The Glasgow razor boy and eternal security

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Evmur

Evmur

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#181
oyster67 said:
Have you made a decision to follow Jesus, or haven't you? Have you called upon the name of the Lord, or haven't you? There is no middle ground. No can coast through life in neutral hoping Calvin will save them. That is not the Gospel. That is not the way it works. Not even close.
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what are you even talkin' Oy?

It works like this.

One day the disciples were out fishing and caught nowt but Jesus called from the shore cast your net out on the other side and when they did they caught a shed load of fishes and He said "bring some of the fish you have caught"

"you have caught..." God is so gracious to us, He makes it as though we had done it.

God wills IN US to do of His good pleasure, it's all Him and there's no resisting, ask Paul.

Every day God was goading Paul but he kicked against it, He heard Stephen preach, his face lit up like an angel, Paul saw the miracles Stephen did and it just made him gnash his teeth. Paul was like religious fanatics today, ferocious, murderous.

So Paul resisted this LOVE revelation, he couldn't away with it. Was his resistance successful? it was no more successful than Jonah's had been. Technically Paul coulda refused. But I'll tell you if a light shines down from heaven brighter than the noonday sun and knocks you off your horse blind you squeak like Paul did "who are You Lord?"

You think people have a right to resist [most especially Americans] but the only One with any rights is God.

Yes He called and yes I followed Him, I'm like Peter who said "where else can we go?"

God is not a democrat, Heaven is not a democracy. God gets our submission and jolly glad we are when He does.
 
Evmur

Evmur

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#182
The_Watchers_2017 said:
dude, i just presented that the WORD FAITH in the BIBLE when Connected to GOD, is ALWAYS the SAVING FAITH.

so,
1 Timothy 4:1 speaks about....the SAVING FAITH of CHRIST - Followers of the SAVING FAITH are LEAVING.

4:1 But the Spirit speaks expressly that in latter times some shall apostatize from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and teachings of demons
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Bold am I

whatever superior [to my] education you are quoting I say when Jude speaks of the faith once delivered and Paul the faith in Timothy they are speaking about the faith whereby we are saved.
 
JimmyTheLock

JimmyTheLock

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Everlasting-Grace said:
If you can still fall into deep habitual sin. You’re still a dog. And have not been changed.

Take the focus off self and put it on God where it belongs
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Here's what you don't get and have failed to learn and understand due to having your understanding darkened by following doctrine not taught by the Lord:

John 15:1,2
I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. John 15:5 IF A MAN ABIDE NOT IN ME, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

*** WHO... is to do the abiding according to Jesus???? That’s right, WE are!

John 15:4,5
Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

*** WHO... is to do the abiding according to Jesus???? That’s right, WE are!

John 15:8-10
Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples. As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love. If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

HOW are we to abide in Christ, thru our own strength and ability???
NO... thru the Lord Who strengthens us!

Philippians 4:13
I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.


It's too bad you OSAS fellas don't accept the whole counsel of God... you missing out on some good stuff from the Lord!

awake_unto_righteousness.jpg
 
The_Watchers_2017

The_Watchers_2017

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Evmur said:
Bold am I

whatever superior [to my] education you are quoting I say when Jude speaks of the faith once delivered and Paul the faith in Timothy they are speaking about the faith whereby we are saved.
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so, how many Faiths represent God?

you are trying to swindle at least 2 here, but Scholars and Theologians, would firmly disagree with and dismiss any sort of assessment presented from you in this matter.
 
NightTwister

NightTwister

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#185
oyster67 said:
Have you made a decision to follow Jesus, or haven't you? Have you called upon the name of the Lord, or haven't you? There is no middle ground. No can coast through life in neutral hoping Calvin will save them. That is not the Gospel. That is not the way it works. Not even close.
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Why must you continue to bear false witness against your Christian brothers?
 
E

Everlasting-Grace

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JimmyTheLock said:
Here's what you don't get and have failed to learn and understand due to having your understanding darkened by following doctrine not taught by the Lord:

John 15:1,2
I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. John 15:5 IF A MAN ABIDE NOT IN ME, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

*** WHO... is to do the abiding according to Jesus???? That’s right, WE are!

John 15:4,5
Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

*** WHO... is to do the abiding according to Jesus???? That’s right, WE are!

John 15:8-10
Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples. As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love. If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

HOW are we to abide in Christ, thru our own strength and ability???
NO... thru the Lord Who strengthens us!

Philippians 4:13
I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.


It's too bad you OSAS fellas don't accept the whole counsel of God... you missing out on some good stuff from the Lord!

View attachment 257870
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That is about bearing fruit.

Notabout earning salvation.

Nice try though
 
wattie

wattie

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#187
Everlasting-Grace said:
That is about bearing fruit.

Notabout earning salvation.

Nice try though
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Yup.. verses about cutting off for Christians need to be compared to the fact of them having eternal life. Pruning is not destroying. Discipline is not sending to hell.. judging is not condemning for a believer
 
Evmur

Evmur

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#188
oyster67 said:
Have you made a decision to follow Jesus, or haven't you? Have you called upon the name of the Lord, or haven't you? There is no middle ground. No can coast through life in neutral hoping Calvin will save them. That is not the Gospel. That is not the way it works. Not even close.
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What are you talkin' "made a decision"?

Jesus beckoned Peter on the seashore and said "follow Me" and then James and John mending their nets He said "follow Me" nobody argues or sits down to think about it. We know what Peter was like, James and John were sons of thunder. I don't know what American fishermen are like I know what British fishermen are like, they are not folks you want to mess with yet James and John left off mending their nets, left their dad and followed Him.

He's a King, He's the one who said "let there be light" and there was light. He commands. The apostles don't say we decided of our own free will, we chose Jesus," they say God chose us.

Where is all this free will in the bible?

My brothers I implore you by the mercy of God present your very selves to Him a living sacrifice which is your acceptable service, do not be conformed to this present age but be ye TRANSFORMED by the renewing of your mind that you might discern what is that good and perfect will of God.

Now you don't have to, you can just carry on witholding from God, go on with your old way of thinking, doing your own will ...

I have never said man doesn't have a will. But it isn't free, it is in bondage and that's where it will lead folks even though they be saved. Look at the church, tell me if it is not true?

Don't you know we's the temple of God? don't you know that God created man to be the expression of Himself? His will? His wisdom? His love? God is a spirit He doesn't have a form, a body through which to express Himself ... THAT'S what we are created for, that is our purpose. Yes Jesus but we are the body of Christ.

Do you know why you run away from this? because you do not fully trust God, you do not fully trust that He does know what is best for you, that His will for you is perfect. It's not about being puppets, it's about having Jesus living and dwelling and having His being IN US.
 
E

Everlasting-Grace

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#189
wattie said:
Yup.. verses about cutting off for Christians need to be compared to the fact of them having eternal life. Pruning is not destroying. Discipline is not sending to hell.. judging is not condemning for a believer
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Amen, Jesus said I WILL never perish and I HAVE eternal life.

Eternal life is not a toy that can be lost or Broken. It was paid for by the blood of Christ. "Paid in full" or as the english text says "it is finished"
 
Evmur

Evmur

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#190
oyster67 said:
Have you made a decision to follow Jesus, or haven't you? Have you called upon the name of the Lord, or haven't you? There is no middle ground. No can coast through life in neutral hoping Calvin will save them. That is not the Gospel. That is not the way it works. Not even close.
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Only people with money talk about free will, now I believe in godly prosperity, I believe that "God willest above all things that we may prosper and be in health even as our souls prosper" but with prosperity comes temptation, dangers, we are in danger of taking airs to ourselves.

With money comes choice, we can choose the kind of home we want to live in, the clothes we will wear, the car we will drive, whether we will chocolate or strawberry ice cream. People mistake this choosing for free will.

I bid you go to the streets of Calcutta or New Delhi and round up the beggars and preach to them freewill. They know what you don't know.

They know if they don't sit and beg they will die. To you death is down the road some, in the next block, but for them death is knocking at the door.

Death is what knocks the idea of free will outa our heads, we's gunna and all the free will in the world won't stop it see.

We are BOUND by 2 things, first of all we are bound by sin, everybody is a sinner and will sin. second we are bound to die.

These things actually GOVERN our lives, they rule over us, they decide our lifestyle. We must work if we don't work we will die, we must curtail our activities, get the proper amount of sleep otherwise we will be late for work, get the sack and die. The alternative is to beg.

Where is human freewill in any of this?

Of course when Jesus comes He sets us free, He grants us eternal life as a gift when we believe on Him. Sin and death no longer rule over us.
 
mailmandan

mailmandan

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#191
JimmyTheLock said:
John 15:1,2
I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. John 15:5 IF A MAN ABIDE NOT IN ME, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

*** WHO... is to do the abiding according to Jesus???? That’s right, WE are!

John 15:4,5
Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

*** WHO... is to do the abiding according to Jesus???? That’s right, WE are!

John 15:8-10
Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples. As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love. If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
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The Greek word for “abide” is "meno" which means to remain, tarry, not to depart, continue to be present. Abiding in Christ is not a special level of Christian experience that is only available to a few, elite Christians, but is the position of all true believers. 1 John 4:13 - By this we know that we abide in Him, and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit.. 15 Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God.

In John 15:2-6, the branches that bear fruit and remain are genuine believers (like the remaining 11 disciples). The self-attached branches that bear no fruit and do not remain are not genuine believers (like Judas Iscariot who was an unbelieving, unclean devil who betrayed Jesus - John 6:64-71; 13:10-11). In John 15:2, Jesus mentions branches that bear no fruit and branches that bear fruit, but Jesus says nothing about branches that bear fruit but then later stop bearing fruit.

Greek scholar AT Robertson points out that there are two kinds of connections with Christ as the vine (the merely cosmic which bears no fruit, the spiritual and vital which bears fruit). Probably (Bernard) Jesus here refers to Judas. (Proverbs 27:17)

John 15 - Robertson's Word Pictures in the New Testament - Bible Commentaries - StudyLight.org

When Jesus spoke these words in John 15, how many people at that time, prior to Him being glorified, had received the Holy Spirit and were baptized by one Spirit into one body? - "the body of Christ?" (1 Corinthians 12:13) -- NONE.

This is where you need to rightly divide the word of truth.

John 7:38 - He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water. 39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

So "in me" is part of the metaphor of the vine (in the vine) and not in the body of Christ under the new covenant which was not yet fully established. Without that vital union with Christ, there can be no spiritual life and no productivity. Those who profess to know Christ but whose relationship to Him is self-attached, Christ neither saved them, nor sustains them. Eventually, the dead self-attached fruitless branches are cut off.

HOW are we to abide in Christ, thru our own strength and ability???
NO... thru the Lord Who strengthens us!

Philippians 4:13
I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.
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At least you got that part right.

It's too bad you OSAS fellas don't accept the whole counsel of God... you missing out on some good stuff from the Lord!
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Sinless perfection and salvation by works is not the whole counsel of God. Missing out on a false gospel is not good stuff.
 
Evmur

Evmur

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#192
JimmyTheLock said:
Here's what you don't get and have failed to learn and understand due to having your understanding darkened by following doctrine not taught by the Lord:

John 15:1,2
I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. John 15:5 IF A MAN ABIDE NOT IN ME, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

*** WHO... is to do the abiding according to Jesus???? That’s right, WE are!

John 15:4,5
Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

*** WHO... is to do the abiding according to Jesus???? That’s right, WE are!

John 15:8-10
Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples. As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love. If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

HOW are we to abide in Christ, thru our own strength and ability???
NO... thru the Lord Who strengthens us!

Philippians 4:13
I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.


It's too bad you OSAS fellas don't accept the whole counsel of God... you missing out on some good stuff from the Lord!

View attachment 257870
Click to expand...
But you are not abiding in Him are you. You have fallen back to trusting in your own faithfulness, your own steadfastness. This must involve keeping the commandments, obeying the law for what other measurement of righteousness [God's righteousness excepted] is there? Then the church would need to have judges but God has not appointed any judges for the church, it is not a Christian ministry.

Anyone who judges is self appointed.

We are abiding in Christ and in His once for all time and eternity sacrifice. Jesus is not going to come and die for sins again is He therefore if He has not borne all your sin, past present and future on the cross, there is no further sacrifice ... this is exactly what the writer of Hebrews says, not that we lose our salvation but that we must return to the once and forever sacrifice of the cross.

Past present and future sins all washed away including murders and homosexuality, but it is legitimate for us evaluate whether such were saved in the first place.

The church has been given the mechanism to deal with all these things and none of them include damnation see.

There was a notable sinner at Corinth, he was committing sexual sin with his mother, that ranks with any sin. The solution Paul gave was for the guy to be chucked out of the assembly and delivered unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh that the spirit may be saved. He later repented and Paul ordered that the assembly should receive him and comfort him.

I don't know I think most every Christian backslides, usually [I did] within days of being saved and what we do is go back to that sin which is familiar to us [that is what my OP is about] I say a homosexual is in very real danger of going back to that in that first fierce temptation. If our salvation was real we will be very, very sorrowful about it and resolve to never go back to it again ... the root of sin that was in us is gone and we can no longer enjoy the sin lifestyle.

We have to learn to overcome all sin and be victorious.

The no one lesson to learn is to KNOW that sin is gone forever, washed away, cut up at the roots. If you don't KNOW that you will certainly backslide.

I had a young lady got saved, very attractive she was, very worldly yet she got saved. She had been dumped by a very mean boyfriend and was heartbroke.

Guess who visited that night in the late hours? yes it was him, he'd heard she had become a Christian and thought he would test her out ... sure enough she fell [how easy it is for girls] and he laughed cruelly at her and left her twice the mess she had been before.

Oh when I saw her she was sobbing her heart out "I'll never be any good I'm just a common slut" even before the words left her mouth and before I heard her God spoke to me "What God hath cleansed thou shalt not call common"

"what does it mean? what does it mean?" she wailed ... fearful of what I would say. But I only had GOOD NEWS for her. I explained that God had heard her prayer and she was forgiven, she was now a daughter, a child of God etc.

She went on with the Lord, and became a useful member of the local assembly.
 
Evmur

Evmur

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#193
Evmur said:
But you are not abiding in Him are you. You have fallen back to trusting in your own faithfulness, your own steadfastness. This must involve keeping the commandments, obeying the law for what other measurement of righteousness [God's righteousness excepted] is there? Then the church would need to have judges but God has not appointed any judges for the church, it is not a Christian ministry.

Anyone who judges is self appointed.

We are abiding in Christ and in His once for all time and eternity sacrifice. Jesus is not going to come and die for sins again is He therefore if He has not borne all your sin, past present and future on the cross, there is no further sacrifice ... this is exactly what the writer of Hebrews says, not that we lose our salvation but that we must return to the once and forever sacrifice of the cross.

Past present and future sins all washed away including murders and homosexuality, but it is legitimate for us evaluate whether such were saved in the first place.

The church has been given the mechanism to deal with all these things and none of them include damnation see.

There was a notable sinner at Corinth, he was committing sexual sin with his mother, that ranks with any sin. The solution Paul gave was for the guy to be chucked out of the assembly and delivered unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh that the spirit may be saved. He later repented and Paul ordered that the assembly should receive him and comfort him.

I don't know I think most every Christian backslides, usually [I did] within days of being saved and what we do is go back to that sin which is familiar to us [that is what my OP is about] I say a homosexual is in very real danger of going back to that in that first fierce temptation. If our salvation was real we will be very, very sorrowful about it and resolve to never go back to it again ... the root of sin that was in us is gone and we can no longer enjoy the sin lifestyle.

We have to learn to overcome all sin and be victorious.

The no one lesson to learn is to KNOW that sin is gone forever, washed away, cut up at the roots. If you don't KNOW that you will certainly backslide.

I had a young lady got saved, very attractive she was, very worldly yet she got saved. She had been dumped by a very mean boyfriend and was heartbroke.

Guess who visited that night in the late hours? yes it was him, he'd heard she had become a Christian and thought he would test her out ... sure enough she fell [how easy it is for girls] and he laughed cruelly at her and left her twice the mess she had been before.

Oh when I saw her she was sobbing her heart out "I'll never be any good I'm just a common slut" even before the words left her mouth and before I heard her God spoke to me "What God hath cleansed thou shalt not call common"

"what does it mean? what does it mean?" she wailed ... fearful of what I would say. But I only had GOOD NEWS for her. I explained that God had heard her prayer and she was forgiven, she was now a daughter, a child of God etc.

She went on with the Lord, and became a useful member of the local assembly.
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Aw I wish folks would know that God loves people, God loves the sinner, He loves his backsliding ones. He never gives up, never gives up.

"He who began the good work in us will also bring it through to completion at the day of the Lord"

He BEGAN we didn't begin the good work.
 
oyster67

oyster67

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Evmur said:
One day the disciples were out fishing and caught nowt but Jesus called from the shore cast your net out on the other side and when they did they caught a shed load of fishes and He said "bring some of the fish you have caught"

"you have caught..." God is so gracious to us, He makes it as though we had done it.
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????????

They were not saved because they caught those fish and brought them to shore.
They were saved because they left all and followed Jesus. Not all that were called to follow Jesus did so...

Mark 10:
21Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me. 22And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had great possessions. 23And Jesus looked round about, and saith unto his disciples, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God! 24And the disciples were astonished at his words. But Jesus answereth again, and saith unto them, Children, how hard is it for them that trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God!

It is time to stop denying the obvious and simple truth of the Gospel; We need to say "yes" to Jesus.
 
Evmur

Evmur

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#195
oyster67 said:
????????

They were not saved because they caught those fish and brought them to shore.
They were saved because they left all and followed Jesus. Not all that were called to follow Jesus did so...

Mark 10:
21Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me. 22And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had great possessions. 23And Jesus looked round about, and saith unto his disciples, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God! 24And the disciples were astonished at his words. But Jesus answereth again, and saith unto them, Children, how hard is it for them that trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God!

It is time to stop denying the obvious and simple truth of the Gospel; We need to say "yes" to Jesus.
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tut tut
 
Evmur

Evmur

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#196
oyster67 said:
????????

They were not saved because they caught those fish and brought them to shore.
They were saved because they left all and followed Jesus. Not all that were called to follow Jesus did so...

Mark 10:
21Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me. 22And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had great possessions. 23And Jesus looked round about, and saith unto his disciples, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God! 24And the disciples were astonished at his words. But Jesus answereth again, and saith unto them, Children, how hard is it for them that trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God!

It is time to stop denying the obvious and simple truth of the Gospel; We need to say "yes" to Jesus.
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actually it was those who "chose of their own free will that were turned away"
 
oyster67

oyster67

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Evmur said:
actually it was those who "chose of their own free will that were turned away"
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Those who chose to follow were not turned away. That who chose to reject were not dragged along. You need to take a moment to contemplate the nuttiness of what you are posting.
 
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