The End Times: Who is the Beast and the Antichrist?
- Thread starter 2ndTimeIsTheCharm
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Rev 18:1
And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.
Rev 18:2
And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
Rev 18:3
For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
Rev 18:4
And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
Rev 18:5
For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.
Rev 18:6
Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.
Rev 18:7
How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.
Rev 18:8
Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.
Rev 18:9
And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,
Rev 18:10
Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.
Rev 18:11
And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:
Rev 18:12
The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble,
Rev 18:13
And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.
Rev 18:14
And the fruits that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all.
Rev 18:15
The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing,
Rev 18:16
And saying, Alas, alas, that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls!
Rev 18:17
For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off,
Rev 18:18
And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city!
Rev 18:19
And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas, that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.
Rev 18:20
Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.
Rev 18:21
And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.
Rev 18:22
And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee;
Rev 18:23
And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.
Rev 18:24
And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.
Here we see that "Babylon the great" (vs. 2), "that great city Babylon" (vss. 10, 21), "that great city" (vss. 16 19), and "this great city" (vs . 18) are all one and the same city. Also, these are five of the remaining eight verses that I alluded to in an earlier post where the words "great city" appear in the book of Revelation, and like the other two that I already cited, these five all point directly to Jerusalem as well.
There are multiple ways to prove this, but I will just quickly mention two of them.
First, we need to take a good look at the "merchandise' that "the merchants" (vs. 11) were providing to "this great city" in verses 12 and 13. It can easily be proven that all of the "merchandise" listed there has to do with the building and maintenance of a temple, and with temple sacrifices, and, of course, the temple always stands in Jerusalem.
Second, we need to notice that in her, or in "this great city," was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth (vs. 24). Jesus told us exactly what "great city" is responsible for the blood of the prophets and all that we slain upon the earth when he said:
Matthew 23:34-37
"Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city: That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar. Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation. O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!"
In fact, Jesus said that it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem.
Luke 13:33-34
"Nevertheless I must walk to day, and to morrow, and the day following: for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem. O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not!"
Babylon the great is Jerusalem, and there are several other ways to prove this as well.
And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.
Rev 18:2
And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
Rev 18:3
For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
Rev 18:4
And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
Rev 18:5
For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.
Rev 18:6
Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.
Rev 18:7
How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.
Rev 18:8
Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.
Rev 18:9
And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,
Rev 18:10
Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.
Rev 18:11
And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:
Rev 18:12
The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble,
Rev 18:13
And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.
Rev 18:14
And the fruits that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all.
Rev 18:15
The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing,
Rev 18:16
And saying, Alas, alas, that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls!
Rev 18:17
For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off,
Rev 18:18
And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city!
Rev 18:19
And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas, that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.
Rev 18:20
Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.
Rev 18:21
And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.
Rev 18:22
And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee;
Rev 18:23
And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.
Rev 18:24
And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.
Here we see that "Babylon the great" (vs. 2), "that great city Babylon" (vss. 10, 21), "that great city" (vss. 16 19), and "this great city" (vs . 18) are all one and the same city. Also, these are five of the remaining eight verses that I alluded to in an earlier post where the words "great city" appear in the book of Revelation, and like the other two that I already cited, these five all point directly to Jerusalem as well.
There are multiple ways to prove this, but I will just quickly mention two of them.
First, we need to take a good look at the "merchandise' that "the merchants" (vs. 11) were providing to "this great city" in verses 12 and 13. It can easily be proven that all of the "merchandise" listed there has to do with the building and maintenance of a temple, and with temple sacrifices, and, of course, the temple always stands in Jerusalem.
Second, we need to notice that in her, or in "this great city," was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth (vs. 24). Jesus told us exactly what "great city" is responsible for the blood of the prophets and all that we slain upon the earth when he said:
Matthew 23:34-37
"Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city: That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar. Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation. O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!"
In fact, Jesus said that it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem.
Luke 13:33-34
"Nevertheless I must walk to day, and to morrow, and the day following: for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem. O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not!"
Babylon the great is Jerusalem, and there are several other ways to prove this as well.
-
2
- Show all
The Bible says that the prince to come will be from the people that overthrew Jerusalem which is the Roman Empire, so he will be a Caucasian man, and he will confirm a covenant for 7 years which is a peace treaty in the Middle East.
The United Nations supports new age organizations and is with them as well as Science, and it is the new age movement that will cause the world to rebel against God by changing the current belief system of a personal God, and heaven, to the new age movement that exalts people to evolve to be spiritual, and there is no God, which the antichrist will think to change times, and laws.
The new age movement is a Caucasian led plan, and they focus on the Aryans which they say are white people.
They made sure they had people in position in all the nations governments, and there will be a new Pope that will go along with the new age movement interpretation of the Bible.
When the New Age Christ establishes peace in the Middle East then all the nations will come together as one for they are working together.
They do not believe in a God anymore and the new age movement is their religion, and reality now, but many people of those nations especially Arab nations will rebel but the nations governments will be together.
The world will be split in to 10 sections with a leader in each section, the 10 horn kingdom, who will be in league with the New Age Christ, and he will push the agenda of the new age movement.
Any conflicts between nations is a scare tactic to scare the world to come together to work for peace on Earth.
Daniel 7 talks about 4 kingdoms that shall come up one after the other that is different than each other which are the 4 ways of people, and although they all went by those 4 ways, 1 of those ways was their chief mode of operation.
Babylon- represents human religion, the occult, and the kingdom of man after they lost the revelation of God.
Medo-Persia- represents cruelty in war.
Greece- represents human wisdom.
The Roman Empire- represents pushing for power, territory, dominion, which they were different than the other 3 that they were more determined to gain territory.
The first 3 beasts will never have physical dominion again but their lives were prolonged for a time, and a season, which means their ways are still on Earth.
The Roman Empire does not lose their physical dominion until Jesus puts down the world, and out of them shall come 10 horns, which they shall devour the whole Earth, tread it down, and stamp upon the residue of it, which the new age movement is a Caucasian led plan that took over the world.
The antichrist shall come from the 10 horns, who come from the Roman Empire.
The 4 kingdoms ways are still on Earth, and all show up at the beast kingdom, the 10 horn kingdom, Roman Empire, the physical dominion of the kingdom.
With the ways of a lion, Babylon, human religion, the occult, the kingdom of man.
The ways of a bear, Medo-Persia, physical cruelty in war to take away all people that oppose them.
The ways of a leopard, Greece, human wisdom.
All 4 kingdoms chief mode of operation are at the beast kingdom, the kingdom of man in its entirety.
The Roman Empire has the physical dominion.
Babylon will never have physical dominion again, but her ways are still on Earth, which this is Babylon in spirit, which she represents human religion, the occult, and the kingdom of man, which is what the beast kingdom is all about.
When the Roman Empire embraced Christianity they did not get rid of their occult, pagan ways, and it became their foundation for the interpreting of scriptures, and that is why they interpret the Bible the way they do, and they can also change along with the world because of that which is what they are doing.
Since the Roman Empire has the dominion, and the world will be going along with the new age movement, and the Roman Catholic Church is her religious institution then she will go along with the new age movement interpretation of the Bible.
Pope Francis elected 21 new Cardinals, and the current number of cardinals eligible to pick the next Pope stands at 136 which 99, or 72%, of whom were picked by Pope Francis.
Pope Francis picked the majority of the Cardinals that will choose the next Pope who will be the false prophet as he will be in league with the New Age Christ and will head up the unified religious system, and the Vatican will be the headquarters.
The new Pope will be the false prophet, and Pope Francis was setting up the majority of the Cardinals to elect the next Pope, so there will be no doubt that he would be chosen that would go along with the New Age Christ.
As far as the antichrist I do not know who it would be.
He does not regard any god so that rules out anyone that believes in a personal god.
He will have no desire of women so that rules out any man that has dated women, had a girlfriend, or has been married, which Putin has been married.
It is not too far off the antichrist will start negotiating peace in the Middle East, so we will know who he is then.
And when the Bible says he will have no desire of women does not mean he is homosexual, but his only goal is to rule the world, not to be involved with women, although he will uphold the universal law that a man and a woman cannot come together for population reduction, which they do not believe they have to keep the human race going on by birth for they will evolve to be spiritual in which they will live forever.
The Roman Empire has the physical dominion of the beast kingdom which is Babylon in spirit, and the false prophet will be the Pope who will be the head of a unified religious system with all religions interpreted by the new age movement, and the Vatican the headquarters.
But I do not know who will be the antichrist, beast.
You would have to find man who does not believe in a personal God, has no desire of women, but not homosexual, is in to the occult, and in to the new age movement.
Dan 8:23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.
He is probably tucked away someplace, and is only interested in occult practices, which he would not have to be well known for he will speak like no other man they ever heard, and that will be very convincing to them to listen to him without having any prior status on the world scene.
This scripture is speaking when he claims to be God three and one half years after the confirming of the 7 years covenant, and would be the biggest player on the world scene, and be considered a king, but when he negotiates peace he will still be influenced by Satan to speak like no other person spoke.
Joh 7:32 The Pharisees heard that the people murmured such things concerning him; and the Pharisees and the chief priests sent officers to take him.
Joh 7:45 Then came the officers to the chief priests and Pharisees; and they said unto them, Why have ye not brought him?
Joh 7:46 The officers answered, Never man spake like this man.
Jesus was also a man who spoke like no other person spoke, but in a good way, for the officers did not arrest Him for they said He spoke like no other man spoke, which He spoke so bold, and convincing, that He caused doubt in their mind, and they thought we better leave this man alone for if He is telling the truth we do not want to be going against God, for they would not be afraid of Him unless He brought up that He was from God, and they better heed what He says.
The antichrist will speak like no other man of the world spoke, and sound convincing to the world that they will go along with him.
So he does not have to be a great person of status in the world when he starts negotiating peace in the Middle East, and getting the people to be on board with his agenda.
I believe he is not anyone that we have seen, or know exists, but the top leaders of Israel, and the nations governments probably know who he is so he will not have to be well known for him to negotiate peace.
The reason I say the top leaders of Israel might know who he is could be because they are following the Kabbalah which is an occult, mystic, interpretation of the Bible, like the new age movement that is mystic, and of the occult, and interpret the Bible that way, and the New Age Christ is from the new age movement, and will push that agenda, so they would be compatible with each other.
The nations governments might know who the New Age Christ is and because of that he can negotiate peace, and does not have to be a well known person with status in the world because they are waiting for him to do it.
So he does not have to be Putin, or Obama, or anyone else that has status in the world, but can be tucked away somewhere waiting to do this.
The United Nations supports new age organizations and is with them as well as Science, and it is the new age movement that will cause the world to rebel against God by changing the current belief system of a personal God, and heaven, to the new age movement that exalts people to evolve to be spiritual, and there is no God, which the antichrist will think to change times, and laws.
The new age movement is a Caucasian led plan, and they focus on the Aryans which they say are white people.
They made sure they had people in position in all the nations governments, and there will be a new Pope that will go along with the new age movement interpretation of the Bible.
When the New Age Christ establishes peace in the Middle East then all the nations will come together as one for they are working together.
They do not believe in a God anymore and the new age movement is their religion, and reality now, but many people of those nations especially Arab nations will rebel but the nations governments will be together.
The world will be split in to 10 sections with a leader in each section, the 10 horn kingdom, who will be in league with the New Age Christ, and he will push the agenda of the new age movement.
Any conflicts between nations is a scare tactic to scare the world to come together to work for peace on Earth.
Daniel 7 talks about 4 kingdoms that shall come up one after the other that is different than each other which are the 4 ways of people, and although they all went by those 4 ways, 1 of those ways was their chief mode of operation.
Babylon- represents human religion, the occult, and the kingdom of man after they lost the revelation of God.
Medo-Persia- represents cruelty in war.
Greece- represents human wisdom.
The Roman Empire- represents pushing for power, territory, dominion, which they were different than the other 3 that they were more determined to gain territory.
The first 3 beasts will never have physical dominion again but their lives were prolonged for a time, and a season, which means their ways are still on Earth.
The Roman Empire does not lose their physical dominion until Jesus puts down the world, and out of them shall come 10 horns, which they shall devour the whole Earth, tread it down, and stamp upon the residue of it, which the new age movement is a Caucasian led plan that took over the world.
The antichrist shall come from the 10 horns, who come from the Roman Empire.
The 4 kingdoms ways are still on Earth, and all show up at the beast kingdom, the 10 horn kingdom, Roman Empire, the physical dominion of the kingdom.
With the ways of a lion, Babylon, human religion, the occult, the kingdom of man.
The ways of a bear, Medo-Persia, physical cruelty in war to take away all people that oppose them.
The ways of a leopard, Greece, human wisdom.
All 4 kingdoms chief mode of operation are at the beast kingdom, the kingdom of man in its entirety.
The Roman Empire has the physical dominion.
Babylon will never have physical dominion again, but her ways are still on Earth, which this is Babylon in spirit, which she represents human religion, the occult, and the kingdom of man, which is what the beast kingdom is all about.
When the Roman Empire embraced Christianity they did not get rid of their occult, pagan ways, and it became their foundation for the interpreting of scriptures, and that is why they interpret the Bible the way they do, and they can also change along with the world because of that which is what they are doing.
Since the Roman Empire has the dominion, and the world will be going along with the new age movement, and the Roman Catholic Church is her religious institution then she will go along with the new age movement interpretation of the Bible.
Pope Francis elected 21 new Cardinals, and the current number of cardinals eligible to pick the next Pope stands at 136 which 99, or 72%, of whom were picked by Pope Francis.
Pope Francis picked the majority of the Cardinals that will choose the next Pope who will be the false prophet as he will be in league with the New Age Christ and will head up the unified religious system, and the Vatican will be the headquarters.
The new Pope will be the false prophet, and Pope Francis was setting up the majority of the Cardinals to elect the next Pope, so there will be no doubt that he would be chosen that would go along with the New Age Christ.
As far as the antichrist I do not know who it would be.
He does not regard any god so that rules out anyone that believes in a personal god.
He will have no desire of women so that rules out any man that has dated women, had a girlfriend, or has been married, which Putin has been married.
It is not too far off the antichrist will start negotiating peace in the Middle East, so we will know who he is then.
And when the Bible says he will have no desire of women does not mean he is homosexual, but his only goal is to rule the world, not to be involved with women, although he will uphold the universal law that a man and a woman cannot come together for population reduction, which they do not believe they have to keep the human race going on by birth for they will evolve to be spiritual in which they will live forever.
The Roman Empire has the physical dominion of the beast kingdom which is Babylon in spirit, and the false prophet will be the Pope who will be the head of a unified religious system with all religions interpreted by the new age movement, and the Vatican the headquarters.
But I do not know who will be the antichrist, beast.
You would have to find man who does not believe in a personal God, has no desire of women, but not homosexual, is in to the occult, and in to the new age movement.
Dan 8:23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.
He is probably tucked away someplace, and is only interested in occult practices, which he would not have to be well known for he will speak like no other man they ever heard, and that will be very convincing to them to listen to him without having any prior status on the world scene.
This scripture is speaking when he claims to be God three and one half years after the confirming of the 7 years covenant, and would be the biggest player on the world scene, and be considered a king, but when he negotiates peace he will still be influenced by Satan to speak like no other person spoke.
Joh 7:32 The Pharisees heard that the people murmured such things concerning him; and the Pharisees and the chief priests sent officers to take him.
Joh 7:45 Then came the officers to the chief priests and Pharisees; and they said unto them, Why have ye not brought him?
Joh 7:46 The officers answered, Never man spake like this man.
Jesus was also a man who spoke like no other person spoke, but in a good way, for the officers did not arrest Him for they said He spoke like no other man spoke, which He spoke so bold, and convincing, that He caused doubt in their mind, and they thought we better leave this man alone for if He is telling the truth we do not want to be going against God, for they would not be afraid of Him unless He brought up that He was from God, and they better heed what He says.
The antichrist will speak like no other man of the world spoke, and sound convincing to the world that they will go along with him.
So he does not have to be a great person of status in the world when he starts negotiating peace in the Middle East, and getting the people to be on board with his agenda.
I believe he is not anyone that we have seen, or know exists, but the top leaders of Israel, and the nations governments probably know who he is so he will not have to be well known for him to negotiate peace.
The reason I say the top leaders of Israel might know who he is could be because they are following the Kabbalah which is an occult, mystic, interpretation of the Bible, like the new age movement that is mystic, and of the occult, and interpret the Bible that way, and the New Age Christ is from the new age movement, and will push that agenda, so they would be compatible with each other.
The nations governments might know who the New Age Christ is and because of that he can negotiate peace, and does not have to be a well known person with status in the world because they are waiting for him to do it.
So he does not have to be Putin, or Obama, or anyone else that has status in the world, but can be tucked away somewhere waiting to do this.
-
1
- Show all
I'm not convinced Babylon is Jerusalem.
Looking at the two examples you offer in Rev 21:10 "that great city" is holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, and the Rev 11:8 'the great city,' which is spiritually Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified, the former is without question speaking of an city as expansive as it is high and a "holy" descriptive indicates its distinction from, its separateness or different from, the world. And in the same vein, the descriptive phrase "which is spiritually Sodom and Egypt," including within a city on the border with Jordan and the entire country of Egypt seems to also be alluding to its expansive reach, and 'where their lord also was crucified' may be referring back to 'in the streets' or the 'public square' rather than Jerusalem, especially given that "all tribes and tongues and nations will view their bodies," and also given that our Lord was crucified "for the sins of the world."
However, the best argument for Jerusalem being Babylon is that reference to the Lord's lament over Jerusalem as that "which killest the prophets," and "
However, after declaring, "behold, your house is left to you desolate," the Lord prophesies, "You will not see Me again until you say, 'Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord.'"
Here, it seems apparent to me that, Jerusalem will see the Lord again, saying "Blessed is He," and so will not be utterly destroyed, as will Babylon, but rather indeed be made a new creation.
Looking at the two examples you offer in Rev 21:10 "that great city" is holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, and the Rev 11:8 'the great city,' which is spiritually Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified, the former is without question speaking of an city as expansive as it is high and a "holy" descriptive indicates its distinction from, its separateness or different from, the world. And in the same vein, the descriptive phrase "which is spiritually Sodom and Egypt," including within a city on the border with Jordan and the entire country of Egypt seems to also be alluding to its expansive reach, and 'where their lord also was crucified' may be referring back to 'in the streets' or the 'public square' rather than Jerusalem, especially given that "all tribes and tongues and nations will view their bodies," and also given that our Lord was crucified "for the sins of the world."
However, the best argument for Jerusalem being Babylon is that reference to the Lord's lament over Jerusalem as that "which killest the prophets," and "
However, after declaring, "behold, your house is left to you desolate," the Lord prophesies, "You will not see Me again until you say, 'Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord.'"
Here, it seems apparent to me that, Jerusalem will see the Lord again, saying "Blessed is He," and so will not be utterly destroyed, as will Babylon, but rather indeed be made a new creation.
-
2
- Show all
Hi, You want me to post verses that brought me to my conviction? That's a lot verses. They start way back even before Daniel, with the commandment to build the temple. Oh but wait, on that note, before I go on. The commandment was to "build the temple", not "rebuild it", hint! But, I have prayed, and prayed about this subject, and yes, there is not much being written about it because, honestly, most everyone is just speculating what one scripture means, and applying their own understanding without backing it up with scripture.
I am going to talk about the books and passages and let you look them up and read them for yourself, and you will understand my insight on this. By the way, I claim no credit, or glory, and everyone is responsible for testing the spirits to decern if they are of God or not, that includes anything that is written here. Christ Jesus is the only one who is worthy to break the seals, open the book and understand, but it is the Holy Spirit who reveals and shows us things to come. Okay, so here goes....
* The whole end time events starts in the Old Testament even before Daniel 8, thru chapt 12., and the Book of Revelation is all about events that is going to happen to "Israel". The Timeline Of Events is concerning Israel.
The seventy weeks is a time line overview that starts with the command to build the temple. The time line goes uninterrupted until the death of Christ, and then, it skips to the time events of the book of Revelation.
The story line begins in Daniel talking about Persia, and the Prophecy of the Ram. (Alexander the Great) The prophecy of Alexander the Great, and it explains how Alexander the Great's empire just (fades away from the inside.) But, the scriptures in Daniel start referring to the King of the South, and the King of the North, and how they keep warring with each other. And, then I confirmed that one of the Kings it was talking about was Egypt! And, so, I researched Egypt to find out who Egypt's all time enemy is, and as it turned out, it "is" Iran. Modern Day "Persia". But, how does Israel fit in to this story line between Iran and Egypt, you ask? I'm getting to that.
The scripture in Daniel says that a Princess from Egypt marries a prince of the South, "Persia", and the scripture says it was for political purposes for an agreement between the two Kings. This actually happened.
*The first Shaw of Iran, who by the way titled himself, "king of Kings", yeah, he did that...And, when Christ comes back, He'll be taking that title back also! But, a princess from Egypt marries the prince, just as the scripture said, and the marriage fell apart just as the scripture said it would. In fact, she divorced him, I think it was in 1945. She was called the queen of Iran until after her divorce.
Wait! It gets better!
* In Daniel 11, If I remember correctly, The scripture talks about how he turns his face towards the Islands and causes a reproach to turn upon himself, and talks about him turning his fact towards his own country, and it talks about how he is not found. It was all confusion until I understood that there was more than one person being referred to.
*The Shaw of Iran had a prime minister start causing him problems because the Iranian Oil was foreign controlled, Yep! The Big Name British ~ "British Petroleum" suckered Iran into selling off their royalties. It caused all kinds of problems, including, "invading the Isles", just as the scriptures said. The Shaw of Iran was kicked out of power and the prime minister took his place.
(Hey! Don't complain! You asked for this! LOL) And, you have to understand the backstory if you are going to understand the book of Revelation.
*But, the CIA and Britain's MI6 got together and did a military coup and put back in power. The Iranian people were not going to have it, and The Shaw of Iran said that he would rather go into exile than to fire on his on people to force public civility. The scriptures says "and was not found." That's why he was not found. He died in Exile in Egypt.
*Back to the princess~ Part of the back story ~ The scripture says that the King of Egypt is poisoned by the people who feed him his meat. Yep! The last King of Egypt was the father of princess who married The Shaw of Iran, and he died in Rome while eating, suspected of being poisoned. (As you know now, my research and conviction is based in facts as well as scripture.)
Okay, so now the good stuff.
*The First Anti-Christ that the scriptures talk about, Dan. 11, I think, comes to power after the Shaw of Iran. He died in office just as the scripture said. The second one is still in office, even as you read this, and get this...the person who was the mainly responsible for the Iranian Revolution is Iran's President. No body in Iran likes him and he is wanted by the world organization for mass murder!
* Up to date) Nobody actually knows the identity of the person who is going to be causing all the havoc in Israel, but because of the back story, I truly believe Iran is going to be the one who puts him in power.
The Book of Revelations.
* ten horns, seven horns, seven hills.)
Seven hills is the location where all the havoc is going to be. Jerusalem is built on "seven" hills.
(Ten horns, seven horns.) Ten kingdoms is going to align themselves with this person known as the "Beast". One of the ten will subdue 3 of the kingdoms and the alliance will become seven, that give military power to the beast.
*The Beast will put his headquarters, "between the seas". I'm thinking it is MT Sinai, since the planned corridor by Saudi Arabia, and the middle east is a straight line through the Suez Canal, and the location is between the Mediterranean and Red Sea.
The rest of the Book of Revelation is very descriptive about how arrogant and bad he is going to become, and that he will kill anyone who challenges him, and refuses to take the mark of the beast. I do want to say one thing though. Many believe that he will control the entire world economy. I don't.. The scriptures say, "
Who is like him, who can make war with him. So, there are other world countries that are free to fight against him. I think these events will be isolated to the middle east, but he will have some influence on world economy. You spoke about, pre-trib, mid-trib, post trib. rapture.. Scriptures says in Thes. "at the last trump:, Christ will come back.
*Seven seals, Seven Trump Events, and seven plagues of the wrath of God, sounded by trumps."
Get this, There are seven Seals, but the seventh seal, is the seven trump events. Each trump even fall under one of the other six seals, and the seven plagues of the wrath of God is at the last trump event that sounds in Revelation. I have a whole study on the issue. Leaders of Israel sell out their own people for money, things get really, really bad for Christians and Jewish people alike. And, my own testimony: I had a night vision of the beast, without the mother of harlots sitting on it's back around year two thousand or two thousand and one. The world has been a holding pattern for almost 25years! (That's my story, and it is pretty detailed with scripture and facts.) But, I tell people whenever I can, the scripture says, "they loved not their life unto death." The closer we walk with God, the easier it is to be "Christlike" in a lost and dying world, and food for thought, there are only two ways to put on immortality, through the grave, or at the end of the thousand year reign. If given the opportunity, I choose through the grave. (Always in Christ) rdm
I am going to talk about the books and passages and let you look them up and read them for yourself, and you will understand my insight on this. By the way, I claim no credit, or glory, and everyone is responsible for testing the spirits to decern if they are of God or not, that includes anything that is written here. Christ Jesus is the only one who is worthy to break the seals, open the book and understand, but it is the Holy Spirit who reveals and shows us things to come. Okay, so here goes....
* The whole end time events starts in the Old Testament even before Daniel 8, thru chapt 12., and the Book of Revelation is all about events that is going to happen to "Israel". The Timeline Of Events is concerning Israel.
The seventy weeks is a time line overview that starts with the command to build the temple. The time line goes uninterrupted until the death of Christ, and then, it skips to the time events of the book of Revelation.
The story line begins in Daniel talking about Persia, and the Prophecy of the Ram. (Alexander the Great) The prophecy of Alexander the Great, and it explains how Alexander the Great's empire just (fades away from the inside.) But, the scriptures in Daniel start referring to the King of the South, and the King of the North, and how they keep warring with each other. And, then I confirmed that one of the Kings it was talking about was Egypt! And, so, I researched Egypt to find out who Egypt's all time enemy is, and as it turned out, it "is" Iran. Modern Day "Persia". But, how does Israel fit in to this story line between Iran and Egypt, you ask? I'm getting to that.
The scripture in Daniel says that a Princess from Egypt marries a prince of the South, "Persia", and the scripture says it was for political purposes for an agreement between the two Kings. This actually happened.
*The first Shaw of Iran, who by the way titled himself, "king of Kings", yeah, he did that...And, when Christ comes back, He'll be taking that title back also! But, a princess from Egypt marries the prince, just as the scripture said, and the marriage fell apart just as the scripture said it would. In fact, she divorced him, I think it was in 1945. She was called the queen of Iran until after her divorce.
Wait! It gets better!
* In Daniel 11, If I remember correctly, The scripture talks about how he turns his face towards the Islands and causes a reproach to turn upon himself, and talks about him turning his fact towards his own country, and it talks about how he is not found. It was all confusion until I understood that there was more than one person being referred to.
*The Shaw of Iran had a prime minister start causing him problems because the Iranian Oil was foreign controlled, Yep! The Big Name British ~ "British Petroleum" suckered Iran into selling off their royalties. It caused all kinds of problems, including, "invading the Isles", just as the scriptures said. The Shaw of Iran was kicked out of power and the prime minister took his place.
(Hey! Don't complain! You asked for this! LOL) And, you have to understand the backstory if you are going to understand the book of Revelation.
*But, the CIA and Britain's MI6 got together and did a military coup and put back in power. The Iranian people were not going to have it, and The Shaw of Iran said that he would rather go into exile than to fire on his on people to force public civility. The scriptures says "and was not found." That's why he was not found. He died in Exile in Egypt.
*Back to the princess~ Part of the back story ~ The scripture says that the King of Egypt is poisoned by the people who feed him his meat. Yep! The last King of Egypt was the father of princess who married The Shaw of Iran, and he died in Rome while eating, suspected of being poisoned. (As you know now, my research and conviction is based in facts as well as scripture.)
Okay, so now the good stuff.
*The First Anti-Christ that the scriptures talk about, Dan. 11, I think, comes to power after the Shaw of Iran. He died in office just as the scripture said. The second one is still in office, even as you read this, and get this...the person who was the mainly responsible for the Iranian Revolution is Iran's President. No body in Iran likes him and he is wanted by the world organization for mass murder!
* Up to date) Nobody actually knows the identity of the person who is going to be causing all the havoc in Israel, but because of the back story, I truly believe Iran is going to be the one who puts him in power.
The Book of Revelations.
* ten horns, seven horns, seven hills.)
Seven hills is the location where all the havoc is going to be. Jerusalem is built on "seven" hills.
(Ten horns, seven horns.) Ten kingdoms is going to align themselves with this person known as the "Beast". One of the ten will subdue 3 of the kingdoms and the alliance will become seven, that give military power to the beast.
*The Beast will put his headquarters, "between the seas". I'm thinking it is MT Sinai, since the planned corridor by Saudi Arabia, and the middle east is a straight line through the Suez Canal, and the location is between the Mediterranean and Red Sea.
The rest of the Book of Revelation is very descriptive about how arrogant and bad he is going to become, and that he will kill anyone who challenges him, and refuses to take the mark of the beast. I do want to say one thing though. Many believe that he will control the entire world economy. I don't.. The scriptures say, "
Who is like him, who can make war with him. So, there are other world countries that are free to fight against him. I think these events will be isolated to the middle east, but he will have some influence on world economy. You spoke about, pre-trib, mid-trib, post trib. rapture.. Scriptures says in Thes. "at the last trump:, Christ will come back.
*Seven seals, Seven Trump Events, and seven plagues of the wrath of God, sounded by trumps."
Get this, There are seven Seals, but the seventh seal, is the seven trump events. Each trump even fall under one of the other six seals, and the seven plagues of the wrath of God is at the last trump event that sounds in Revelation. I have a whole study on the issue. Leaders of Israel sell out their own people for money, things get really, really bad for Christians and Jewish people alike. And, my own testimony: I had a night vision of the beast, without the mother of harlots sitting on it's back around year two thousand or two thousand and one. The world has been a holding pattern for almost 25years! (That's my story, and it is pretty detailed with scripture and facts.) But, I tell people whenever I can, the scripture says, "they loved not their life unto death." The closer we walk with God, the easier it is to be "Christlike" in a lost and dying world, and food for thought, there are only two ways to put on immortality, through the grave, or at the end of the thousand year reign. If given the opportunity, I choose through the grave. (Always in Christ) rdm
look at the narrative aspect of johns vision
“And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: and she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.”
Revelation 12:1-2 KJV
israel was expecting the messiah to be born
“And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.”
Revelation 12:5 KJV
Jesus was born and later ascended to the throne where prophecy said ( psalm 2) he the son would rule with a rod of iron. Now follow the woman
“And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child. And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent. And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.”
Revelation 12:13-14, 17 KJV
Then beginning in chapter 13 you see this beast rising up making war against who ? And overcoming and killing who ? We see this war happen on earth this beast is making war with the saints those who believe and have Jesus testimony then after this vision plays out and the earth is harvested an angel comes and better explains it to John what John has just seen
The woman who was in the wilderness pursued by the beast
“So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.”
Revelation 17:3 KJV
Its the same woman but she’s wearing different garments and she’s now in union with the beast this is it prophecy about israel there are at least four I can think of )
“And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
and upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.
And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.”
Revelation 17:4-6, 18 KJV
Which city did God appoint the ruling city of earth ? Jerusalem . He made her beautiful But they turned against him and worshipped other gods for many generations they went to the high places of Israel and made idols to foreign gods altars and burnt incense throughout Israel’s hills this defiled the land and people before God it’s a consistent theme of the ot prophets and it’s why Jerusalem was destroyed in Ad 70 and has never been returned to the Israelis
this woman is Jerusalem she appears beautiful
“Again the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, Son of man, cause Jerusalem to know her abominations, Now when I passed by thee, and looked upon thee, behold, thy time was the time of love; and I spread my skirt over thee, and covered thy nakedness: yea, I sware unto thee, and entered into a covenant with thee, saith the Lord GOD, and thou becamest mine. Then washed I thee with water; yea, I throughly washed away thy blood from thee, and I anointed thee with oil. I clothed thee also with broidered work, and shod thee with badgers' skin, and I girded thee about with fine linen, and I covered thee with silk. I decked thee also with ornaments, and I put bracelets upon thy hands, and a chain on thy neck. And I put a jewel on thy forehead, and earrings in thine ears, and a beautiful crown upon thine head. Thus wast thou decked with gold and silver; and thy raiment was of fine linen, and silk, and broidered work; thou didst eat fine flour, and honey, and oil: and thou wast exceeding beautiful, and thou didst prosper into a kingdom. And thy renown went forth among the heathen for thy beauty: for it was perfect through my comeliness, which I had put upon thee, saith the Lord GOD.”
Ezekiel 16:1-2, 8-14 KJV
abut then she appears as a whore
“But thou didst trust in thine own beauty, and playedst the harlot because of thy renown, and pouredst out thy fornications on every one that passed by; his it was. And of thy garments thou didst take, and deckedst thy high places with divers colours, and playedst the harlot thereupon: the like things shall not come, neither shall it be so. Thou hast also taken thy fair jewels of my gold and of my silver, which I had given thee, and madest to thyself images of men, and didst commit whoredom with them, And it came to pass after all thy wickedness, (woe, woe unto thee! saith the Lord GOD
that thou hast also built unto thee an eminent place, and hast made thee an high place in every street.”Ezekiel 16:15-17, 23-24 KJV
at he rest of a very long prophecy there needs to be read to really see the vision in revelation but Israel is clearly the beautiful woman with the crown and also the woman who’s garments are changed later holding the cup of fornication and wrath poured out to all ….
again the ot prophets make this clear what city this is spoken of
I'm not convinced Babylon is Jerusalem.
Looking at the two examples you offer in Rev 21:10 "that great city" is holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, and the Rev 11:8 'the great city,' which is spiritually Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified, the former is without question speaking of an city as expansive as it is high and a "holy" descriptive indicates its distinction from, its separateness or different from, the world. And in the same vein, the descriptive phrase "which is spiritually Sodom and Egypt," including within a city on the border with Jordan and the entire country of Egypt seems to also be alluding to its expansive reach, and 'where their lord also was crucified' may be referring back to 'in the streets' or the 'public square' rather than Jerusalem, especially given that "all tribes and tongues and nations will view their bodies," and also given that our Lord was crucified "for the sins of the world."
However, the best argument for Jerusalem being Babylon is that reference to the Lord's lament over Jerusalem as that "which killest the prophets," and "
However, after declaring, "behold, your house is left to you desolate," the Lord prophesies, "You will not see Me again until you say, 'Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord.'"
Here, it seems apparent to me that, Jerusalem will see the Lord again, saying "Blessed is He," and so will not be utterly destroyed, as will Babylon, but rather indeed be made a new creation.
Looking at the two examples you offer in Rev 21:10 "that great city" is holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, and the Rev 11:8 'the great city,' which is spiritually Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified, the former is without question speaking of an city as expansive as it is high and a "holy" descriptive indicates its distinction from, its separateness or different from, the world. And in the same vein, the descriptive phrase "which is spiritually Sodom and Egypt," including within a city on the border with Jordan and the entire country of Egypt seems to also be alluding to its expansive reach, and 'where their lord also was crucified' may be referring back to 'in the streets' or the 'public square' rather than Jerusalem, especially given that "all tribes and tongues and nations will view their bodies," and also given that our Lord was crucified "for the sins of the world."
However, the best argument for Jerusalem being Babylon is that reference to the Lord's lament over Jerusalem as that "which killest the prophets," and "
However, after declaring, "behold, your house is left to you desolate," the Lord prophesies, "You will not see Me again until you say, 'Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord.'"
Here, it seems apparent to me that, Jerusalem will see the Lord again, saying "Blessed is He," and so will not be utterly destroyed, as will Babylon, but rather indeed be made a new creation.
Also just
“Except the LORD of hosts had left unto us a very small remnant, we should have been as Sodom, and we should have been like unto Gomorrah.”
Isaiah 1:9 KJV
“And as Esaias said before, Except the Lord of Sabaoth had left us a seed, We had been as Sodoma, and been made like unto Gomorrha.”
Romans 9:29 KJV
“For, behold, the Lord, the LORD of hosts, doth take away from Jerusalem and from Judah the stay and the staff, the whole stay of bread, and the whole stay of water, For Jerusalem is ruined, and Judah is fallen: because their tongue and their doings are against the LORD, to provoke the eyes of his glory. The shew of their countenance doth witness against them; and they declare their sin as Sodom, they hide it not. Woe unto their soul! for they have rewarded evil unto themselves.”
Isaiah 3:1, 8-9
in the ot Jerusalem is often figuratively called soddom and Samaria is called Gomorrah
ashes also described as a whore many times who worshipped other gods upon jerusalems high mountains like they used to worship God . She’s also said to be holding a cup of fornocation she would pour out into all nations and bring sorrow and wrath because of all her abominations committed against the lord against their covenant
The ot prophets are how to understand johns vision
It can't be overlooked that, although there isn't much differentiation between Israel from Sodom and Gomorrha, yet its fate is the exception from that of Sodom and Gomorrha, "except the Lord of hosts had (indeed did) left us a remnant." See, Romans 9 cites Isaiah 1 which concludes with God's oath that He "will thoroughly purge your dross" and "remove all your impurities."
-
2
- Show all
Yes the reference there to soddom and Gomorrah is about how they are gone forever and No one survived in those cities . It’s a reference to the remnant of believers he would spare when Jerusalem was destroyed.
“And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.”
Revelation 11:8 KJV
Jesus was crucified in Jerusalem just outside the city gate
air you read a lot of old testament prophecy God often calls israel a who’re because the people continually worshipped false gods and rejected him. He likens it to a husband who takes a wife then she becomes a whore and sleeps with every man coming and going but to hear it we have to read those prophecies like this is about Jerusalem.
“Again the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, Son of man, cause Jerusalem to know her abominations, But thou didst trust in thine own beauty, and playedst the harlot because of thy renown, and pouredst out thy fornications on every one that passed by; his it was. And of thy garments thou didst take, and deckedst thy high places with divers colours, and playedst the harlot thereupon: the like things shall not come, neither shall it be so. Thou hast also taken thy fair jewels of my gold and of my silver, which I had given thee, and madest to thyself images of men, and didst commit whoredom with them, and tookest thy broidered garments, and coveredst them: and thou hast set mine oil and mine incense before them. And it came to pass after all thy wickedness, (woe, woe unto thee! saith the Lord GOD that thou hast also built unto thee an eminent place, and hast made thee an high place in every street. Thou hast built thy high place at every head of the way, and hast made thy beauty to be abhorred, and hast opened thy feet to every one that passed by, and multiplied thy whoredoms. Thou hast also committed fornication with the Egyptians thy neighbours, great of flesh; and hast increased thy whoredoms, to provoke me to anger. Behold, therefore I have stretched out my hand over thee, and have diminished thine ordinary food, and delivered thee unto the will of them that hate thee, the daughters of the Philistines, which are ashamed of thy lewd way. Thou hast played the whore also with the Assyrians, because thou wast unsatiable; yea, thou hast played the harlot with them, and yet couldest not be satisfied. Thou hast moreover multiplied thy fornication in the land of Canaan unto Chaldea; and yet thou wast not satisfied herewith. How weak is thine heart, saith the Lord GOD, seeing thou doest all these things, the work of an imperious whorish woman; in that thou buildest thine eminent place in the head of every way, and makest thine high place in every street; and hast not been as an harlot, in that thou scornest hire; but as a wife that committeth adultery, which taketh strangers instead of her husband! Wherefore, O harlot, hear the word of the LORD: Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thy filthiness was poured out, and thy nakedness discovered through thy whoredoms with thy lovers, and with all the idols of thy abominations, and by the blood of thy children, which thou didst give unto them; behold, therefore I will gather all thy lovers, with whom thou hast taken pleasure, and all them that thou hast loved, with all them that thou hast hated; I will even gather them round about against thee, and will discover thy nakedness unto them, that they may see all thy nakedness. And I will judge thee, as women that break wedlock and shed blood are judged; and I will give thee blood in fury and jealousy. And I will also give thee into their hand, and they shall throw down thine eminent place, and shall break down thy high places: they shall strip thee also of thy clothes, and shall take thy fair jewels, and leave thee naked and bare. They shall also bring up a company against thee, and they shall stone thee with stones, and thrust thee through with their swords. And they shall burn thine houses with fire, and execute judgments upon thee in the sight of many women: and I will cause thee to cease from playing the harlot, and thou also shalt give no hire any more. So will I make my fury toward thee to rest, and my jealousy shall depart from thee, and I will be quiet, and will be no more angry.”
Ezekiel 16:1-2, 15-18, 23-32, 35-42
What I’m saying is there are several prophecies like this that describe the things we see in revelation like if you read this entire prophecy from Ezekiel you see a story gods telling about Jerusalem and his relationship with them
Israel was blessed god chose them and made a covenant with them he made them mighty and beautiful and gave them many possessions and slivered them from all enemies he chose them as his beloved City , his chosen people and gave them a land blessed promised land a whole nation
But then Ezekiel tells us they began to wax fat and consider how beautiful and mighty they were and forgot about thoer gos who delivered them all and blessed them they forgot his law and ways and began to worship false gods of all the many nations around them. They gods chosen people and nation spent thier time worshipping idols and false gods like moloch they sacrificed children to these false gods in gods land
a they burned incense and prayed to these false gods they made idols and images and placed them in temple of God to worship
“He said furthermore unto me, Son of man, seest thou what they do? even the great abominations that the house of Israel committeth here, that I should go far off from my sanctuary? but turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations. And he said unto me, Go in, and behold the wicked abominations that they do here. So I went in and saw; and behold every form of creeping things, and abominable beasts, and all the idols of the house of Israel, pourtrayed upon the wall round about. And there stood before them seventy men of the ancients of the house of Israel, and in the midst of them stood Jaazaniah the son of Shaphan, with every man his censer in his hand; and a thick cloud of incense went up. Then said he unto me, Son of man, hast thou seen what the ancients of the house of Israel do in the dark, every man in the chambers of his imagery? for they say, The LORD seeth us not; the LORD hath forsaken the earth. He said also unto me, Turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations that they do. Then said he unto me, Hast thou seen this, O son of man? turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations than these. Then he said unto me, Hast thou seen this, O son of man? Is it a light thing to the house of Judah that they commit the abominations which they commit here? for they have filled the land with violence, and have returned to provoke me to anger: and, lo, they put the branch to their nose. Therefore will I also deal in fury: mine eye shall not spare, neither will I have pity: and though they cry in mine ears with a loud voice, yet will I not hear them.”
Ezekiel 8:6, 9-13, 15,
Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters: with whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.
See this above is what godbhas said formerly about Jerusalem is what I’m saying the entire book of revelation practically can be found in tbe ot prophecy
There also things Jesus said about Jerusalem that sort of really make it clear
“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not! Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.”
Luke 13:34-35
“And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.”
Revelation 18:24
“that the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation;”
Luke 11:50 KJV
There’s a lot in the ot especially that if we read it first then read johns vision it helps us n so many ways to know what’s happening in johns vision and why John keeps referring to other prophets visions like Daniel , Ezekiel , zechariah Isaiah ect
“And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.”
Revelation 11:8 KJV
Jesus was crucified in Jerusalem just outside the city gate
air you read a lot of old testament prophecy God often calls israel a who’re because the people continually worshipped false gods and rejected him. He likens it to a husband who takes a wife then she becomes a whore and sleeps with every man coming and going but to hear it we have to read those prophecies like this is about Jerusalem.
“Again the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, Son of man, cause Jerusalem to know her abominations, But thou didst trust in thine own beauty, and playedst the harlot because of thy renown, and pouredst out thy fornications on every one that passed by; his it was. And of thy garments thou didst take, and deckedst thy high places with divers colours, and playedst the harlot thereupon: the like things shall not come, neither shall it be so. Thou hast also taken thy fair jewels of my gold and of my silver, which I had given thee, and madest to thyself images of men, and didst commit whoredom with them, and tookest thy broidered garments, and coveredst them: and thou hast set mine oil and mine incense before them. And it came to pass after all thy wickedness, (woe, woe unto thee! saith the Lord GOD
that thou hast also built unto thee an eminent place, and hast made thee an high place in every street. Thou hast built thy high place at every head of the way, and hast made thy beauty to be abhorred, and hast opened thy feet to every one that passed by, and multiplied thy whoredoms. Thou hast also committed fornication with the Egyptians thy neighbours, great of flesh; and hast increased thy whoredoms, to provoke me to anger. Behold, therefore I have stretched out my hand over thee, and have diminished thine ordinary food, and delivered thee unto the will of them that hate thee, the daughters of the Philistines, which are ashamed of thy lewd way. Thou hast played the whore also with the Assyrians, because thou wast unsatiable; yea, thou hast played the harlot with them, and yet couldest not be satisfied. Thou hast moreover multiplied thy fornication in the land of Canaan unto Chaldea; and yet thou wast not satisfied herewith. How weak is thine heart, saith the Lord GOD, seeing thou doest all these things, the work of an imperious whorish woman; in that thou buildest thine eminent place in the head of every way, and makest thine high place in every street; and hast not been as an harlot, in that thou scornest hire; but as a wife that committeth adultery, which taketh strangers instead of her husband! Wherefore, O harlot, hear the word of the LORD: Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thy filthiness was poured out, and thy nakedness discovered through thy whoredoms with thy lovers, and with all the idols of thy abominations, and by the blood of thy children, which thou didst give unto them; behold, therefore I will gather all thy lovers, with whom thou hast taken pleasure, and all them that thou hast loved, with all them that thou hast hated; I will even gather them round about against thee, and will discover thy nakedness unto them, that they may see all thy nakedness. And I will judge thee, as women that break wedlock and shed blood are judged; and I will give thee blood in fury and jealousy. And I will also give thee into their hand, and they shall throw down thine eminent place, and shall break down thy high places: they shall strip thee also of thy clothes, and shall take thy fair jewels, and leave thee naked and bare. They shall also bring up a company against thee, and they shall stone thee with stones, and thrust thee through with their swords. And they shall burn thine houses with fire, and execute judgments upon thee in the sight of many women: and I will cause thee to cease from playing the harlot, and thou also shalt give no hire any more. So will I make my fury toward thee to rest, and my jealousy shall depart from thee, and I will be quiet, and will be no more angry.”Ezekiel 16:1-2, 15-18, 23-32, 35-42
What I’m saying is there are several prophecies like this that describe the things we see in revelation like if you read this entire prophecy from Ezekiel you see a story gods telling about Jerusalem and his relationship with them
Israel was blessed god chose them and made a covenant with them he made them mighty and beautiful and gave them many possessions and slivered them from all enemies he chose them as his beloved City , his chosen people and gave them a land blessed promised land a whole nation
But then Ezekiel tells us they began to wax fat and consider how beautiful and mighty they were and forgot about thoer gos who delivered them all and blessed them they forgot his law and ways and began to worship false gods of all the many nations around them. They gods chosen people and nation spent thier time worshipping idols and false gods like moloch they sacrificed children to these false gods in gods land
a they burned incense and prayed to these false gods they made idols and images and placed them in temple of God to worship
“He said furthermore unto me, Son of man, seest thou what they do? even the great abominations that the house of Israel committeth here, that I should go far off from my sanctuary? but turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations. And he said unto me, Go in, and behold the wicked abominations that they do here. So I went in and saw; and behold every form of creeping things, and abominable beasts, and all the idols of the house of Israel, pourtrayed upon the wall round about. And there stood before them seventy men of the ancients of the house of Israel, and in the midst of them stood Jaazaniah the son of Shaphan, with every man his censer in his hand; and a thick cloud of incense went up. Then said he unto me, Son of man, hast thou seen what the ancients of the house of Israel do in the dark, every man in the chambers of his imagery? for they say, The LORD seeth us not; the LORD hath forsaken the earth. He said also unto me, Turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations that they do. Then said he unto me, Hast thou seen this, O son of man? turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations than these. Then he said unto me, Hast thou seen this, O son of man? Is it a light thing to the house of Judah that they commit the abominations which they commit here? for they have filled the land with violence, and have returned to provoke me to anger: and, lo, they put the branch to their nose. Therefore will I also deal in fury: mine eye shall not spare, neither will I have pity: and though they cry in mine ears with a loud voice, yet will I not hear them.”
Ezekiel 8:6, 9-13, 15,
Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters: with whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.
See this above is what godbhas said formerly about Jerusalem is what I’m saying the entire book of revelation practically can be found in tbe ot prophecy
There also things Jesus said about Jerusalem that sort of really make it clear
“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not! Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.”
Luke 13:34-35
“And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.”
Revelation 18:24
“that the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation;”
Luke 11:50 KJV
There’s a lot in the ot especially that if we read it first then read johns vision it helps us n so many ways to know what’s happening in johns vision and why John keeps referring to other prophets visions like Daniel , Ezekiel , zechariah Isaiah ect
this seems to go without saying, except I would qualify the statement by adding "but to hear it (as you believe it should be heard) "we" (because it sounds better than using the command "you have to...") have to read those prophecies like this is about Jerusalem.'
I cannot 'command' anyone to read it my way, as much as I'd like to think that I could.
I cannot 'command' anyone to read it my way, as much as I'd like to think that I could.
Hi, Mem.
Here is the verse in question:
Revelation 11:8
"And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified."
In scripture, which great city is spiritually called Sodom and Egypt?
The correct answer to this question is Jerusalem.
Isaiah 1:1-10
"The vision of Isaiah the son of Amoz, which he saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem in the days of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz, and Hezekiah, kings of Judah. Hear, O heavens, and give ear, O earth: for the LORD hath spoken, I have nourished and brought up children, and they have rebelled against me. The ox knoweth his owner, and the ass his master's crib: but Israel doth not know, my people doth not consider. Ah sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, a seed of evildoers, children that are corrupters: they have forsaken the LORD, they have provoked the Holy One of Israel unto anger, they are gone away backward. Why should ye be stricken any more? ye will revolt more and more: the whole head is sick, and the whole heart faint. From the sole of the foot even unto the head there is no soundness in it; but wounds, and bruises, and putrifying sores: they have not been closed, neither bound up, neither mollified with ointment. Your country is desolate, your cities are burned with fire: your land, strangers devour it in your presence, and it is desolate, as overthrown by strangers. And the daughter of Zion is left as a cottage in a vineyard, as a lodge in a garden of cucumbers, as a besieged city. Except the LORD of hosts had left unto us a very small remnant, we should have been as Sodom, and we should have been like unto Gomorrah. Hear the word of the LORD, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah."
In what we just read, Jerusalem, or the daughter of Zion, was likened to Sodom.
Then there is this to consider as well:
Galatians 4:21-26
"Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law? For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all."
In what we just read, Jerusalem which now is was likened to the Egyptian bondwoman Hagar.
Also, where "also our Lord was crucified" (Revelation 11:8) is concerned, we have the following words of Jesus to consider:
Matthew 20:17-19
"And Jesus going up to Jerusalem took the twelve disciples apart in the way, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and the Son of man shall be betrayed unto the chief priests and unto the scribes, and they shall condemn him to death, And shall deliver him to the Gentiles to mock, and to scourge, and to crucify him: and the third day he shall rise again."
There are plenty of other arguments to consider as well which I have not even touched upon yet, but this argument does put all of the other arguments to silence.
Again, we read:
Rev 16:6
For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy.
Rev 18:20
Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.
Rev 18:24
And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.
There is only one great city upon the face of this earth which God could possibly avenge the blood of the prophets upon, and that one city is Jerusalem.
Jeremiah 2:30
"In vain have I smitten your children; they received no correction: your own sword hath devoured your prophets, like a destroying lion."
Acts 7:51-52
"Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye. Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:"
1 Thessalonians 2:14-16
"For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews: Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men: Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost."
Etc., etc., etc.
The prophecy does not say that she will be utterly destroyed, but utterly burned with fire (which has happened before in Jerusalem's past):
Rev 18:8
Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.
Ultimately, Christ will reign out of Jerusalem at his second coming when he takes his rightful seat upon the throne of David as has long been prophesied.
Anyhow, I have to get ready for work.
I will try to add more later.
Here is the verse in question:
Revelation 11:8
"And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified."
In scripture, which great city is spiritually called Sodom and Egypt?
The correct answer to this question is Jerusalem.
Isaiah 1:1-10
"The vision of Isaiah the son of Amoz, which he saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem in the days of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz, and Hezekiah, kings of Judah. Hear, O heavens, and give ear, O earth: for the LORD hath spoken, I have nourished and brought up children, and they have rebelled against me. The ox knoweth his owner, and the ass his master's crib: but Israel doth not know, my people doth not consider. Ah sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, a seed of evildoers, children that are corrupters: they have forsaken the LORD, they have provoked the Holy One of Israel unto anger, they are gone away backward. Why should ye be stricken any more? ye will revolt more and more: the whole head is sick, and the whole heart faint. From the sole of the foot even unto the head there is no soundness in it; but wounds, and bruises, and putrifying sores: they have not been closed, neither bound up, neither mollified with ointment. Your country is desolate, your cities are burned with fire: your land, strangers devour it in your presence, and it is desolate, as overthrown by strangers. And the daughter of Zion is left as a cottage in a vineyard, as a lodge in a garden of cucumbers, as a besieged city. Except the LORD of hosts had left unto us a very small remnant, we should have been as Sodom, and we should have been like unto Gomorrah. Hear the word of the LORD, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah."
In what we just read, Jerusalem, or the daughter of Zion, was likened to Sodom.
Then there is this to consider as well:
Galatians 4:21-26
"Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law? For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all."
In what we just read, Jerusalem which now is was likened to the Egyptian bondwoman Hagar.
Also, where "also our Lord was crucified" (Revelation 11:8) is concerned, we have the following words of Jesus to consider:
Matthew 20:17-19
"And Jesus going up to Jerusalem took the twelve disciples apart in the way, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and the Son of man shall be betrayed unto the chief priests and unto the scribes, and they shall condemn him to death, And shall deliver him to the Gentiles to mock, and to scourge, and to crucify him: and the third day he shall rise again."
There are plenty of other arguments to consider as well which I have not even touched upon yet, but this argument does put all of the other arguments to silence.
Again, we read:
Rev 16:6
For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy.
Rev 18:20
Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.
Rev 18:24
And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.
There is only one great city upon the face of this earth which God could possibly avenge the blood of the prophets upon, and that one city is Jerusalem.
Jeremiah 2:30
"In vain have I smitten your children; they received no correction: your own sword hath devoured your prophets, like a destroying lion."
Acts 7:51-52
"Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye. Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:"
1 Thessalonians 2:14-16
"For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews: Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men: Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost."
Etc., etc., etc.
However, after declaring, "behold, your house is left to you desolate," the Lord prophesies, "You will not see Me again until you say, 'Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord.'"
Here, it seems apparent to me that, Jerusalem will see the Lord again, saying "Blessed is He," and so will not be utterly destroyed, as will Babylon, but rather indeed be made a new creation.
Here, it seems apparent to me that, Jerusalem will see the Lord again, saying "Blessed is He," and so will not be utterly destroyed, as will Babylon, but rather indeed be made a new creation.
Rev 18:8
Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.
Ultimately, Christ will reign out of Jerusalem at his second coming when he takes his rightful seat upon the throne of David as has long been prophesied.
Anyhow, I have to get ready for work.
I will try to add more later.
-
1
- Show all
Here is my take on the "Beast." The beast can certainly refer to the antichrist, but also the one who we call the false prophet as well the 10 kings in Revelations.
The Beast from the sea is the 10 kings from around the Mediterranean Sea, the old Roman empire. Rev 13:1
The other Beast is the one called the false prophet and the Beast from the earth is the kingdom of the antichrist. Rev 13:11.
The antichrist begins his rule in middle of the 7 (1260 days) and until the end of the Great Tribulation (2520 days) for 42 months. Rev 13:5
The Beast from the sea is the 10 kings from around the Mediterranean Sea, the old Roman empire. Rev 13:1
The other Beast is the one called the false prophet and the Beast from the earth is the kingdom of the antichrist. Rev 13:11.
The antichrist begins his rule in middle of the 7 (1260 days) and until the end of the Great Tribulation (2520 days) for 42 months. Rev 13:5
-
1
- Show all
21Then a mighty angel picked up a stone the size of a great millstone and cast it into the sea, saying:
“With such violence
the great city of Babylon will be cast down,
never to be seen again.
this looks like utterly destroyed to me.
Christ taking his rightful seat amounts to Christ receiving worship in Jerusalem. Any city might be said to be likened to Sodom or likened to Gomorrah, as Babylon is, but that does not necessitate that it actually is Babylon. A wife can behave as an adulterous but so can the never married 'husband stealing' maiden.
There's no need to explain your view any further, not to me. I understand how many have come to the same conclusion, and are effectively looking for the destruction of Jerusalem. But, as I see it, the daughter of Zion is ignorant, yes, and yet to realize her husband is dead and she is actually free to marry another, and that one is Him whom she will say of in truth, "Blessed is He."
“With such violence
the great city of Babylon will be cast down,
never to be seen again.
this looks like utterly destroyed to me.
Christ taking his rightful seat amounts to Christ receiving worship in Jerusalem. Any city might be said to be likened to Sodom or likened to Gomorrah, as Babylon is, but that does not necessitate that it actually is Babylon. A wife can behave as an adulterous but so can the never married 'husband stealing' maiden.
There's no need to explain your view any further, not to me. I understand how many have come to the same conclusion, and are effectively looking for the destruction of Jerusalem. But, as I see it, the daughter of Zion is ignorant, yes, and yet to realize her husband is dead and she is actually free to marry another, and that one is Him whom she will say of in truth, "Blessed is He."
-
1
- Show all
Lol I wasn’t commanding you to do anything was just making a point . That anyone who wants to understand revelation is in need of reading it prophecy first .
also im not saying we should interpret for ourselves those prophecies in sayong we just need to read what’s being said in them without interpreting anything then the nt makes perfect sense when we don’t interpret from our own mind but let scripture interpret scripture
I’m not sure if you read that prophecy from Ezekiel there but if you did now consider what’s being said here
“And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire. For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled. ( prophecy )
And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.”
Revelation 17:16-18
if you read what Ezekiel is saying he’s saying God would turn Jerusalem over to all the nations around her that she had been adulterous with her “ lovers “ he calls them and they would turn and tear her apart and destroy her leave her naked and expose her nakedness in the sight of nations …..
john is seeing this in a vision Jerusalem being destroyed and made desolate by all those nations around her that hate her so much those is gods she worshipped and provoked Gods wrath
All I’m really trying to say to you is the ot prophets make revelation really much easier to make sense of and the woman 👩 n chapter 12 is israel it’s a n image of Joseph’s dream before he was sold to slavery
a and the woman is shown to have been corrupted by the beast in chapter 17 it’s why her clothes are described in both parts showing her garments were changed she became a whore and then must endure judgement ….
Revelation is partly a narrative of what the prophets explained would happen later bieng fulfilled and revelaed by the lord to the church
also im not saying we should interpret for ourselves those prophecies in sayong we just need to read what’s being said in them without interpreting anything then the nt makes perfect sense when we don’t interpret from our own mind but let scripture interpret scripture
I’m not sure if you read that prophecy from Ezekiel there but if you did now consider what’s being said here
“And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire. For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled. ( prophecy )
And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.”
Revelation 17:16-18
if you read what Ezekiel is saying he’s saying God would turn Jerusalem over to all the nations around her that she had been adulterous with her “ lovers “ he calls them and they would turn and tear her apart and destroy her leave her naked and expose her nakedness in the sight of nations …..
john is seeing this in a vision Jerusalem being destroyed and made desolate by all those nations around her that hate her so much those is gods she worshipped and provoked Gods wrath
All I’m really trying to say to you is the ot prophets make revelation really much easier to make sense of and the woman 👩 n chapter 12 is israel it’s a n image of Joseph’s dream before he was sold to slavery
a and the woman is shown to have been corrupted by the beast in chapter 17 it’s why her clothes are described in both parts showing her garments were changed she became a whore and then must endure judgement ….
Revelation is partly a narrative of what the prophets explained would happen later bieng fulfilled and revelaed by the lord to the church
Ps brother I do t mean anything I said there in any negative way towards you I’m just an old fool who likes to share scriptire and talk about it in hopes of hearing or thinking something I hadn’t noticed before or some angle someone else sees I might. NOt have considered
when I responded to you as usual you m just stating my own thoughts and opinions about what the Bible says . I’m not a teacher , I don’t claim to be an authority , I don’t claim to be a leader or pastor or prophet or anything other than a person who believes the Bible and doesn’t have much else to do with his time anymore but go to church fellowship do whatever I can in my own life to serve the lord , and then discuss the Bible with other people who don’t think they are a prophet or tescher or wise authoritative person in the body of Christ to just freely discuss with
i apologize if I’ve given you a different opinion as if I’m speaking down to you , I’m not I’m just trying to tell you what I think , and then hear what you think wothout either of us becoming offended with the other person
i don’t really know how to be careful online because people are so different in what they perceive as offense when we aren’t talking in person and gathering the whole tone of the conversation . Text can seem cold and without care but often it’s just w person trying to say what they think and believe ……not so much attacking what everyone else thinks and believes
I feel like if we could just speak freely without taking offense in this forum we would get alot further the arguing and contention never slows a discussion to progress
i eas on no way speaking to you like 👍 eas commanding you or have some place over you or trying to teach you nothing like that was just answering you in a discussion . I’m not very great at texting and definately not a wordsmith .
would love to find people to do this with when I’m not at church or busy though
“Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.”
Colossians 3:16 KJV
when I responded to you as usual you m just stating my own thoughts and opinions about what the Bible says . I’m not a teacher , I don’t claim to be an authority , I don’t claim to be a leader or pastor or prophet or anything other than a person who believes the Bible and doesn’t have much else to do with his time anymore but go to church fellowship do whatever I can in my own life to serve the lord , and then discuss the Bible with other people who don’t think they are a prophet or tescher or wise authoritative person in the body of Christ to just freely discuss with
i apologize if I’ve given you a different opinion as if I’m speaking down to you , I’m not I’m just trying to tell you what I think , and then hear what you think wothout either of us becoming offended with the other person
i don’t really know how to be careful online because people are so different in what they perceive as offense when we aren’t talking in person and gathering the whole tone of the conversation . Text can seem cold and without care but often it’s just w person trying to say what they think and believe ……not so much attacking what everyone else thinks and believes
I feel like if we could just speak freely without taking offense in this forum we would get alot further the arguing and contention never slows a discussion to progress
i eas on no way speaking to you like 👍 eas commanding you or have some place over you or trying to teach you nothing like that was just answering you in a discussion . I’m not very great at texting and definately not a wordsmith .
would love to find people to do this with when I’m not at church or busy though
“Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.”
Colossians 3:16 KJV