific words, "lost salvation" in scripture. When Jesus was arrested, the 11 remaining disciples were said to "fall away" in Matthew 26:31-35. Did they lose their salvation? No. This was not permanent, but a temporary weak moment.

People can temporarily fall away from Christ during a weak moment, as we see in Matthew 26:31-35 with the disciples, yet this was not permanent. They were not cut off. Those who permanently fall away and are cut off demonstrate that saving faith was never firmly rooted and established from the start.

In regard to 1 John 2:28, to abide means to remain in the same place or position. Those who abide in Him expose themselves as genuine believers. Those who shrink away from Him in shame at His coming expose themselves as make believers. The sheep and the goats, the wheat and the tares will be separated when Jesus returns.

When I was growing up, I've seen plenty of kids who attended churches that taught NOSAS (including the Roman Catholic church and Pentecostal churches) who smoked dope, got drunk, out having sex, etc.. etc.. as well. You can find hypocrites in all kinds of churches. Don't blame this all on OSAS. God's true saints are preserved forever (Psalm 37:28) regardless of hypocrites in various churches. So which church do you attend now?

That's a lot of "I" and no mention of Jesus.

Those who deny eternal security do reveal that they believe that Salvation by Grace depends more on mans freewill than Gods Grace. They Believe the Power of God can be successfully resisted and thwarted Rom 9:19

19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

Dan 4:35

35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

Eph 3:7-8


7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;

Those who deny eternal security do reveal they deny 1 Jn 5:18

18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

Being a sheep is a choice.

You either didn't read or didn't understand the verses I posted. Quite clear - God alone chose His sheep.

Correct, All "The Blame" Should Be On God, And, All The Passages He Gave For:

His Assurance Of Eternal Salvation
+
His OPERATION On All New-born babes In Christ!
+
His Eternal Life Insurance

Amen! Hallelujah!! Praise The Lord, Now, and Forever!!!

No, God did not make all babies sinners... what happened was we were all born in to a world full of sin and darkness and we all began to sin at some point after having been born.

YOU are welcome to claim God formed you in your mother's womb as a sinner, and it's God's fault you are still a sinner and you can't help but to sin everyday in thought word and deed (all the calvinist say this 'bout themselves cause they don't know the Lord) ... but leave me out of it and that's not what happened to me,

The God I serve is not the monster calvinists make Him out to be with their doctrines of demons.



OSAS is a doctrine of devils that can only believed when one adheres to a select few happy verses and rejects the whole counsel of God by ignoring His warnings and claim they don't count... as though God was lying or something which is calvinist eisegesis which is quite hilarious actually in a cartoonish kinda way.


Uh huh... and I turned to the Lord Jesus Christ by the leading and power of the Holy Ghost and I received His promises and instructions to turn away from MY sins... and He accepted me!

2 Corinthians 6:17
Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,

Now, the OSAS greasy grace changers will tell you that there's no need to come out from those in the world and there's not need to quit doing that which is unclean.

They claim such heresies as all of our future sins are already forgiven even before we commit them and the Lord cannot even see out sin at all so it';s all good... we are saved even if wee continue living in sin.