The Security Of The Believer

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Everlasting-Grace

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#462
The_Watchers_2017 said:
that's why it says if you are producing fruit, you are being pruned.

but the none of the Branches can produce if it is not producing from the Source, the Vine.

Jesus specifically said, No fruit, which means no producing, the Branch is cut off.
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Vs one does not say it is cut off..
 
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Everlasting-Grace

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#463
Dec 18, 2021
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#463
The_Watchers_2017 said:
people can only produce what God intends for them to produce.

you act like you control how it can be done.

only thing we control, is whether we Obey or Not.
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I can;t control anything, all I can do is walk in step with the spirit..
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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#464
The_Watchers_2017 said:
to REMAIN in Him, or to ABIDE

which is a Command.

why is God Commanding this?
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Correct. So the teaching concerning salvation is ancillary. Hence, the takeaway is...the difference between those who believe and those who don't is the bearing of fruit. It is not concerned with falling away.
 
The_Watchers_2017

The_Watchers_2017

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#465
Kroogz said:
You may be right. So maybe? it pertains to fellowship and being cut off from fellowship? Because salvation is clear, direct and simple.(for us)
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there's a reason Jesus is saying this.
that's my point.
He only says things to Warn us or Help us.
 
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Everlasting-Grace

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Dec 18, 2021
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#466
Kroogz said:
You may be right. So maybe? it pertains to fellowship and being cut off from fellowship? Because salvation is clear, direct and simple.(for us)
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You are clean because of the word.

Not because we abide

we abide to produce fruit. that does not make us clean, we are already clean
 
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Everlasting-Grace

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#467
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#467
The_Watchers_2017 said:
there's a reason Jesus is saying this.
that's my point.
He only says things to Warn us or Help us.
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but we can take his warning wrong

Is he warning us to tell us we will lose salvation

or is he warning us to tell us we will not reap the benefits of producing fruit.
 
The_Watchers_2017

The_Watchers_2017

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#468
Cameron143 said:
Correct. So the teaching concerning salvation is ancillary. Hence, the takeaway is...the difference between those who believe and those who don't is the bearing of fruit. It is not concerned with falling away.
Click to expand...
i am not talking about Salvation.
but if you, the Branch, is cut off, tossed into the fire.
what has happened?
 
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Everlasting-Grace

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#469
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#469
The_Watchers_2017 said:
i am not talking about Salvation.
but if you, the Branch, is cut off, tossed into the fire.
what has happened?
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The branch is cut off.

But he is not cast to hell

there is no more condemnation to those in christ. they will never die, live forever, and have eternal life.

Why would you say it is not about salvation?
 
The_Watchers_2017

The_Watchers_2017

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#470
here's what Scholars and Theologians claim:

In verse 6, Jesus expands on what He said in verse 2: “If anyone does not abide not in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.” The unfruitful branch's ultimate end is the Lake of Fire.
 
The_Watchers_2017

The_Watchers_2017

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#471
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#471
i see no reason to doubt the Scholars and Theologians about this Issue.
 
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Everlasting-Grace

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#472
Dec 18, 2021
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#472
The_Watchers_2017 said:
here's what Scholars and Theologians claim:

In verse 6, Jesus expands on what He said in verse 2: “If anyone does not abide not in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.” The unfruitful branch's ultimate end is the Lake of Fire.
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In verse 2. The words translated take away, in the greek literally mean to "lift up"

Anyone who understands keeping a vine understands that if a branch is laying on the ground, it can not produce fruit. so the vinedresser LIFTS UP the branch and ties it up. It then starts to produce fruit. This is totally different than the context of verse 6

I would find different bible scholars..
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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#474
The_Watchers_2017 said:
i am not talking about Salvation.
but if you, the Branch, is cut off, tossed into the fire.
what has happened?
Click to expand...
It means you are an unbeliever. All believers bear fruit.
An example of what you are referring to is Matthew 7:21-23. They had works, but no fruit. Why? They had no relationship with Jesus...not actually attached to the vine.
 
The_Watchers_2017

The_Watchers_2017

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#475
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#475
i never just pick one, it needs to be a conglomerate view from at least 50 of them
 
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Kroogz

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#476
The_Watchers_2017 said:
people can only produce what God intends for them to produce.

you act like you control how it can be done.

only thing we control, is whether we Obey or Not.
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And I have seen individual believers produce many types/varieties of fruit.

In many ways, we do control how it is done. He showed us how to do it.

We have to be obeying the right things. And it is pretty simple.

Do not quench the Spirit.
Do not grieve the Spirit.
Be filled with the Spirit.
Walk in the Spirit.

Do those things and the rest of the 1600 or so commands will be fulfilled.
 
The_Watchers_2017

The_Watchers_2017

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#477
Cameron143 said:
It means you are an unbeliever. All believers bear fruit.
An example of what you are referring to is Matthew 7:21-23. They had works, but no fruit. Why? They had no relationship with Jesus...not actually attached to the vine.
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but Jesus said the Branch is Connected to Him, He uses the words [IN ME].
so, they are Believers.

2 He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit
 
The_Watchers_2017

The_Watchers_2017

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#478
The_Watchers_2017 said:
but Jesus said the Branch is Connected to Him, He uses the words [IN ME].
so, they are Believers.

2 He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit
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this is why this makes more sense to me:

22. Many will say to me in that day, 'My Lord, my Lord, have we not prophesied in your name, and in your name have cast out demons, and have done many mighty works in your name?'
23. And then I will confess to them, 'I have never known you, remove yourselves far from me, you workers of evil.'
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

Well-known member
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Mar 1, 2022
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#479
The_Watchers_2017 said:
here's what Scholars and Theologians claim:

In verse 6, Jesus expands on what He said in verse 2: “If anyone does not abide not in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.” The unfruitful branch's ultimate end is the Lake of Fire.
Click to expand...
There is nothing wrong with this understanding...only its application. Those cut off do end up in the lake of fire. But it doesn't state they were ever saved.
 
The_Watchers_2017

The_Watchers_2017

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#480
Cameron143 said:
There is nothing wrong with this understanding...only its application. Those cut off do end up in the lake of fire. But it doesn't state they were ever saved.
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how can you be IN CHRIST without ever being Saved?

that's literally impossible.
 
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