The Atonement: What did it REALLY Accomplish?

In agreement that God reconciled Himself to all mankind ... all descendants of Adam ... the "All those for whom Christ died" you refer to.

However, all descendants of Adam are not "reconciled to God !" ... not because the offering of the Lord Jesus Christ was insufficient, but for those who reject the Lord Jesus Christ there is no other way to be reconciled (Greek katallássō):

2 Cor 5:18

18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation

The word "reconciled" is translated from the Greek word katallássō which means decisively change, as when two parties reconcile when coming ("changing") to the same position.

Reconciliation on the part of God to mankind took place before the foundation of the world.

Reconciliation on the part of man to God takes place at the time a person turns to God in faith ... at that point we are no longer enemies.

Those who reject God even as He reaches out to them remain enemies and are not reconciled to God ... not because God has not made provision for them, but because they reject that which God has provided for them to be reconciled to God.

God (the Party of the first part) established His eternal purpose in eternity past ... and He reconciled Himself to mankind through the death of His Son.

The believer (the party of the second part) is reconciled at the time he or she believes what God says. At that point, both parties (God and the believer) came to the same position (both God and the person are reconciled ... i.e. Greek katallássō).

brightfame52 said:

The channel by which they acted in their conversion was by means of Jesus Christ !

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... the "channel by which they acted" ???

are you so offended by God's Word concerning the word "faith" that you cannot even mention "faith" or "believing" ??? ... you have to refer to faith as "the channel by which they acted in their conversion" ??? ... you so silly!!!

The Lord Jesus Christ is the reconciliation ... there is no other way.

Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ is reconciliation to God.

If a person rejects the Lord Jesus Christ ... Who is the Way, the Truth, the Life ... there is no reconciliation with God because the party of the second part is not in agreement with God (the party of the first part).

brightfame52 said:

Col 1:21

21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

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read the opening verses of Colossians to find out who is the "you" that has now been reconciled:

Colossians 1:2-4 To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. We give thanks to God and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you, Since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus, and of the love which ye have to all the saints

those who believe in the Lord Jesus Christ are reconciled to God ... those who reject God's grace are not reconciled.


You really need to get over your aversion to faith and believing as being ... what was it you said? ... "the channel by which they acted in their conversion"


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
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It reconciles us to God ! 2


Christ's Death must also reconcile us to God experimentally [active participation] because like others we were alienated from God and or the life of God Eph 4:18

18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

When alienated from God it entails :

The understanding is darkened

Ignorance is in us

Blindness of heart !

But however, the Effects of Christ's death defeats all of that, and causes us an experimental reconciliation to God or conversion.

The same Truth is taught by Peter 1 Pet 3:18

18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins[His Death doe our sins], the just for the unjust, that/hina purpose he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

You see the Purpose of His Death was in order to bring us to God, which is another way of saying reconciling us to God experimentally in a conversion experience.

Now if we say that Christ died for all without exception, and for many who never become experimentally reconciled to God in a conversion experience, then we are teaching against what the Death of Christ accomplished for them He died as it is taught in the scripture. We deny the reconciling effects of the death of Christ, that it not only reconciled God to us, but us to God as well !

More opposition to the Truth displayed.

More opposition to the Truth after it has been explained.

More opposition to the reconciling death of Christ which is unbelief.

More opposition to the saving death of Christ, which converts them He died for to God.

"them He died for" ... the Lord Jesus Christ died for all mankind ... all descendants of Adam:

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
.

More opposition to the Truth !

Christ has already died their second death !

Those who go into perdition are going into the second death Rev 20:14

And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

This second death is no more than the wages of sin, for the wages of sin is death Rom 6:23

23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Ezk 18:4

Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

But the good news for some is this Isa 53:12

Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

In this, His Soul was as if it was the souls of Many, the many he bare their sin, and His death was as to say the death of many, even the second death of many for the wages of their sins !

Listen, the Eternal Wrath and Damnation and Suffering for sin that their sin/sins deserved, has been accomplished by Christ. Yes Christ their Mediator Surety, for those He specifically died for, has in His Own Soul and Body, bare the punishment, hell, second death, torture of soul due to the sins of all those He died for, God's Elect, His Sheep, the Church !

The giving/pouring out of His Soul Isa 53:12 was and did include the Second Death .

This said, for any that Christ died for to be part of these Rev 20:12-15

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

For them to be one of any of those to be cast into the Lake of fire, which clearly is the second death so says Vs 14 , it would be Injustice on God's Part and a disregard for what His Son endured already for those He died for ! 39

@reneweddaybyday


Now if we say that Christ died for all without exception, and for many who never become experimentally reconciled to God in a conversion experience, then we are teaching against what the Death of Christ accomplished for them He died as it is taught in the scripture. We deny the reconciling effects of the death of Christ, that it not only reconciled God to us, but us to God as well !

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Now if we say that Christ died for all without exception, and for many who never become experimentally reconciled to God in a conversion experience, then we are teaching against what the Death of Christ accomplished for them He died as it is taught in the scripture. We deny the reconciling effects of the death of Christ, that it not only reconciled God to us, but us to God as well !

Not if you have the biblical stance that Christ died for all, but the atonement is only placed upon those that believe. He is the Savior of all men, especially those that believe.

Are you under the assumption that "the whole world" means the world of some "elect" group?

Here is my stance friend:

Now if we say that Christ died for all without exception, and for many who never become experimentally reconciled to God in a conversion experience, then we are teaching against what the Death of Christ accomplished for them He died as it is taught in the scripture. We deny the reconciling effects of the death of Christ, that it not only reconciled God to us, but us to God as well !

This is your logic, but it's not scripture. Scripture states that the "reconciling effects of the death of Christ" is for all and upon all them that believe.

Calvinism is an offshoot of the Greek philosophy fatalism. It infiltrated the RCC and now many protestant denominations.

Its scriptural but you cant receive it, may God have mercy on you

Those for whom Christ died cannot go into the second death, for He for them has abolished death. 2 Tim 2:10

10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

Now for one of them to go into the second death would be a miscarriage of Justice.