The Security Of The Believer

But you have moved the goal posts on sin. You believe you have to be practicing sin in order to indicate that you were never born again to begin with (Which is far worse) because it will make you doubt salvation that you were once saved God’s grace in the past (if you did not have the false OSAS view on sin to begin with). Remember, it only took one sin to lead to the fall of mankind. It took only one kind of sin to condemn Ananias and Sapphira each. Remember, the devil’s lie in the Garden to Eve. He was trying to convince her to believe that she could break God’s command and yet not die. This same lie is being pushed today. So the idea here is spiritual death. You don’t believe that is possible. There is no kind of danger for you. But the Scriptures say to work out your salvation with fear and trembling. I mean, stop and think a moment. Most in the OSAS crowd do not believe 1 John 1:9 is salvific. They do not believe they have to confess of sin to be forgiven of sin but they believe it is only dealing with a break in fellowship with the Lord and not a loss of forgiveness (i.e., a loss of salvation). Yet, there is aboslutely no actual teaching for this. It’s also contradictory. If you believe you are forgiven of future sin like most OSAS believers, then there is NO reason to confess of sin EVER. Your sins should be gone. Now, some in your camp have tried to make 1 John 1:9 as referring to when we are Initially Saved, but that simply does not fit the context (1 John 2:1). Another problem in your belief is that you don’t believe the Parable of the Prodigal Son or James 5:19-20, which clearly teaches conditional salvation. In the Parable of the Prodigal Son, when the prodigal son came home after living it up with prostitutes, and he sought forgiveness with his father, his father said that he was “dead” and he is “alive AGAIN.” Obviously the prodigal son did not die physically. So this parable is talking in spiritual terms. The prodigal son died spiritually while living in sin with the prostitutes, and he became alive AGAIN when he came back home to his father seeking forgiveness with him. The parallel for us is that Jesus is our Everlasting Father who we need to seek forgiveness with if we ever fall into a life of sin. But you don’t believe this parable. There is no real danger of sin in your view. James 5:19-20 teaches the same truth.

While we are condemned if we practice sin, it’s not just practicing sin that will indicate condemnation for a believer.

#1. Numbers 35:16-18 says it only takes one act of murder to be a murderer, and Leviticus 20:10 says it only takes one act of adultery to be an adulterer.

#2. Jesus Himself regarded just looking at a woman once as an act of adultery (Matthew 5:28).

#3. John says, "No murderer has eternal life abiding in them." (1 John 3:15).

#4. Proverbs 6:32 says, "Whosoever commits adultery with a woman lacks understanding: he that does it destroys his own soul."

#5. Jesus Himself says that just looking at a woman in lust (Which is adultery) is potential for a person to be cast bodily in hell fire (See Matthew 5:28-30).

That really does not address the verses I posted. Please go back and look at them more carefully please.

Making no comments without any biblical substance to back them up does help to prove your position. The ball is in your court. Deal with the verses that I posted that refutes the false belief of OSAS.

Let’s do it this once again comparing what you said against what the scripture said. What really you are doing is omitting the very important phrase “of the Spirit”. This might help you, I‘ll highlight them to you using the word strikethrough.
You said:
“…sow to the Holy Spirit you will reap life everlasting.”
sows to the Spirit shall reap life everlasting (salvation).
Here really is what you did to the scripture of truth.
“For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.“ (Galatians 6:8-9).

Do you see the difference between the scripture of truth and the opinion of men?
Now going to Galatians 5: 19-21
I said in my earlier post that the Spirit and flesh war against each other. They were contrary to each other (v.17). Walking in the Spirit is meant not to fulfill the lust of the flesh which was listed in verses 19-21. The highlight of Paul’s letter to the Galatian believers is that at one time they have participated in these acts in their past lives and such deeds shall not inherit the kingdom of God. However, Paul is about the past lives when they were not yet “In Christ” He warned these believers not to do such thing, the reason was not to seek vain glory but not to lose their salvation. The question is, are saved capable of doing this? The Bible says it is still possible, yet Paul had encouraged not to participate in them for it would not bring glory to Christ and they meant a loss of rewards. Then who are they who will not “inherit the kingdom of God”? They are those who were not yet saved and are involved in it.
Of course, I am against Antinomianism as Paul is against it. Simply, a believer is told to “walk in the Spirit” (vv. 16 & 25) that is to be “led of the Spirit” (v. 18), by displaying the “fruit of the Spirit”. (v.22-23) and not to fulfill the lust of the flesh.

I didn't change anything. This is what has been said from the beginning. Hence, you don't listen.
You should doubt your salocation if you are sinning and there is no conviction over your sin...you aren't saved. And you are the one giving the false understanding of eternal security. I told you the doctrine and you continue to change it to mean something else.
While it is true that by one man's sin we became sinners, it is also by one man's obedience that many are made righteous. It's not about individual sin, but sin itself.
I do believe the 3 part parable in Luke 15. It is 1 parable with 3 parts. It highlights the work of the Trinity in salvation...Shepherd represents the work of Jesus, the enlightening and cleansing to find the coin represents the work of the Spirit, and after that the father welcoming the son in celebration represents the work of the Father drawing us to Himself through the circumstances of life.
Ephesians 2:8-9 says we are saved by grace through faith...not of works. Your version of conditional salvation reads...we are saved by merit through endeavor...only by works.

People who think their salvation is up to them think, "Look at me." People know understand that their salvation is from God alone think, "Why me?"

Again, these are referring to ongoing unrepented sin. Will David be in heaven? Moses? Paul? All murderers. All repented and were forgiven.

Not so. There are many believers like myself that believe it is a co-OPERATION or a walk with the Lord (Amos 3:3).
Many of us believe that the Lord does the good work in the believer. But God is simply not going to force you to do good against your own will. I mean, why would He warn Christians against sin? In your belief, it makes no sense. Loss of eternal rewards I never seen? That’s a threat? Trouble on this planet? Believers who live righteously have troubles. The only thing that truly will make a believer fear is if they can lose their salvation. That is why the Bible says to work out your salvation with fear and trembling in Philippians 2:12, but you don’t believe that verse.

The problem is that you will not find a Bible verse that actually teaches your belief. There is nowhere in the Bible that teaches that all you have to do is believe on the finished work of the cross to be saved. That is a saying that is not even in the Bible. If that was the case, then why on Earth would Jesus warn us about how looking upon a woman in lust can cause our bodies to be cast into hellfire? (Matthew 5:28-30). Why would the apostle Paul warn us to provide for our own and if we don’t, we are worse than an unbeliever? (1 Timothy 5:8). Why would the Bible’s last chapter say the following?


No such warnings should exist like this if things are as you say. There is no talk in the Bible that says the crazy things by OSAS believers., “Oh brothers, please do not sin. While you will not lose your eternal salvation, you will lose eternal rewards.” No such nonsense is ever said of the kind in the Bible. You cannot interpret 1 Corinthians 3 to talking about how sin is a loss of rewards. Sin is not built upon the foundation of Jesus Christ. Sin is not a part of any command or service to our Lord. Folks are trying to cram in OSAS teaching into the Bible that teaches conditional salvation in TONS of places.

I tell you what. Please write down every saying that comes into your head about what you believe OSAS teaches that is not directly from a Bible verse but it is more of a saying that comes from your own mind. Also write down every saying that you heard by others that other OSAS believers teach that is not referring to a specific verse. Now, I would like for you to look at this list and see if it actually exists in the Bible. You won’t find it. That’s the problem.

See, this is what I was talking about from my last post. There are many sayings made by OSAS believers that are not found in the Bible. There is no Bible verse that says, ”salvation is from God alone”; Take for example, Peter told the crowd of Jews, “Save yourselves from this untoward generation.” Yes, God plays a big part in our salvation. We cannot come to God without Him opening our heart, without His drawing, without His conviction, and without the illumination of His Word to us. We also cannot do any good work in our Sanctification of living holy by God’s Spirit without the Spirit. It makes no sense. But God is also not going to force us into the Kingdom, either. We are told to work out our salvation with fear and trembling in Philippians 2:12.

Working out your own salvation verse context is not about eternal salvation..but the right response to having been given it.

Two kinds of salvation..one is eternal deliverance, the other is being delivered daily from sin. One is not dependent on the other.

You said, @Bible_Highlighter : …. the cat’s out of the bag. So you believe they are not punished in being cast into outer darkness or fire (i.e., the Lake of Fire) for their sin of being unfruitful for the Lord as the Bible describes it. They get a second chance? So this means one can sin and be saved. That is what you are teaching and backing if I am understanding you correctly here. But the Scriptures say it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the Judgment (Hebrews 9:27).
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Selahsays: You must not understand Romans 8:29-34, brother. 😞
And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth. Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

- Romans 8:28-34 (KJV)

But it says, “salvation.” That’s the problem. You’re not believing the Bible. You need a clear indication that it is not talking about eternal salvation. For instance: “Bob saved Rick from off the cliff.” This sentence would be a clear example of an event that is not talking about eternal life. When the Bible talks about salvation, it is in reference to eternal life unless there is a clear context of it saying otherwise. But there isn’t one. It is HIGHLY SUSPICIOUS that the very verse that attacks your belief is undone by changing a word. Was this your motivation? Did you say to yourself, “Hey, I don’t like this verse, I am going to try and change it because it does not fit with OSAS.” I have also heard other sad excuses of not believing this verse before. Somebody said that “fear” does not mean “fear” in this verse. Then why all the trembling? So this is why we cannot take your belief seriously. You just change the meaning words in a verse when you don’t like what it says. The burden of proof is on you to give context to show that this word “salvation” is not in reference to eternal life.

You need to prove that by the context. You also need to establish this truth elsewhere in the Bible.
In other words, there needs to be a clear example of salvation from sin and it is clearly eliminating the possibility of eternal salvation.
Good luck in your hunt. I have my doubts you will find such a verse or passage.

You don't get to change the context either. You always leave out verse 13.
Verse 12 isn't teaching that we are to produce salvation. Rather, it is teaching that in light of the fact that we are saved and the Spirit is working in us, we need to respond to the activity of God. That is what walking in the Spirit is all about.

@Bible_Highlighter ….Okay, so let’s start over and go from there.

John 15:6 If a man abide not in Me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
So this is saying that if someone fails to find salvation through the precious blood of Christ shed on the Cross, that person will resemble the withered vine that receives pruning from the Father. After the Millennium, all of this "dead wood" will be thrown into the Lake of Fire at the Great White Throne Judgment.

Revelation 20:15; "And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."

Your passage asserts from the outset that all things work together for good for those who LOVE GOD, underscoring that this promise exclusively applies to those who genuinely love God. It does not extend to those who do not harbor love for Him. According to the Bible, the expression of love for God involves keeping His commandments, as stated by Jesus (who is identified as God): "if you love me, keep my commandments" (John 14:15). Additionally, 1 John 5:3 affirms, "For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous."

It is observed that adherents of the Once Saved, Always Saved (OSAS) belief system do not emphasize the necessity of obeying God's commands or the real danger of sin as mentioned by Jesus (See: Matthew 5:28-30, Matthew 6:15, Matthew 12:37, Matthew 25:31-46, and Luke 9:62) (Also see 1 Timothy 6:3-4). Their emphasis often lies in faith in Jesus for salvation, while not dealing with the real realities of sin. They only say that practicing sin is where we are in trouble eternally with God. But see my recent post here in how that this is not the only way to be danger with one’s right standing with the Lord.

Furthermore, the passage directs believers to be conformed to the image of God's Son. A justification for the idea that one can sin and still be saved contradicts the concept of having the mind of Christ (see 1 Corinthians 2:16). Conforming to the image of the Son of God, Jesus Christ, is incompatible with justifying sin, as Jesus never endorsed or justified sinful behavior.

The passage also mentions the justification of the believer. While many Christians such as myself will turn to Romans 5:1 to define the word “justified” (Which is a truth), it is crucial to also consider the truth of James 2:24, which states, "Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." This challenges the common Protestant notion of justification by faith alone (Note: Please keep in mind I am not Catholic and neither am I Orthodox. I just believe the Bible as my final Word of authority).

Moreover, the passage asserts, "Who can lay a charge against God’s elect?" Colossians 3:12-13 elaborates on the conduct expected of the elect, emphasizing the call to be holy. The passage suggests that being like the elect entails displaying qualities such as mercy, kindness, humility, meekness, and longsuffering. The overarching theme is that holiness in conduct aligns with the description of the Elect, who are not characterized by the belief that one can sin and still be saved.

It is illogical to assert that Philippians 2:12 is referring to salvation in regards to putting away sin only and not eternal life.

First, while Philippians 2:13 does say that it is God who works in us to do of His good will, and pleasure, it is not saying that this truth is tied to salvation.

Second, Philippians 2:12 says we are to work out our salvation with fear and trembling. This is clearly something that can cause us to fear. So what does one have to fear if they are not living holy? This life is temporary. Believers who live righteously can go through really tough times. So tough times here on this Earth for a sinning believer compares to that how? It really doesn’t. But if we are talking about our eternal fate, now you have something to truly tremble at and to be afraid over. Who wants to face punishment from God in the afterlife? That’s truly fear, and trembling and not the temporary hardships of this life.

Consider, Matthew 13:41-42 says that Christ will send forth His angels and they will gather out of HIS Kingdom all who do iniquity and they will be cast into the furnace of fire (i.e., the Lake of Fire). This does not sound like doing sin or iniquity will cause a loss of rewards. It sounds like believers who justify sin being cast out of Christ’s Kingdom before He has His Kingdom back to God the Father. It sounds clear to me like these sinning Christians who are headed to an ill fate in the afterlife. In fact, Matthew 13:41-42 aligns with Jesus’ words in John 8.

Jesus says,
“Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. And the servant abideth not in the house for ever:…“
(John 8:34-35).

The servant of sin (the sinning believer) will not remain or abide in the house of Christ forever. This is exactly what we see in Matthew 13:41-42. Christ’s angels will remove any who do iniquity in HIS Kingdom and they will be cast into the furnace of fire. Hmmm, sort of like the one branch who did not produce fruit and was cast into the fire (John 15:6).

Of course it's evidence of salvation. Who has the Holy Spirit except those who are saved. And verse 12 says work it out...not produce it. You cannot work something out if you don't possess it.
Salvation is of God. You rob God of glory by ascribing His work to yourself. God does not share His glory with another.

This is very fanciful and imaginative but it has no substance or basis in the Word of God. The ”fruit“ in John 15 is a reference to works.

How do we know?

Luke 3:8-11

Verse 8 - John the Baptist says to others to bring forth fruits worthy of repentance.
Verse 10 - The people respond by saying, “What shall we DO then?
Verse 11 - John the Baptist lists some works for them to do, like giving a coat to another who has none, and giving meat (food) to those who do not have any.

Notice the similarity in verse 9 - It talks about how an axe will cut down the tree that does not bring forth fruit and it will be cast into the fire. This is similar to the branch that will be thrown into the fire because it bears not fruit in John 15.

Plus, if that is not enough.

Matthew 4:8 says,
”Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:”

Acts 26:20 says,
”…they should repent and
turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.”

Notice, it says in one verse that they are to bring forth….


Meet means “worthy” or “befitting.”
So one needs to do works or fruit worthy or befitting of repentance.
This is what Jesus is talking about in John 15.
If we do not works or have no fruit, we will be cast forth as a branch into the fire.

Jesus makes other kinds of warnings in light of being fruitful or doing works.
Consider the Parable of the Talents.
It teaches that those who were faithful over a few things were told to enter the joy their Lord.
But the unprofitable servant was cast into outer darkness where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth (See: Matthew 25:14-30).

@Bible_Highlighter says “It is observed that adherents of the Once Saved, Always Saved (OSAS) belief system do not emphasize the necessity of obeying God's commands or the real danger of sin as mentioned by Jesus (See: Matthew 5:28-30, Matthew 6:15, Matthew 12:37, Matthew 25:31-46, and Luke 9:62) (Also see 1 Timothy 6:3-4). Their emphasis often lies in faith in Jesus for salvation, while not dealing with the real realities of sin. They only say that practicing sin is where we are in trouble eternally with God. But see my recent post here in how that this is not the only way to be danger with one’s right standing with the Lord.”

selahsays: If a person who says that he is a Christian does “not emphasize the necessity of obeying God's commands or the real danger of sin as mentioned by Jesus,” that person is a liar and has not been saved. A true Christian who loves God has been made a new creation. I think you know all this.