A calm look at one central question

I would like a calm, objective, philosophical reflection on the essence of retaliation/revenge when violence has happened.

So, if someone kills your family, what results if you kill their family? Two sets of innocent people die. When such a thing happens, can it bring justice or satisfaction?

I request a non-political, non-emotional set of thoughts on this please. Hard though this is. Everywhere people are arguing with hearts that have hardened.

I personally do not have knowledge of politics, all I am thinking of, as a woman and as a mother and a grandmother, is that children and women are suffering in the Israel/Gaza conflict on both sides. This is extreme tragedy. How can it ever be resolved?

Please don't fight with words, just look at the question and give your view.

Perhaps Not the Best Choice of Analogy:
1.) We probably shouldn't use a personal analogy to understand an international problem.
2.) Why?
3.) The ethics of a personal conflict may encompass entirely different issues than the ethics of a national conflict.

We don't want to compare apples and oranges.

Better Analogy?
1.) It may be best to skip analogies, and not even try to use one - a reductionistic reframing is too likely to create points of error.
2.) If your point is to talk about Israel/Gaza (and you said it is), then you should probably ask questions about Israel/Gaza.
3.) It's probably a mistake to reframe a complex international issue as a simple problem between two people... it's probably better to just talk about the actual international issue.

Some Discussion on Retaliation:
1.) If we were really going to dig into this, we'd have to define "retaliate" very specifically, as it relates to personal conflicts, and then we'd have to define it very specifically as it relates to international conflicts.
2.) Then we'd have to consider, based on our new and careful definitions, if there are ever circumstances where retaliation is appropriate.
3.) We would probably find that is IS sometimes appropriate, depending on the definition of retaliation that we use, and depending on the circumstances.


God Bless.

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I would like a calm, objective, philosophical reflection on the essence of retaliation/revenge when violence has happened.

So, if someone kills your family, what results if you kill their family? Two sets of innocent people die. When such a thing happens, can it bring justice or satisfaction?

I request a non-political, non-emotional set of thoughts on this please. Hard though this is. Everywhere people are arguing with hearts that have hardened.

I personally do not have knowledge of politics, all I am thinking of, as a woman and as a mother and a grandmother, is that children and women are suffering in the Israel/Gaza conflict on both sides. This is extreme tragedy. How can it ever be resolved?

Please don't fight with words, just look at the question and give your view.

I would like a calm, objective, philosophical reflection on the essence of retaliation/revenge when violence has happened.

So, if someone kills your family, what results if you kill their family? Two sets of innocent people die. When such a thing happens, can it bring justice or satisfaction?

I request a non-political, non-emotional set of thoughts on this please. Hard though this is. Everywhere people are arguing with hearts that have hardened.

I personally do not have knowledge of politics, all I am thinking of, as a woman and as a mother and a grandmother, is that children and women are suffering in the Israel/Gaza conflict on both sides. This is extreme tragedy. How can it ever be resolved?

Please don't fight with words, just look at the question and give your view.

God occasionally ordered retaliation, and sometimes even specified the Israelites should not have pity on the women and children.

So yeah, it's a situational thing.

Now that I find hard to reconcile with a loving God.
As far as I know, Christ never directed anyone to violence. It is Him I place my faith in.

Now that I find hard to reconcile with a loving God.
As far as I know, Christ never directed anyone to violence. It is Him I place my faith in.

Jesus said at one place He came not to bring peace, but a sword...Matthew 10:34-36. The balance of God's love with His holiness and justice is a difficult subject for some. But we find both throughout the Bible. It was God's justice that brought about the cross through which we have peace with God. Often it is through judgment that salvation is found. Noah was delivered through the judgment of the world.
I share these examples to illustrate that God is both loving and just. Each of us has to work it out for ourselves.

Run a bible word search for "thine eye" and you'll get some results.
Deuteronomy 7:16, 13:8, 15:9, 19:13, 19:21, 25:12...

Imagery, I am certain.

Now that I find hard to reconcile with a loving God.

Resolving conflict requires good faith on both sides. Hamas has attacked Israel many times since 2006. Israel left Gaza to self rule and that's how Gazans repaid them. There is no good faith from Hamas. Gazans support terrorists. How many times would you put up with your neighbours burning down your house before calling in the police?

The war is not about revenge. it is about keeping the innocent safe from those who have no conscience. Hamas does not care about the innocent, as they prove by how they treat their own people, let alone Israelis. Gaza would be far better off without Hamas and the others who seek the destruction of Israel. Hamas uses Gazans as pawns in its own game.

If it was any nation apart from Israel, the world would tut tut and move on. Turkey bombs the Kurds. Syria uses chemical weapons on its own citizens. Russia continues to target civilians in Ukraine. Where is the outrage? Where are the street marches? How about the civil wars raging in North Africa? South Africa withdrew its ambassador. There are 70 murders a day in South Africa. Why don't they clean up their own back yard?

I am ex military so I know a little about war. I can tell you that it is most unusual to warn people before you bomb them. Israel has routinely warned civilians of impending attacks. That's because Israel targets the bad guys. I do not necessarily believe Israel is completely altruistic. They know that the world applies a standard to Israel that no one else has to meet. It is also not helpful politically internally to kill civilians. Unlike everywhere else in the Middle East, Israel is a democracy. Governments can be voted out. Israelis are a varied bunch. Their views range from nuke Iran to the stone age to stop the war now.

Israel's biggest mistake was to tolerate Hamas for so long. Hamas should have been smashed before they grew strong enough to mount the attack on 7th October.

I write this from a pragmatic point of view. Israel is not a Christian nation and should not be expected to behave as if it was. And what country, Christian or not, would tolerate continual violence as Hamas has carried out?

I've said all along that those who condemn Israel need to come up with a plan that does not involve the end of Israel. So far, not a word from the armchair "experts" and critics.

I would like a calm, objective, philosophical reflection on the essence of retaliation/revenge when violence has happened.

So, if someone kills your family, what results if you kill their family? Two sets of innocent people die. When such a thing happens, can it bring justice or satisfaction?

This is a question of suffering.
The thing about suffering if that you don’t understand suffering until you get suffering.
And even when you do get suffering, you’re first confused, in anger or in shock or in pure fight or flight mode. And God hasn’t entered the picture yet. But when God does, that’s when you realize that your worldview is so narrow and your new picture is so complex and heavy that the only logical thing is to leave this burden to God and ask for mercy and healing.

And as far as war goes, this man is my hero : Private First Class Desmond Doss.

The sword Jesus mentioned was just an image, I am certain.
He never ever harmed anyone nor asked his followers to. Indeed even when arrested , He told his men not to resist and he healed the soldier's ear that had been injured.
All he did was preach love and peace. He even said if we live in slavery, we must obey our masters.