by Grace and through faith

“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast.

( I could stop now and explain everything I think that verse means could write a whole book or I could share some more scripture about what that statement means in the bible )

For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭2:8-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that is salvation by gods grace in the gospel you find teachings of repentance , obedience to God , we learn about his return and our redemption and we learn what good is in his sight and we learn to actually do the things he’s taught us . Just listening to Jesus preach the gospel will teach us all those elements now listen to Paul the gospel is sent out to all people and so just after Jesus died and rose

“preach the gospel to every creature.

He that believeth and is baptized

shall be saved; “

Now paul some years after he’s made a true statement already “ your saved by grace “

“For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,


teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God our Saviour Jesus Christ;

who gave himself for us,that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.”
‭‭Titus‬ ‭2:11-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬


Through faith

“ So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“ go preach the gospel to all
People in the world whoever believes and is baptized shall be saved

whoever doesn’t believe shall be damned “

Gods grace that offers salvation to all men is the gospel that he preached and lived and fuflilled and then sent forth and said tell everyone and believers shall be saved ….

just because the New Testament teaches that we have to repent doesn’t mean it’s not grace paup says specifically Gods grace that saves and has appeared to all teaches us who believe “repentance and obedience “

“teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world”

If we were to just read a verse that says you’re saved by grace not works And never read what grace means biblically or what gods grace teaches and accomplished in us or tells us why Jesus died for us what was he doing ultimately when he laid down his life for us sinners who were condemned ?

who gave himself for us,that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

The reason Jesus and all of his apostles like Peter and Paul taught that we have to repent and do good is because that’s part of how we’re saved by grace through faith

consider letting the Bible explain what the verses in the Bible mean it always does in these modern times you can download a Bible app type in key words subjects like “ grace “ or salvation “ and you’ll find tens of even hundreds of verses explaining it all well .

The thing is it’s often not what we thought before we read it plainly and clearly then the challenge becomes “ ca. I believe what the word says even though I thought something else about God ? Or grace ? Or salvstion ? Essentially can I accept a gods word over my own thinking and logic ?

Some seem To see the Bible as just a book but what if it’s Gods only wrotten and witnessed and confirmed message to mankind on earth written over thousands of years and preserved for all .

and what if he promised it and he would remain the same forever so all could hear and be saved ?

maybe the knowledge and understanding that’s already written down in the holy Bible is all true and right and the idea is that we would hear it and take it as gods true word and believe and let it change what we used to think and perceive about God ? Maybe the idea of the Bible is we can all know the same and true God making the same true offer to all so we can hear and choose

You will not find "and do good" in Ephesians 2:8,9. So why are you still not clear about justification by grace through faith? In fact God EXCLUDES good works (doing good) from salvation BY GRACE through FAITH.

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

For by grace... Whose grace? God's grace
Through faith... Whose faith? The sinners
Not of works... Whose works? The sinners

Why does God exclude human works from justification? Because that would mean that the sinner somehow MERITED or EARNED his salvation. Which means that he could also boast about it.

All false religions teach that men can earn or merit their salvation by good works. They have no use for the shed blood of Christ, nor the fact that no matter how many good works you do, they cannot pay the penalty for your sins. WITHOUT THE SHEDDING OF BLOOD THERE IS NO REMISSION (OF SINS). Therefore the Lamb of God had to not only offer His body, soul, and spirit an offering for sin, He had to shed His own precious blood. Which is called "the blood of God". It is only when the soul is washed by the blood of the Lamb that there is forgiveness of sins and salvation by grace through faith.

Pilgrim, you make these lengthy posts, and then confuse everyone with exactly what you are trying to say. Good works are excluded by God.

What is JUSTIFICATION? Is it not the fact that God declares a guilty sinner as being not guilty? And is that not purely by the grace of God? But on what grounds can God justify the ungodly? The only grounds are the finished work of Christ for our redemption. Christ paid the full penalty for the sins of the whole world, and shed His blood for the remission of sins.

And at the same time God IMPUTES the righteousness of Christ -- which is the righteousness of God -- on the believer. He "clothes" the believer with "the robe" of righteousness. So God sees the believer as righteous in His sight, even though the child of God is imperfect.

But God does not leave it there. He tells the one who is saved by grace that now that he is saved, he must BE RIGHTEOUS AND HOLY. He must deny worldly lusts, and live soberly, righteously, and godly in this present world (Titus 2:12). This is where sanctification comes in.
So anyone who claims that the eternal security of the believer is a license to sin is simply ignorant about the truth.

If we were perfect after our true encounter with Jesus Yeshua, we would all be transfigured at that very instant and taken to be with our Lord.

Any who do not show their personal appreciation of all that has been done for us and does nothing in thanksgiving has not come to know Salvation, for we do show our utmost gratitude in realizing all that has been done for our salvation.

If we take the faith, a gift from God, and bury it in th e soil, it will be made filthy and worthless.. If you want tocall this judaizing or earning our salvation, continue in the darkness, but do not attmpt to bring the true praisers of Yahweh into it with.

What does this have to do with the topic? Are we, or are we not, saved by grace through faith PLUS NOTHING?

yOU SHOULD UNDERSTAND ALL OF A PERSON'S POSTING AND NOT SUBSTITUTE UNDERSTANDING WITH A SELECTION FROM THE POST TAKEN OUT OF CONTEXT..;

Nothing has been taken out of context. Indeed the context has been very closely followed to confirm that salvation (justification) is by grace through faith APART FROM WORKS.

Thank you does it matter if we say "ye are saved" vs "have been saved (the org). One translates "have been delivered be grace through trusting." "consider letting the Bible explain what the verses in the Bible mean". Just asking no fighting nor debating but seems you were doing all the explaining with some yelling which.. praise GOD.

So like in Acts 26 where he was preaching to the lost and after they turn to God (repenting) as one said Christians must also turn to God. If they truly repent, they will commit their life to God and cultivate a trusting relationship with Him. Their repentance, if it is genuine, will be shown by works or deeds worthy of repentance. The Greek verb here also indicates this must be ongoing. Believers must keep on doing works or deeds worth of the changed minds and attitudes they profess.

I have been saved not something I am working on keeping. Something was made new that was dead a simple work can not change that. For me the good works or deeds is a by product so to speak a fruit that is just there has to be. That will effect what rewards I get

You were responding to Nehemiah6 and he may yet answer you but I had to jump in here because your questions, if true concerns and not just talking points, seemed interesting.

You stated: "My question is: what if he doesn't live righteous & holy? What if he doesn't deny worldly lusts & all these other things?"

Immediately, what comes to mind is this: "What makes you think, therefore, in this example, that this person IS a truly saved believer? If he doesn't do these things and lives a life of sin - then what is he doing, to make one think he is saved at all? True believers can sin and as long as they are in the "flesh" they will sin. For Scripture says: Gal_5:17 For the flesh is lusting against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. Since believers will sin, we must seek God's forgiveness everyday in prayer. NOT to maintain our Salvation but to be washed clean daily, so our fellowship with God is not hampered. If a believer says he does not sin - then he is deceived and the Truth is not in him. (1 John 1:8)

You then stated: "Does God then declare he wasn't saved to begin with?"

I'm not sure I follow this question... The only time God will declare anything in Judgement, will be at the end. However, Scripture does say these two things: Mat 7:22, 23 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Further, if one is not written in the "Book of Life", (Which was written before the foundation of the world according to [Rev. 13:8 and 17:8]), then that one will be cast out. Rev_20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Next you stated: "What does God do to those who don't? Nothing? leaves them saved?"

God's merciful and compassionate Salvation is never in question for the believer. Don't get me wrong. the believer may question their salvation but if they have been truly saved.. then from God's perspective, they can not be lost. Php_1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

What does God do to those who have fallen into heinous sin and are not repenting? Sins such as mentioned in: Eph. 5:3 or 1Corinthians may cause God to seriously discipline them - Rev_3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent. He may give the unrepentant sinner over to the devil or illness for the destruction of the flesh. Ex. Punishment for adultery. 1Co_5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus Christ. Punishment for inappropriate actions within the Lord's Supper observance: 1Cor 11:30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. For it is better to be killed in the flesh, rather than bring shame upon God's name or the cause of Christ.

I hope this answers your question.

1. If this is a HABITUAL LIFESTYLE it would mean that this person is not really saved. Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new (2 Cor 5:17). Here is where baptism and its significance comes in. See Romans 6. Believers are to reckon themselves dead to sinning, and alive unto God and righteousness.

2. At the same time God expects us to examine ourselves daily, acknowledge our sins to ourselves, confess them to God, and forsake them. See the first epistle of John.

3. God's wayward children will be chastised, but will not lose their salvation (which is a FREE GIFT). See Hebrews 12. Indeed chastisement is proof that they are in fact children of God.

4. All Christians must partake of the Lord's Supper, and particularly before doing it, they must examine themselves, or there will be serious consequences. See 1 Cor 11. Sickness, weakness, and even premature death can take place.

5. When there was a case of fornication n Corinth, Paul delivered the sinning Christian to Satan to attack the body ("the destruction of the flesh" could mean anything) but then he went on to say "that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus". So that person's salvation was not in jeopardy.

So God does not ignore the sins of the saints, But neither do they lose their salvation.

When you are able to demonstrate that my post says otherwise,, then you may post your criticism, but my post accents gratitude for salvation and demonstrating that gratitude, and you probably know this already.

It seems you read and understand rote in this instance. Allow the Holy Spirit to enter into you understanding God bless and keep you close..

In Ephesians 2:8-10, it denies that our salvation is the earned as the result of our works, but that is not at all the same as saying that God excludes works from salvation, especially because verse 10 says that we are new creations in Christ to do good works. Our salvation is from sin (Matthew 1:21) and sin is the transgression of God's law (1 John 3:4), so while we do not earn our salvation as the result of our obedience to it, living in obedience to it through faith in Jesus is nevertheless intrinsically the content of the gift of him saving us from not living in obedience to it. In Titus 2:11-13, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, so we are not required to have first done those works in order to earn our salvation as the result and we are not required to do those works as the result of having first been saved, but rather God graciously teaching us to do those works is itself the content of His gift of saving us from not doing those works. In Psalms 119:29-30, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His law, and he chose the way of faith by setting it before him, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith.

In Romans 2:13, Paul said that only doers of the law will be justified, so God did not exclude works from justification, but rather He required us to choose to be doers of them, which has nothing to do with earning our justification as the result of our works. In Titus 2:14, Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people who are zealous for doing good works, so becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to God's law is the way to believe in what Jesus accomplished through the cross, while it is those who return to the lawlessness that Jesus gave himself to redeem us from who have no use for his shed blood. Doing good works has nothing to do with trying to pay for the penalty for our sin.

Thank you, even more, I thank your Teacher.

Gift~~salvation

Rewards/crowns/reign/inheritance~~works/fruits/abiding/following.

Simple as that. People are losing out on all the things God has elected us for if they are trying to add to the gift.

Don't make it onerous, don't make it hard, don't be piling duties and donkey work upon folks ... get them savedsaved. Then they will be as tender lambs in the flock and we can bring them on slowly as they are able.

It's God's job to appoint duties and tasks and He furnishes the gifts and enablement.

But we have to be hyper strict about this one simple truth. By grace were ye saved through faith and [faith] not your own.

I am confused why someone would open up a thread about being saved by grace but through faith, then spend paragraph after paragraph talking about works.

Eph 2: 8-9 is not difficult. if we just set aside our preconceptions of what we think the word says and just read it

Paul says

8 For by grace you have been saved

Saved here means to be rescued, to be delivered, to be made safe

It is in the perfect tense. which means it is a completed action.

What is it that saved us? Grace saved us, Nothing else. Grace is a term which means unmerited favor. or a gift. It can not be earned, because you did a good deed, and it is not a reward for that deed. It is a gift. Paid for by someone else.

through faith,

Here is the means by which this salvation is applied to us, it is through faith in which we recieve the grace gift of God. Because we TRUST God. we TRUST the gospel. and we TRUST the promise God is making

and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

Here he reiterates what he said before.

1. It is not of ourselves. We did not save ourselves.

2. It is the gift of God. Bought and paid in full. by him, for us

3. He re-iterates again, It is NOT OF WORKS (think titus 3. not by works of righteousness which we have done but by his mercy he saved us) lest anyone should boast. (To proudly vaunt oneself. to take credit for doing the work. to take credit away from God)

How anyone could read Paul say we have been saved, a completed action. by God mercy and grace, which was a gift. And not by anything we did. and then say we have to do a bunch of works to be saved. is beyond reasoning

Grace is a gift and gifts can't be earned, so grace is incompatible with works done for the purpose of earning a wage (Romans 11:6), however, works can be done for any number of purposes that are compatible with gifts, which is also why there are many verses that connect grace and works. For example, in Psalms 119:29-30, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His law, and he chose the way of faith by setting it before him, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith. In Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to walk in His way that he and Israel might know Him, in 1 Kings 2:1-3, God taught how to walk in His way through His law, and in John 17:3, eternal life is knowing God and Jesus, which again is salvation by grace through faith.

Our salvation is from sin (Matthew 1:21) and sin is the transgression of God's law (1 John 3:4), so while we are no required to have first obeyed God's law in order to earn it as a wage, living in obedience to it through faith in Jesus is nevertheless intrinsically the content of the gift of him saving us from not living in obedience to it. For example, honoring our parents is intrinsically part of the gift of Jesus saving us from not honoring our parents. In Ephesians 2:8-10, we are new creations in Christ to do good works, so while Paul denied that we can earn our salvation as the result of our works lest anyone should boast, doing good works is nevertheless intrinsically the content of the gift of being saved from not doing good works. In Titus 2:11-13, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, so we are not required to have done those works first in order to become saved as the result and we are not required to do those works as the result of having first been saved, but rather God graciously teaching us to do those works is itself the content of His gift of saving us from not doing those works.

The content of a gift can itself be the experience of doing works, such as giving someone the opportunity to drive a Ferrari for an hour, where the gift requires them to do the work of driving it in order to have that experience, but where doing that work has nothing to do with trying to earn the gift of the opportunity to drive it as a wage. Likewise, the content of God's gift of eternal life is the experience of knowing Him and Jesus and God's law is the gift His instructions for how to have that experience, not for how to earn it as a wage.

through faith,

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In Proverbs 3:5-7, we have a choice between leaning on our own understanding of right and wrong by doing what is right in our own eyes or trusting in God with all of our heart to correctly divide between right and wrong through obeying what He has instructed in all of our ways and He will make our way straight. God is trustworthy, therefore His instructions are also trustworthy (Psalms 19:7), so the way to trust God is by obediently trusting in His instructions and it is contradictory to think that we should trust in God for salvation, but not in what He has instructed.

Likewise, in Matthew 4:15-23, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, which was a light to the Gentiles, and God's law was how his audience knew what sin is, so repenting from our disobedience to it is the way to trust the Gospel.

In Genesis 18:19, God knew Abraham that he would teach his children and those of his household to walk in His way by doing righteousness and justice that the Lord may bring to him all that He has promised. In Genesis 26:4-5, God will multiply Abraham's children as the stars in the heaven, to His children He will give all of these lands, and through His children all of the nations of the earth will be blessed because Abraham heard God's voice and guarded His charge, His commandments, His statutes, and His laws. In Deuteronomy 30:16, if the children of Abraham will love God with all of their heart by walking in His way in obedience to His commandments, statutes, and laws, then they will live and multiply and God will bless them in the land that they go to possess. So the promise was made to Abraham and brought about because he walked in God's way in obedience to His law, he taught his children and those of his household to do that, and because they did that. So obedience to God's law is the way to trust Him, to trust the Gospel, and to trust in the promise that He is making.

In Titus 2:11-13, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, so it is not the case that we need to get saved first and then we will do those works, but that God graciously teaching us to do those works is the content of His gift of saving us from not doing those works.

heresy