The Atonement: What did it REALLY Accomplish?

reneweddaybyday · Oct 2, 2023

Let's see who is the "us" referred to in Eph 1:5 ...

Ephesians 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus

the "saints" ... the "faithful in Christ Jesus" ... are those who are born again believers, those who do not suppress the truth in unrighteousness when God reaches out to them.

Eph 1:5 tells us that what God predetermined is that He decided to not adopt as children those who suppress the truth in unrighteousness when He reveals His truth to them.

God's decision to not adopt as children those who suppress the truth in unrighteousness does not affect the fact that the Lord Jesus Christ died to take away their sins ... because they reject the One and Only propitiation for sin, they are not adopted as children.
.

brightfame52 · Oct 2, 2023

reneweddaybyday said:

Let's see who is the "us" referred to in Eph 1:5 ...

Ephesians 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus

the "saints" ... the "faithful in Christ Jesus" ... are those who are born again believers, those who do not suppress the truth in unrighteousness when God reaches out to them.

Eph 1:5 tells us that what God predetermined is that He decided to not adopt as children those who suppress the truth in unrighteousness when He reveals His truth to them.

God's decision to not adopt as children those who suppress the truth in unrighteousness does not affect the fact that the Lord Jesus Christ died to take away their sins ... because they reject the One and Only propitiation for sin, they are not adopted as children.
.

More unbelief and opposition to the Truth !

reneweddaybyday · Oct 2, 2023

brightfame52 said:

... just more of your meaningless accusations because, when scrutinized under the light of Scripture, the error of your dogma is blatantly obvious.

As I explained in Post 1838, your Post 1837 is a prime example of sleight of men, and cunning craftiness ...

READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
.

brightfame52 · Oct 3, 2023

By His stripes we were healed !

1 Pet 2:24

24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

Listen, by His stripes [meaning his death] we were healed ! If there is any scripture that is an Testimony of the Saving effects of the Death of Christ alone, its this one above !

The word healed iaomai means:

I.to cure, heal

II.to make whole

A.to free from errors and sins, to bring about (one's) salvation

So the word is also synonymous with saved, thats why its stated to mean "to bring about or effects one's salvation"

Jer 17:14

Heal me, O LORD, and I shall be healed; save me, and I shall be saved: for thou art my praise.

Now we derive from our text that the healing that took place by His stripes, it effected " our death to sin "

Thats why Peter could say " we being dead to sin "

This includes the fact that sin cannot never be imputed or charged to anyone Christ died for !

They are dead to any condemnation of sin against them !

They are dead to its power as it cannot reign in them !

It[His Death] not only made us dead to sin, but also effected our" living unto righteousness"

In other words, the healing results of Christ's death or stripes is #1 We become dead to sin and #2 Live unto righteousness, which is but another way of saying to live by Faith, or the Righteousness of Faith Rom 1:17

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Rom 4:11,13

11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:

13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

Rom 9:30

30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.

Phil 3:9

9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

Heb 11:7

7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

We Live unto Righteousness when we are living by Faith, believing that Christ before God, is Our Righteousness 1 Cor 1:30

30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

This Righteousness is then revealed to us by the Gospel in order to Live by Faith Rom 1:16-17 !

Now John writes of doing Righteousness 1 Jn 3:7

7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

That means living by Faith feeding upon the Righteousness of Christ imputed to our charge. So doing and Living righteous is being able by the Spirit of God, to rest in Christ as our One and Only Righteousness before God,

And that rest will come as a result of Christ's stripes healing us ! 38

brightfame52 · Oct 5, 2023

Ensures the hearing of Faith !

The Death of Christ, for all whom He died, ensures unto them the Hearing of Faith ! This is True because its promised that the Just shall live by Faith Rom 1:17

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

The word shall in divine matters tells us that it has been predestined by God to happen !

Now who are the Just that shall live by Faith ? Its all for whom Christ by His Obedience of one shall make Righteous Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

That word righteous is the same greek word for Just in Rom 1:17 , hence all for whom Christ's obedience / death shall make Righteous or Just, shall Live by Faith !

So therefore His Death ensures the Hearing of Faith, because Faith comes by Hearing Rom 10:17 !

Now , Jesus who specifically stated that He lays down His Life for His Sheep Jn 10:11,15 goes on to say that they [ the Sheep He lays down His Life for] shall hear His voice Jn 10:16,27

16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear[hearing of faith] my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

27 My sheep hear[hearing of faith] my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

Again this is the Hearing of Faith as in Rom 10:17 and Gal 3:2,5

2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Again Jn 10:16 ensures this hearing of Faith or the Hearing of His Voice, the promise is " they shall hear"

That word shall means that it has already been determined that they shall hear His voice.

Jesus also says who it is that hears His voice here Jn 18:37

37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice. Cp with Jn 10:16 !

What is it to be "of the Truth " ? Its to have the Spirit of Truth in Us by New Birth Jn 14:17

17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. The Sheep !

This Spirit of Truth enables one to hear and embrace the Truth ! But nevertheless, Christ's Death ensures the Hearing of Faith unto everyone He died, of His Sheep !

Nehemiah6 · Oct 5, 2023

reneweddaybyday said:

Thus a total waste of time to even bother with this.

brightfame52 · Oct 7, 2023

It ensures heaven or inheritance !

Christ's death ensures heaven for those He died for, also called the Eternal Inheritance Heb 9:15

15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

Listen, Christ's Death, or by means of His Death as the Surety / Mediator of His People, redeemed His People from their iniquities , transgressions, under both testaments, so that they may be called unto the obtaining of the Eternal Inheritance, which is Heaven ! Its the same as being called unto His Kingdom and Glory 1 Thess 1:12

That ye would walk worthy of God, who hath called you unto his kingdom and glory. or

to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ 2 Thess 2:14

Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Also its the same Inheritance Peter writes of here 1 Pet 1:3-4

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,

And its the one Paul refers to here Gal 3:18

18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it[The Inheritance] to Abraham by promise.

And the writer of Hebrews mentions it Heb 11:8

8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

Note: Many think that the Inheritance of Heb 11:8 promised to Abraham was physical land of this earth over in the middle east, but they are deceived, it was a Heavenly Inheritance as Per Heb 11:16

16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

And all the seed shall be called unto the obtaining of it, that is, "they which are called" in Heb 9:15

15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

In the original its "οἱ κεκλημένοι " the having been called ones, notice the definite article for the ones being called, its not all mankind that this call goes out to !

This Inheritance is bequeathed upon all Christ died for, His Seed or the Seed of Abraham, and His Death secured the Inheritance unto them ! 38

reneweddaybyday · Oct 7, 2023

brightfame52 said:

brightfame52 ... you conflate words in the same manner you conflate verses of Scripture ... and conflating words and/or verses of Scripture is not proper interpretation in order to rightly divide the Word of truth (2 Tim 2:15).

When God says "healed" [Greek iaomai], God means iaomai.

When God says "salvation" [Greek sózó], God means sózó.

When you conflate the two words you will not come to proper interpretation of Scripture.

brightfame52 said:

Please note that the verse does not state "heal me and I shall be saved".

What the verse says is when the Lord heals, the person is healed ... when the Lord saves, the person is saved.

To fully understand what I am saying, please read the following record:

Luke 17:

12 And as he [the Lord Jesus Christ] entered into a certain village, there met him ten men that were lepers, which stood afar off:

13 And they lifted up their voices, and said, Jesus, Master, have mercy on us.

14 And when he saw them, he said unto them, Go shew yourselves unto the priests. And it came to pass, that, as they went, they were cleansed.

15 And one of them, when he saw that he was healed, turned back, and with a loud voice glorified God,

16 And fell down on his face at his feet, giving him thanks: and he was a Samaritan.

17 And Jesus answering said, Were there not ten cleansed? but where are the nine?

18 There are not found that returned to give glory to God, save this stranger.

19 And he said unto him, Arise, go thy way: thy faith hath made thee whole.

All 10 lepers were healed ... the only one who was made whole [Greek sózó i.e. saved] was the one who glorified God ... the one who worshipped at the feet of Jesus.

And please also note that the one who was saved was a Samaritan ... he was not of the "elect" Jews.

brightfame52 said:

inasmuch as the Lord Jesus Christ died to take away the sins of all mankind ... all descendants of Adam ... and we know that some will find themselves cast into the lake of fire ... your claim is error.

brightfame52 said:

While it is true that every born again one is set at liberty from the dominion of sin (Rom 6:18), each born again believer is to reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord (Rom 6:11).

Romans 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

You really need to learn to read each verse in Scripture within the context in which the verse has been placed by the Author of Scripture ... and that includes ALL the verses set forth in post 1844 ...
.

reneweddaybyday · Oct 7, 2023

brightfame52 said:

... brightfame52 ... I have already explained to you here that in Romans 1:17 the word "shall" does not appear in the text.

brightfame52 said:

read the verse again, brightfame52:

John 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

the words "they shall hear" are translated from the Greek word akouó which means hear.

the words "there shall be" are translated from the Greek word ginomai which means to become.

the word "shall" does not appear in the text at all in that verse ... your whole premise is faulty at its inception.

again, since your whole premise is faulty, the rest of your reasoning is void of truth ... Post 1845 is false on its face.

READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
.

reneweddaybyday · Oct 7, 2023

brightfame52 said:

again ... inasmuch as the Lord Jesus Christ died to take away the sins of all mankind ... all descendants of Adam ... and we know that some will find themselves cast into the lake of fire ... your claim is error.

brightfame52 said:

The Greek word "κεκλημένοι" [keklēmenoi] is also used in Matthew 22

Matthew 22:

2 The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son,

3 And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.

4 Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage.

5 But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise:

6 And the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them.

7 But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.

8 Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden [Greek κεκλημένοι] were not worthy.

... so, those who are "κεκλημένοι" [keklēmenoi] may decide not to respond to the calling ...

Hebrews 9:

12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:

14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called [Greek κεκλημένοι] might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

in vs 15, the words "might receive" are translated from the Greek word lambanō which means actively lay hold of to take or receive, to lay hold by aggressively (actively) accepting what is available ... emphasizes the volition (assertiveness) of the receiver - HELPS Word-studies.

... so, those who were under the first covenant and who are "κεκλημένοι" [keklēmenoi] may decide not to actively lay hold of the new covenant in which the promise of eternal inheritance is received ...

brightfame52 said:

... it would be "the same" if the words in the text were the same.

You made it a point to advise that the Greek word in Heb 9:15 is the word κεκλημένοι, but you neglected to inform that the Greek word in 1 Thess 2:12 is the word καλοῦντος.

just more of your shoddy workmanship when it comes to rightly dividing the Word of truth, brightfame52.

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
.

brightfame52 · Oct 8, 2023

reneweddaybyday said:

brightfame52 ... you conflate words in the same manner you conflate verses of Scripture ... and conflating words and/or verses of Scripture is not proper interpretation in order to rightly divide the Word of truth (2 Tim 2:15).

When God says "healed" [Greek iaomai], God means iaomai.

When God says "salvation" [Greek sózó], God means sózó.

When you conflate the two words you will not come to proper interpretation of Scripture.

Please note that the verse does not state "heal me and I shall be saved".

What the verse says is when the Lord heals, the person is healed ... when the Lord saves, the person is saved.

To fully understand what I am saying, please read the following record:

Luke 17:

12 And as he [the Lord Jesus Christ] entered into a certain village, there met him ten men that were lepers, which stood afar off:

13 And they lifted up their voices, and said, Jesus, Master, have mercy on us.

14 And when he saw them, he said unto them, Go shew yourselves unto the priests. And it came to pass, that, as they went, they were cleansed.

15 And one of them, when he saw that he was healed, turned back, and with a loud voice glorified God,

16 And fell down on his face at his feet, giving him thanks: and he was a Samaritan.

17 And Jesus answering said, Were there not ten cleansed? but where are the nine?

18 There are not found that returned to give glory to God, save this stranger.

19 And he said unto him, Arise, go thy way: thy faith hath made thee whole.

All 10 lepers were healed ... the only one who was made whole [Greek sózó i.e. saved] was the one who glorified God ... the one who worshipped at the feet of Jesus.

And please also note that the one who was saved was a Samaritan ... he was not of the "elect" Jews.

inasmuch as the Lord Jesus Christ died to take away the sins of all mankind ... all descendants of Adam ... and we know that some will find themselves cast into the lake of fire ... your claim is error.

While it is true that every born again one is set at liberty from the dominion of sin (Rom 6:18), each born again believer is to reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord (Rom 6:11).

Romans 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

You really need to learn to read each verse in Scripture within the context in which the verse has been placed by the Author of Scripture ... and that includes ALL the verses set forth in post 1844 ...
.

Opposing the Truth

brightfame52 · Oct 8, 2023

reneweddaybyday said:

... brightfame52 ... I have already explained to you here that in Romans 1:17 the word "shall" does not appear in the text.

read the verse again, brightfame52:

John 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

the words "they shall hear" are translated from the Greek word akouó which means hear.

the words "there shall be" are translated from the Greek word ginomai which means to become.

the word "shall" does not appear in the text at all in that verse ... your whole premise is faulty at its inception.

again, since your whole premise is faulty, the rest of your reasoning is void of truth ... Post 1845 is false on its face.

READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
.

Opposing the Truth

brightfame52 · Oct 8, 2023

reneweddaybyday said:

again ... inasmuch as the Lord Jesus Christ died to take away the sins of all mankind ... all descendants of Adam ... and we know that some will find themselves cast into the lake of fire ... your claim is error.

The Greek word "κεκλημένοι" [keklēmenoi] is also used in Matthew 22

Matthew 22:

2 The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son,

3 And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.

4 Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage.

5 But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise:

6 And the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them.

7 But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.

8 Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden [Greek κεκλημένοι] were not worthy.

... so, those who are "κεκλημένοι" [keklēmenoi] may decide not to respond to the calling ...

Hebrews 9:

12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:

14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called [Greek κεκλημένοι] might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

in vs 15, the words "might receive" are translated from the Greek word lambanō which means actively lay hold of to take or receive, to lay hold by aggressively (actively) accepting what is available ... emphasizes the volition (assertiveness) of the receiver - HELPS Word-studies.

... so, those who were under the first covenant and who are "κεκλημένοι" [keklēmenoi] may decide not to actively lay hold of the new covenant in which the promise of eternal inheritance is received ...

... it would be "the same" if the words in the text were the same.

You made it a point to advise that the Greek word in Heb 9:15 is the word κεκλημένοι, but you neglected to inform that the Greek word in 1 Thess 2:12 is the word καλοῦντος.

just more of your shoddy workmanship when it comes to rightly dividing the Word of truth, brightfame52.

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
.

Opposing the Truth that was explained.

evyaniy · Oct 8, 2023

The just shall live by faith is a promise of life to us who have faith in the Son for the forgiveness of sins. The order of the words tends to hide this. If the order of the words is changed to "The just by faith shall live" as it is in the Greek the promise becomes more clear. By our faith we receive the promise of life.

ForestGreenCook · Oct 8, 2023

reneweddaybyday said:

If, as you claim, "the elect" were reconciled to God before they are born, they have no need of reconciliation.

You continue to peddle a false dogma which does not bring the sinner to the Lord Jesus Christ in Whom the sinner is reconciled to God.

Romans 5:10-11 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

Prior to being born again, all descendants of Adam were "enemies" in need of the redemption which is in Christ Jesus:

Romans 3:

22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

All descendants of Adam have sinned and come short of the glory of God (vs 23).

However, in vs 22 we read that the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe. Those who believe in the Lord Jesus Christ ...

And in vs 25 we read that it is the Lord Jesus Christ Who God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood. Again, descendants of Adam who believe ...

Under your scenario, "the elect" do not have to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ because "[e]ven before the elect are born into this world as sinners, they have already ... been reconciled to God" . Quit peddling your false dogma. Read your Bible.

Being born again spiritually by Gods grace comes before a person can believe in spiritual things (1 Cor 2:14).

reneweddaybyday · Oct 8, 2023

brightfame52 said:

... nope ... Post 1848 exposes the error in your 1844 surmisings.

brightfame52 said:

... nope ... Post 1849 exposes the error in your 1845 surmisings.

brightfame52 said:

... nope ... Post 1850 exposes the error in your 1847 surmisings.

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
.

reneweddaybyday · Oct 8, 2023

evyaniy said:

my understanding of the phrase from faith to faith is that the born again believer lives from faith to faith – not from works to faith or from faith to works ... from faith to faith. The life of the born again one begins in faith and the born again one is to continue to live by faith alone.

and, yes, in agreement "The just by faith shall live".

.

reneweddaybyday · Oct 8, 2023

ForestGreenCook said:

... you also believe a person must be born again before he or she can believe the gospel by which a person is born again.

Romans 1:

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it [the gospel of Christ] is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein [in the gospel of Christ] is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

The gospel of Christ is the power of God unto salvation to those who believe.

The person who believes is born again and he or she receives the blessing of the promise of God.

Romans 1:

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold [Greek katechō] the truth in unrighteousness

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

vs 18 – the words "who hold" are translated from the Greek word katechō which means to suppress, to restrain.

vs 19 – God has clearly revealed His truth to those who suppress the truth.

When a person suppresses the truth of the gospel in unrighteousness, that person does not receive the power of God unto salvation ... not because he or she cannot hear ... not because he or she cannot believe ... but because the power of God unto salvation is rejected and God allows folks to reject.

Sadly, they shall receive the consequence of their rejection of God's truth.
.

brightfame52 · Oct 9, 2023

No condemnation upon them Christ died for !

Did you know that its impossible for any that Christ died for, to come under God's condemnation ? In fact here is a promise for all whom Christ died, even before they believe Jn 5:24

24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Now Rom 8:1 informs us that there is no condemnation [imputed or charged]to them which are IN Christ Jesus See 2 Tim 1:9 ! And yet its also clear in scripture that there is a non imputation or a exclusion of condemnation to those for whom Christ died Rom 8:33-34

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

In other words, being condemned is offset by the fact that Christ died !

Also for those same ones He died, He maketh intercession for at the Right Hand of God. This Intercession for them is not conditioned upon them believing in Him, but upon His dying for them !

Those He makes intercession for, cannot come into condemnation, whether they are believing or not.

He intercedes in their behalf if they believe or not. You see all for whom Christ died, they have already received [by imputation] redemption through His Blood and the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His Grace Eph 1:7

7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

They have this regardless of their unbelief, its strictly according to the riches of His Grace,

So they have as unbelievers, based upon redemption and grace alone Justification Rom 3:24

24 Being justified or free from condemnation freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Yes even as unbelievers those Christ died for are Justified from all condemnation, because Christ died, He died because their condemnation was charged to Him and not them. Now that He has satisfied God's Justice, they never come into condemnation, but they shall be passed from death to life ! 38

reneweddaybyday · Oct 11, 2023

brightfame52 said:

you need to read the verse again, brightfame52 ...

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

brightfqme52 said:

inasmuch as the Lord Jesus Christ died to take away the sins of all mankind ... all descendants of Adam ... and we know that some will find themselves cast into the lake of fire ... your claim is error.

brightfqme52 said:

more sleight of men and cunning craftiness (Eph 4:14) here, brightfame52, as you properly cite "them which are IN Christ Jesus" as shown in Rom 8:1 ... then re-direct to 2 Tim 1:9 rather than read from Rom 8:1 (the direct context of Rom 8:33-34) ... and then change "IN Christ Jesus" to "those for whom Christ died" when you read Rom 8:33-34.

and again, I direct you to John 5:24:

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

brightfame52 said:

Ephesians 1:7 refers to those who are faithful in Christ Jesus (Eph 1:1) ... you pull same ole switcheroo here as you did with Rom 8.

brightfame52 said:

...

Romans 3:

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

brightfame52 said:

... read the verse again, brightfame52:

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

John 3:16-18 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

you, brightfame52, preach "another gospel" ...
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The Atonement: What did it REALLY Accomplish?

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