The Security Of The Believer

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Bible_Highlighter

Bible_Highlighter

Well-known member
#821
Nov 28, 2023
1,694
289
83
#821
Nehemiah6 said:
And yet you could not tell everyone that you are sinlessly perfect. So your salvation -- according to you -- is also in jeopardy. Are you happy with that kind of salvation, or are you even more righteous than the apostle Paul? Tell us straight out.
Click to expand...
If OSAS was true, I could just go back to my old life of sin and just believe on Jesus. I could have the best of both worlds.
But that’s not how it works. Anyone who reads the New Testament for any length of time is going to run into many warning passages to us believers. Only a person who does not want to see such verses because they want the easy way out is never going to see the light on the matter until it’s too late. Well, there are a very small few who do see the light on this topic and have come out of OSAS, but it is very rare. But I cannot change the truth of the Scriptures. They are very clear that salvation is conditional and you need to confess and forsake sin. If not, one is going to be toast. It’s just that simple. Granted, I do not want anyone to perish by any means.
 
Bible_Highlighter

Bible_Highlighter

Well-known member
#822
Nov 28, 2023
1,694
289
83
#822
Bible Highlighter said:
But in Eternal Security, you can sin and still be saved on some level.
Click to expand...
Romans34 said:
So how does one determine when he has exceeded that "level" and is lost again?
Click to expand...
When I made this statement, it is in reference to the two “Sin and Still be Saved” type Christian groups.

#1. The Hyper Grace Christians like George Sodini who believe you can sin in excess with impunity.
#2. The standard OSAS or sin and still be saved Christian. They believe that a Christian who commits murder, rape, theft is not a true Christian. They believe really horrible sins in a Christian life is an indication that they were never born again. Yet, when push comes to shove they believe 1 John 1:8 is a declaration that they must sin again and they are even saved while they do so. Granted, some believe you will have to confess of sin but they do not see confession of sin as salvific.

So this is what I was referring to when I said that in Eternal Security, you can sin on some level, and still be saved.
Some believe you can sin as much as you want, and others don’t. They think you can only sin on occasion or do lesser sins that are not as bad. Many of them both say stupid and unbiblical things like: “Just believe on the finished work of the cross for salvation” when that saying is not even in the Bible.

You said:
James 2:10, "For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all."
Click to expand...
Not all sin is the same. Jesus said there is a greater sin (John 19:11). 1 John 5:16-17 says there is a sin unto death and a sin not unto death. Jesus said to the Pharisees that they ignored the WEIGHTIER matters of the Law like: Love, justice, faith, and mercy (See Luke 11:42, and Matthew 23:23). Peter says in 1 Peter 3:21 that baptism is not for salvation. Yet, it is a command as a part of the great commission (Matthew 28:19). But Paul says that Christ did not send him to baptize but to preach the gospel (1 Corinthians 1:17). Psalms 19:12 talks about secret or hidden faults. Matthew 12:31-32 says that speaking bad words against the Holy Ghost can never be forgiven and speaking bad words against the Son (Jesus) can be forgiven. The sin of worshiping the beast in the future is so bad to GOD that their names are not even written in the book of life since the foundation of the world (See Revelation 13:8, and Revelation 17:8). Even life teaches us that not all sin is the same. For do you consider the breaking of the Law of going over the speed limit by 5 miles per hour (in driving a motor vehicle) as the same as the crime as murder? Surely not.

So what about James 2:10?

Well, this is the only verse that suggests (at first glance with a quick reading) that all sin is the same, and a reader who does use this verse to support this view has to do at the expense of ignoring so many other verses in the Bible.

James here is not talking about ceremonial laws in the New Covenant like baptism, the Lord's supper, etc. James is talking about the "Royal Law" (i.e. to love your neighbor) (James 2:8).

8 "If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:​
9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.​
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.​
11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law." (James 2:8-11).​

So in verse 10: When James says if you keep the whole Law , he is referring to the whole of the Royal Law (in loving your neighbor) and if you offend in one point in the keeping of this whole law of loving your neighbor, you are guilty of breaking all of God's laws. Verse 11 confirms this by it saying, "Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law." Paul says that loving your neighbor is the equivalent of the Moral Law (like do not murder, do not covet, etc.) (See Romans 13:8-10).
 
wattie

wattie

Senior Member
#823
Feb 24, 2009
3,062
1,035
113
New Zealand
#823
From :

http://solascriptura-tt.org/Soterio...assagesSomeUseToTeachLossSalvation-Pipers.htm

Regarding:

"I am the true vine, and My Father is the husbandman. Every branch in Me that beareth not fruit He taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, He purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in Me. I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in Me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without Me ye can do nothing. If a man abide not in Me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and, they are burned." (John 15:1-6)

1) "He taketh away" 15:2 means that those believers who do not bear fruit are taken away or lifted up out of their place. Taketh away = lifted up from the ground. The Father reserves the right to remove an unfruitful believer to heaven. This is maximum discipline of physical death. Fruitful branches are purged or pruned to bear more fruit. Therefore, both fruitful and unfruitful branches are under the immediate care of the Father (the Husbandman).
Purging means to cleanse a branch from filth and impurity by washing off insects, parasites and moss.
The washing is by the Word of God. (15:3)

2) "He is cast forth as a branch, and is withered." (15:6)
If a believer does not abide in Christ, he is out of fellowship with Christ, his public testimony is rejected by men, and his spiritual vitality is diminished or withered. He is like the castaway in 1 Corinthians 9:27 who is disapproved but not lost. All backsliders have a withered, reduced spiritual vitality.

3) "Men gather them, and cast them into the fire, they are burned." (15:6)
Notice the plural pronouns "them" and "they". It is not "men gather him, and cast him into the fire, and he is burned", as it would have been if it referred to losing salvation or to a professor. The "them" and "they" are what issues from the one who has been cast forth as a branch - dead works: wood, hay, stubble, which will be burned at the Judgment Seat of Christ, as 1 Corinthians 3:15 tells us: "If any man's work shall be burned (the same word as in John 15:6), he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire."

Hence "them" and "they" refer to the believers dead works which are burned up at the Judgment Seat of Christ.


So here you can see with this website.. they are showing the CONTEXT of these verses. They have been compared to other verses such as John 3:16, 5:24.. Ephesians 2:8-9 etc..

If we are gonna take a verse from it surrounds.. like a brick from a wall.. it no longer becomes part of the whole. It loses it's meaning. The whole bible harmonises perfectly.. and so these judgment and cutting off verses need to be put alongside the tons and tons of verses emphasising the security of the believer.
 
wattie

wattie

Senior Member
#824
Feb 24, 2009
3,062
1,035
113
New Zealand
#824
Bible_Highlighter said:
If OSAS was true, I could just go back to my old life of sin and just believe on Jesus. I could have the best of both worlds.
But that’s not how it works. Anyone who reads the New Testament for any length of time is going to run into many warning passages to us believers. Only a person who does not want to see such verses because they want the easy way out is never going to see the light on the matter until it’s too late. Well, there are a very small few who do see the light on this topic and have come out of OSAS, but it is very rare. But I cannot change the truth of the Scriptures. They are very clear that salvation is conditional and you need to confess and forsake sin. If not, one is going to be toast. It’s just that simple. Granted, I do not want anyone to perish by any means.
Click to expand...
You don't obey your parents because if you don't they will disown you. Your parents would never disown you if they are doing their job.

You don't serve God just because if you don't He will send you to hell. I serve God, because He loves me beyond my behaviour.. through His shed blood on the cross for my sins.. with His sealing of the Holy Spirit and guarantee of now and future eternal life.

OSAS doesn't mean.. 'now I will do whatever I want'.... this line has been addressed over and over and over and over by OSAS proponents that it is not what this means. You simply don't really understand the full affect of the atonement and full meaning of it. Grace compels the believer to be faithful! It doesn't compel them to sin more!

If you were given a gift with no strings attached.. you wouldn't be thankful? Come on now!
 
Bible_Highlighter

Bible_Highlighter

Well-known member
#825
Nov 28, 2023
1,694
289
83
#825
wattie said:
From :

http://solascriptura-tt.org/Soterio...assagesSomeUseToTeachLossSalvation-Pipers.htm

Regarding:

"I am the true vine, and My Father is the husbandman. Every branch in Me that beareth not fruit He taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, He purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in Me. I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in Me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without Me ye can do nothing. If a man abide not in Me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and, they are burned." (John 15:1-6)

1) "He taketh away" 15:2 means that those believers who do not bear fruit are taken away or lifted up out of their place. Taketh away = lifted up from the ground. The Father reserves the right to remove an unfruitful believer to heaven. This is maximum discipline of physical death. Fruitful branches are purged or pruned to bear more fruit. Therefore, both fruitful and unfruitful branches are under the immediate care of the Father (the Husbandman).
Purging means to cleanse a branch from filth and impurity by washing off insects, parasites and moss.
The washing is by the Word of God. (15:3)
Click to expand...
The idea of the branch being cast into the fire does not sound like Heaven. So this is a gross misinterpretation of seeing something in the text that simply is not there. Just look at the Parable of the Talents. It says that the unprofitable servant was cast into outer darkness where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth. Again, doesn’t sound good. Not sure why I am even having to tell you this. I am sure that the verses that sound like OSAS you do not bend over backwards to try and explain them away. But yet, you ignore context to defend them. Take for example John 10:28. The OSAS Christian loves that one. But the context is John 10:27 which says that it is the sheep that follow Jesus who will not be snatched out of His hand. It’s not talking about sinful or lazy sheep.

You said:
3) "Men gather them, and cast them into the fire, they are burned." (15:6)
Notice the plural pronouns "them" and "they". It is not "men gather him, and cast him into the fire, and he is burned", as it would have been if it referred to losing salvation or to a professor. The "them" and "they" are what issues from the one who has been cast forth as a branch - dead works: wood, hay, stubble, which will be burned at the Judgment Seat of Christ, as 1 Corinthians 3:15 tells us: "If any man's work shall be burned (the same word as in John 15:6), he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire."
Click to expand...
Well, 1 Corinthians 3 is not talking about any imaginary Bema Seat Judgment the OSAS Christians have cooked up. There is only one Judgment, and all will be present there. It is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the Judgment.

In regards to the parable of the building and it's materials in 1 Corinthians 3:

Paul says before the parable, "you are God's building."

So we are the materials that make up the building.

I believe Paul and the other apostles are a part of the foundation with Christ being the chief cornerstone or the ultimate baseline foundation (Ephesians 2:20), and that Paul's work in the gospel are the result of the Corinthians being initially saved by the gospel. However, Paul is now concerned that his labor in the gospel (concerning them) is now in vain because the Corinthians are now working the sins of strife and envying (Note: Paul condemns the sins of strife and envying when writing to the Galatians (Galatians 5:19-21). Paul says that they which do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God). In Galatians 4:11, Paul was concerned for the Galatians in that they were going back to the Old Law so as to be justified or saved. He was concerned that his labor for the gospel was in vain for the Galatians.

So the parable speaks of how his labor for the gospel (concerning the Corinthians) was now possibly in vain for them, too.

#1. The chief cornerstone foundation = Jesus Christ.
#2. Built as a part of the foundation on top of Christ = The apostles (including Paul, etc.) (Ephesians 2:20).
#3. The actual building materials of the tower or building = God's people (In this instance it would be the Corinthians).
#4. The Corinthians would be like: Wood, hay, and stubble in this particular point in time within their life while they abided in their sins of strife, and envying (Which are sins that will cause a person to not inherit the Kingdom of God). Wood, hay, and stubble are not materials that could survive a fire.
#5. Paul (the soul winner, and builder of the gospel and builder upon the foundation of Jesus Christ) would be saved through the fire (despite his work - i.e. the Corinthians being his work) would be burned up because of their sins. For Paul then says that if any man defiles the temple, God will destroy by having them cast into the Lake of Fire (Meaning: God will destroy the Corinthians if they do not repent of their sins). We are the temple of God. Our bodies are the temples of God. If we as believers defile our temples by sin, God will destroy us.

This is what I believe the parable is clearly saying.
 
Bible_Highlighter

Bible_Highlighter

Well-known member
#826
Nov 28, 2023
1,694
289
83
#826
wattie said:
You don't obey your parents because if you don't they will disown you. Your parents would never disown you if they are doing their job.
Click to expand...
If we take the parent and child relationship thing to the extreme then we can conclude that Jesus was not eternal because the Father was his parent. But we both know that the Trinity is true and Jesus is eternal.

You said:
You don't serve God just because if you don't He will send you to hell.
Click to expand...
Uh, no.

Jude 1:23
“And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.”

You said:
I serve God, because He loves me beyond my behaviour.. through His shed blood on the cross for my sins.. with His sealing of the Holy Spirit and guarantee of now and future eternal life.
Click to expand...
While we do need Romans 3:25, we also need to believe 1 John 1:7, too.
It says if we walk in the light as He is in the light the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin.
Walking in the light = Loving your brother according to the indirect wording in 1 John 2:9-11.
So you have to love your brother in order for the blood of Jesus to continue to cleanse you of all sin.
If not, you are not going to make it into God’s Kingdom. It’s just that simple.

You said:
OSAS doesn't mean.. 'now I will do whatever I want'.... this line has been addressed over and over and over and over by OSAS proponents that it is not what this means. You simply don't really understand the full affect of the atonement and full meaning of it. Grace compels the believer to be faithful! It doesn't compel them to sin more!
Click to expand...
Sure it does. There are just different degrees people justify wrong doing.
I have not run into any OSAS believer who treats sin as the Bible describes it.
The Bible teaches that you have to confess and forsake sin in order to have mercy.
But you believe you already have mercy despite all that.
Jesus warned about how certain sins can destroy your soul in the afterlife, but you don’t’ believe those warnings (See: Matthew 5:28-30, Matthew 6:15, Matthew 12:37, Matthew 25:31-46, Luke 9:62).

Therefore, if you don’t warn other believers of these sins and their real consequences, you are leading them straight to hell.

You said:
If you were given a gift with no strings attached.. you wouldn't be thankful? Come on now!
Click to expand...
But that’s not how it works according to the Bible. The are conditions attached to having the gift who is Jesus Christ.
 
NightTwister

NightTwister

Well-known member
#828
Jul 5, 2023
1,360
457
83
64
Colorado, USA
#828
Bible_Highlighter said:
After being born again, I believe a Christian has to continually ask the Father to send the Holy Spirit.
Click to expand...
And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever, -- John 14:16
And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. -- Acts 2:38
Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own, I Cor 6:19

No need to keep asking for what God has already provided.
 
Evmur

Evmur

Well-known member
#829
Feb 28, 2021
4,947
2,547
113
London
christianchat.com
#829
Evmur said:
You say all these fine things but you commit atrocities against the brothers, assassinating their characters.

love thy neighbour ... where is your love for the late Charles Stanley?

Evil speaking, judging, gossiping are among the sins God hates most.

Should in 17th century english grammar is the perfect of shall.
Click to expand...
umm I apologise to you, it was intended for somebody else. Sorry
 
Evmur

Evmur

Well-known member
#830
Feb 28, 2021
4,947
2,547
113
London
christianchat.com
#830
Bible_Highlighter said:
“….be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life." (Revelation 2:10).

We are also told:

“...We are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end.” (Hebrews 3:13-14).​
"Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life." (Jude 1:21).​


We are told to:

  1. Continue in the grace of God (Acts of the Apostles 13:43).
  2. Continue in the faith (Acts of the Apostles 14:22) (Colossians 1:23).
  3. Continue in his goodness, otherwise we can be cut off (just like the Jews were cut off) (Romans 11:21-22).

Revelation 22:14-15

14 "Blessed are they that do his commandments,
that they may have right to the tree of life, and may
enter in through the gates into the city.
15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers,
and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie."
Click to expand...
But these are all the things you DON'T do.

You have not held fast your confidence you had at the beginning .... then you had committed your whole being to God to be saved and you believed He would do it, what joy you had then, what satisfaction you felt. Now you worry that you may lose it.
This makes continuation in the grace of God impossible, you are ever interrupted by sin.
The faith we are to continue in is believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou SHALT be saved ... you say mebbe.
Yes we can be cut off from God's goodness, from His grace. This happens to many, they lose their first love, the joy they had. Their prayer life dries up, God seems remote. They's still saved, they are just no longer enjoying their salvation. It is due to bad teaching like yours.

God calls them back to Himself, He bids them to remember from whence they are fallen.

The free gift of God is eternal life to everyone who believes ... that is not a lie, hold on to it.
 
Evmur

Evmur

Well-known member
#831
Feb 28, 2021
4,947
2,547
113
London
christianchat.com
#831
Bible_Highlighter said:
Unfortunately, Charles Stanley has passed away. But Charles was a false teacher. He taught an extreme form of Hyper Grace.
While I do not agree with the author’s hatred of trusting in the KJB, over Modern counterfeit bibles, they do a good write up on exposing Charle’s Stanley’s false Hyper Grace teaching. You can check that out here:

https://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/charles-stanley.htm
Click to expand...
I don't need to check these things out ... Stanley's doctrine is bible, the Holy Spirit Himself bears witness. Nothing trumps the bible and the witness of the Holy Ghost.
 
Evmur

Evmur

Well-known member
#832
Feb 28, 2021
4,947
2,547
113
London
christianchat.com
#832
Bible_Highlighter said:
Hebrews 12:14 is not talking about believing on the finished work of the cross. The context of the very verse itself if you ever bothered to read it says that you are to also follow peace with all men as a part of the warning that we will not see the Lord. So you have to follow after holiness and follow peace with all men without which no man shall see the Lord. Following peace with all men is holy conduct or action on our part involving our Sanctification.



Not at all. I not only believe Romans 3:25 by trusting in the blood, but I also believe the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin if we also walk in the light as He is in the light as 1 John 1:7 says. Walking in the light = Loving your brother, which is expressed by the indirect wording in 1 John 2:9-11.



What promise was it just talking about?
Well, skip back to the previous chapter and reading at the end, we see this:

2 Corinthians 6:14-18

14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?​
15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?​
16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.​
17 “Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,​
18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty."​
​
So you have to be holy and separate by not being yoked with unbelievers and not involve yourself with idols and then the Lord will receive and be a Father unto you, etcetera.



To believe on the name of Jesus is a commandment (Please see 1 John 3:23).
But even promises we have come with conditions in the New Covenant.
Show me a promise in the New Covenant, and if it deals with our salvation, it is usually tied with a condition.
I can show this to you in the Bible if you like. But it probably does not appeal to you.
Therefore, the fine print of details of the truth of the Bible is not something you appear to accept because it is not your idea of good news.



We are told to follow Jesus’ example in Scripture and He quoted God’s Word many times. So there is no need to be appointed to do such a thing if one is a believer in God’s Word.



I have no idea what my future holds. You just assume that I am enslaved to some kind of sin based on looking at your own life or the lives around you. This is not faith. We walk by faith and not by sight. Try reading 1 Peter 4:1-2 sometimes and get back to me.



In order for John 5:24 to apply for you, you have to HEAR (obey) God’s Word. Jesus said that the Jews were not of God because they did not hear or obey God’s words. He said the lusts of their father they will do (Which was the devil). Remember, 1 John 3:8 says that he that commits sin is of the devil. Eternal life is a person named Jesus Christ, and it is not a super power, or a magical wish granted to you by a genie. Christ alone has immorality (1 Timothy 6:16). Jesus said He is the way, the truth, and the life. He that has the Son has life, and he that does not have the Son does not have life (1 John 5:12). So you need to abide in the Son in order to have eternal life because He is the source of eternal life. No Jesus, and there is no life. How can you have an assurance that you know the Lord Jesus? By keeping His commands (1 John 2:3). The person who says they know the Lord and they do not keep His commands is a liar and the truth is not in them (1 John 2:4). What truth is not in them? Jesus because Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life (John 14:6).



This is a false accusation. The gift of salvation is not earned. The gift is received free by believing in the gospel message in that we are to believe that Christ died for our sins, He was buried, and risen the third day (1 Corinthians 15:1-4). This also generally includes seeking forgiveness with the Lord Jesus Christ, as well (Romans 10:9) (Romans 10:13). But after we receive the gift who is Jesus Christ and His grace, we also know that grace teaches us to deny ungodliness and that we should live godly and righteously in this present world (See: Titus 2:11-12).



A believer can abide in spiritual death due to sin, and not be instantly killed by God physically. God is desiring this believer to repent (i.e., seek forgiveness with the LORD Jesus) with them forsaking that sin to be reconciled back to God. This is what 1 John 1:9, 1 John 1:7, and Proverbs 28:13 is all about (Which you do not understand).

The prodigal son was said to be “dead” and ”alive AGAIN” when he came home and sought forgiveness with his father. The prodigal son was dead spiritually while living it up with prostitutes. But when he came back home seeking forgiveness with his father, he was ”alive AGAIN” spiritually. If what you say is true, then the prodigal son could have continued to live it up with prostitutes and still be regarded as alive by his father. But that’s not how the parable plays out. James 5:19-20 teaches the same truth, and so you cannot play games with the parable and say it means something else entirely.



No. Galatians 5:24, 1 Peter 4:1-2, and 2 Corinthians 7:1 is the way of holiness but you have rejected such Scripture verses because you want the easy way out. Think. There are going to be many believers who will be shocked at the Judgment in that they will be cast out.
Have you not read Matthew 7:22-23? Have you not read Matthew 13:41-42? You should, and it should scare you. But I am afraid many today will refuse to see what I have shown in Scripture, and they will not learn of the danger they are truly in until they are at the Judgment. I do not desire you to be in that situation. So I am here to warn you by God’s Word to look at the whole counsel of His Word and not look at things from a wrong perspective that justifies turning God’s grace into a license for immorality or lasciviousness.
Click to expand...
to cut to the chase here

If you believe that Jesus bore your sins, was buried with your sins what are you still fussing with them for? Your old life is gone, crucified with Christ, dead and buried ... how can you still be living that life? It's just impossible.

Christians do, they sin as before, they live the same life they did, they THINK the same and that is the critical factor. This was so at Corinth, they were babes, walking in the flesh and not in the Spirit. Paul didn't damn anybody, he had some tough things to say to them but he addressed them always as brothers.

We are all in the scale bro. You may think you are more weighty, more worth than others but you have not achieved perfection. The tools we have at our disposal for the brethren are the same tools that Paul used they do not include the threat of damnation.
 
Evmur

Evmur

Well-known member
#833
Feb 28, 2021
4,947
2,547
113
London
christianchat.com
#833
mailmandan said:
Initial salvation means we are merely "initially" saved by grace through faith, not works, then after that, we are saved by works at the back door through the process of ongoing sanctification. I call that "type 2 works salvation" which culminates in back loading works into the gospel. (Romans 11:6)
Click to expand...
You mean they are saying God is like a 2nd hand car salesman :giggle:
 
Evmur

Evmur

Well-known member
#834
Feb 28, 2021
4,947
2,547
113
London
christianchat.com
#834
Bible_Highlighter said:
So then how do you explain the Parable of the Talents when it talks about how those who were faithful over a few things were told to enter the Joy of their Lord vs. the unprofitable servant who was cast into outer darkness where there was weeping and gnashing of teeth? See, unlike you, I cannot read this Parable and twist it beyond its most plain and child like reading. My soul is too important to play games with by such sloppy reading. There are many warnings about how sin can destroy our soul in the New Testament. But most like yourself are not looking at these verses. You must run past them really fast when you read your Bible. I mean, when Jesus warned about how looking at a woman in lust can cause us to be in danger of hellfire (Matthew 5:28-30), what do you do with that? Do you seek to explain it away? Paul says if any man does not agree with the words of Jesus Christ, and the doctrine according to godliness, he is proud, and he knows nothing (1 Timothy 6:3-4). James 4:6 says that God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble.

Also consider looking at Luke 10:25-28, as well.
Click to expand...
The parable of the Talents was preached to the Jews or to the Gentiles or the church?

... if you do not distinguish you will make many, many mistakes.
 
Evmur

Evmur

Well-known member
#835
Feb 28, 2021
4,947
2,547
113
London
christianchat.com
#835
Bible_Highlighter said:
Protestantism is the second largest branch of Christianity with close to 1 billion adherents. In Matthew 7, Jesus is not talking in context or view of atheists, agnostics, and pagan religionists. The FEW that Jesus is referring to is in context to other professing believers in Jesus Christ. So this means that the majority of Christiandom is not going to be of the FEW. Read the chapter for yourself and you will see that this is so.
Click to expand...
Nah folks that find the way to life [narrow as it is] are immediately sent down to the broad road to get folks off it.
 
2ndTimeIsTheCharm

2ndTimeIsTheCharm

Well-known member
#836
Feb 17, 2023
1,423
744
113
#836
Bible_Highlighter said:
Being converted and born again will help a person to see God’s words. But it does not end there. After being born again, I believe a Christian has to continually ask the Father to send the Holy Spirit to give us understanding in Jesus’ name (i.e., the Anointing as mentioned in 1 John 2:27).
Click to expand...
NightTwister said:
And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever, -- John 14:16
And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. -- Acts 2:38
Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own, I Cor 6:19

No need to keep asking for what God has already provided.
Click to expand...
@Bible_Highlighter - I agree with most everything you've written, but I agree with @NightTwister that you don't need to keep asking for the Holy Spirit to be sent.

The Holy Spirit will stay with the Christian for as long as the Christian wants. If anything, if a Christian falls away it's because they left the Holy Spirit (since God doesn't take away our free will), not the other way around.

By the way, great posts @Bible_Highlighter!

Here is also a good video about OSAS that lists pertaining verses and explains between Christians who struggle against sin and those who practice it:

Is Once Saved Always Saved Biblical?



🍒
 
mailmandan

mailmandan

Senior Member
#837
Apr 7, 2014
25,054
13,064
113
58
#837
Everlasting-Grace said:
lol

I am not here to make you happy.

If you do not like my explanation, thats too bad.. I showed you what it means in a way it makes the rest of the word agree
Click to expand...
In regard to the parable of the talents, the talents represent monetary value and are distributed according to ability (Matthew 25:15). The requirement is to invest in Christ. The first two servants deposited their money with the bankers (Matthew 25:27) but the third servant buried his money in the ground (Matthew 25:25). The third servant had been given a talent according to his ability and the opportunity to believe and bear fruit in accordance but chose to reject it.

Also, the fact that the latter man in this parable is called "wicked" and "slothful" and an "unprofitable servant" (Matthew 25:30) who is "cast out into outer darkness" indicates that he was not a true disciple of the master. The idea of this parable is that all true believers will produce fruit in varying degrees. All genuine believers are fruitful, but not all are equally fruitful (Matthew 13:23). Those who produce no results are not truly converted.

This man's characterization of the master maligns him as "reaping and gathering" what he had no right to claim as his own. This wicked, lazy servant does not represent a genuine believer as it's obvious that he had no true knowledge of the master. Two of these servants were children of God, but not the third. Children of God are not cast out into outer darkness. The fact that this man is called a "servant" does not necessarily mean that he was saved either.

The children of Israel (Oh Israel - Isaiah 43:1) were called the Lord’s servants, but they were not all saved. Isaiah 43:10 - "You are My witnesses, says the Lord," And My servant whom I have chosen, that you may know and believe Me, and understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, nor shall there be after Me.

Leviticus 25:55 - For the children of Israel are servants to Me; they are My servants whom I brought out of the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God. Yet God later destroyed those who did not believe. (Jude 1:5)

Nehemiah 1:6 - please let Your ear be attentive and Your eyes open, that You may hear the prayer of Your servant which I pray before You now, day and night, for the children of Israel Your servants, and confess the sins of the children of Israel which we have sinned against You. Both my father’s house and I have sinned.
 
selahsays

selahsays

Well-known member
#838
May 31, 2023
2,447
1,378
113
#838
IMG_6687.gif Merry Greetings!

Let’s simply begin here, fellow siblings:

Romans 8:28-30 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

I think sometimes we who love the Lord with all our hearts, at some point, begin to focus on “self” way too much. When this happens, we begin to fear and doubt our salvation; our minds try to take over what the Spirit has already revealed to us in the past. (Just my thoughts, mind you). We forget about the miraculous regeneration that transformed our soul when we gave our lives to Christ.

Sanctification is a life-long process. When sin at times gets in the way though, the Accuser tells us that we’re not good enough, that our faith is not real, etc. .…but all we really need to do at this point is tell Satan where to go, ask our Heavenly Father to forgive us, and He promises that He will, and then press on abounding in the work of the Lord.. It’s sooo important also to remember all of God’s faithful promises to us. He is our hope of Glory and He promises never to leave us nor forsake us.

In Jesus Christ, we have eternal life! Jesus came to redeem sinners, not the righteous. Remember, if you’ve been called, and you’ve answered that call, you are a child of God, a sheep in His flock. You belong to HIM.
IMG_6689.gif
 
Mem

Mem

Senior Member
#839
Sep 23, 2014
5,950
1,698
113
#839
Bible_Highlighter said:
Actually, the gospel is described for us in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4. The gospel is simply about believing and not doing. Just reread 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 and you will see it is all about a belief and not doing anything.

To be a doer of the Word is to obey the various instructions in God’s Word (i.e., the Bible). This is what we read about. For example: A man who bridleth not his tongue, their religion is in vain (James 1:26). Pure religion and undefiled is to visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction (James 1:27). Do not have respect of persons in favoring the rich brethren over any poor brethren (James 2:1-7, which is continued in the use of other word throughout the chapter). These are all things that you do.
Click to expand...
For whatever reason, the Lord knows, I happened upon this archived post and revisited it thinking must be new. And since you are counting all my sins, along with all of yours, I thought you might have missed this false witness you bore against me and would probably like to repent.
 
Jimbone

Jimbone

Senior Member
#840
Aug 22, 2014
2,727
833
113
44
#840
Bible_Highlighter said:
Narrow is the way that leads unto life and FEW be there that find it (Matthew 7:14).
Click to expand...
So that means God is, like I was arguing against "a powerless and confused God who just doesn't know, and sent His only Son to take the just punishment for our sins the way He did, just to roll the dice on us and save some so they can reject Him and besmirch His name." according to you?
I'm not sure what you mean by throwing that one scripture at my comment with nothing else.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.