The Security Of The Believer

There are many biblical problems with the Catholic Church and the Charismatic movement.
I am strongly against the Catholic church, Charismatic churches, and the Pentecostal church.



Yes, I agree their hearts are not right with God. But why? Is it because they believe you need to have works as a part of salvation?
Well, not exactly. The real problem is that they came up with man made traditions and they do not accept everything that the Bible says and they justify certain sins because they are pleasurable to them. The same is the case in Protestantism (Note: Please keep in mind the Bible is my final Word of authority here). Okay. I have a challenge for you. if you were ever to just take a step back, and think objectively about this and look at the Protestant church as if you were an outside observer or a detective, you may see things that are hard to notice while having a mindset that is on the inside. Write down all the sayings you hear from OSAS Protestant teachers. Then compare their words to the words we see in the Bible. What you will find is that their words are not exactly to be found in the Bible. You will hear things like, “We are saved solely by believing on the finished work of the cross!” You will hear others say things like, “God alone saves.” Others will say, “sin is missing the mark.” Others will say that for us believers, “repent means a change of mind.” The list of unbiblical sayings goes on and on. At the end of the day, you will have to decide to be objective to what God’s Word says over what man’s words say. That is what this is really about. If you were paying attention, many in this thread who are for OSAS have been doing back flip twists through hoops of fire to try and change what the Bible plainly says when they are confronted with a verse that refutes their belief system.



Well, the Bible does teach this truth, but it is not the sole truth on the matter.
We do see the woman who was a sinner (past tense) who kissed Jesus feet love much because she was forgiven much (Luke 7:36-50).
We even see the apostle Paul say that he labored more than his brethren, but it was not himself, but it was the grace of God within him (1 Corinthians 15:10). Paul no doubt was moved greatly by God’s grace in that he was forgiven of all the horrible things he did towards believers before he was converted. So no doubt. God’s grace can change and affect us beyond our imagining and it is key to being fruitful. But we are warned. 2 Peter 1:9 says, “But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.”

But we have also realize that there are things God tells us to do, as well.
It’s not always automatic.
How so?

We are told:


We are told to:

1. Continue in the grace of God (Acts of the Apostles 13:43).
2. Continue in the faith (Acts of the Apostles 14:22) (Colossians 1:23).
3. Continue in his goodness, otherwise we can be cut off (just like the Jews were cut off) (Romans 11:21-22).

I just seen this. Honestly. We agree on this truth in Scripture. But that is not the final word on the matter.
We have to look at the whole counsel of God’s Word on the matter.



I 100% agree with Luke 18:9-14. It is a poignant and powerful parable on warning us believers of the dangers of self righteousness and denying God’s grace or allowing His grace to shine.

There are some believers out there who would fit this description. For example: Adam at “Abide in the Word YouTube Channel“ would fit the description of this belief if I am understanding his belief correctly (From the few videos I have seen from him). if I am correct on understanding his belief, it appears like he does not believe like I do in the fact that we are initially saved by God’s grace through faith without works. So we are saved by a belief alone, but is only when we are initially saved. God’s grace (and not works) is also foundational to our salvation because if we slip up into a sin on rare occasion, we do not go out to do a good work to absolve that sin. But we can confess of our sins to the Lord Jesus Christ to be forgiven of sin according to 1 John 1:9, and 1 John 2:1. Let us boldly come to the throne of grace indeed. But the Pharisee made it all about Works and no grace whatsoever. He thought he was better than the one who was saved by God’s grace. But keep in mind this grace has to align with the grace in Titus 2:11-12, and not the false version of grace as shown in Jude 1:4.

The Pharisee also needed to learn the lesson that he is nothing and it was God who ultimately does the good work in Him and that without God He could do nothing. All praise should go to the Lord for any good done in his life. God is the One who makes us truly stand or fall. It is not solely our strength and power, but it is the Lord’s strength and power to do what is good and right.

But nowhere is this parable a defense for OSAS which leads men to think they can sin and still be saved. Yes, men can be in sin. When we first came to the Lord, our old life was one of sin. Yes, believers can stumble into sin on rare occasion, but they can go to God’s grace By confessing their sins and forsaking them and not say, I am saved even if I don’t confess or forsake these sins. I am already saved despite my being in sin. That’s not what the Parable is teaching. We see the Tax Collector seeking forgiveness of his sin with the Lord and not justifying that sin.

As for works issue:

Well, all I can do is encourage you to be a detective and look again at the verses I posted to you on how works do play a part in our salvation after we are saved by God’s grace. The key is not to fight with what they say trying to explain them away. We should believe and live by every word of God. Read the chapters for the verses I posted. Read it in context. But don’t read it with a preconceived belief with Protestantism talking in your ear. Be free from the voices of others. Just believe what Scripture says. Ask God to reveal the truth of the Scriptures to you by the Holy Spirit as you read the verses I have posted. If you follow that path, I am confident you will come to the same conclusion as me. if not, I believe all things will be revealed at the Judgment, and you will see the truth then.

One more time. Every Christian will do good works. Why? Because they are saved.

Hold on..not every Christian will be continuously faithful though. It's not only faithful believers in heaven. There are believers whose works gets burned up because they weren't continuously faithful who still go to heaven.

@Bible_Highlighter says “This is very fanciful and imaginative but it has no substance or basis in the Word of God. The ”fruit“ in John 15 is a reference to works.”

selahsays: A true Christian will always produce fruit.

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
- Ephesians 2:8-10 (KJV)

But what happened in Matthew 722-23? Sure, they did wonderful works in Christ’s name, but Jesus told them to depart from Him because they worked iniquity. .

But what happened in Matthew 722-23? Sure, they did wonderful works in Christ’s name, but Jesus told them to depart from Him because they worked iniquity. So while we do need good works (John 15:6) (Matthew 25:14-30), it is not all good works, either. We also have to have love, as well. Without love in our actions it profits us nothing (See: 1 Corinthians 13). But before all of this, we first need God’s grace through faith (Which is a process of salvation without works). It is when we believe the gospel message in that Christ died for our sins, He was buried, and risen the third day. This is the gospel of our salvation. In short, we have to follow all our instructions in the Bible.

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

- Matthew 7:21-23 (KJV)

This is a strong warning to those who call themselves Christians but are only pretending. They do not do the will of God. They teach another gospel than the true Gospel of Jesus Christ. They teach traditions and doctrines that are not in the Scripture. You must do the will of God.

Does the Bible say that their works will be burned up? This is one of those sayings again that is merely invented.

Perhaps this passage has a bearing:

1 Corinthians 3: 11 For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13 their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. 14 If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. 15 If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames.

Again highlighting that salvation is not dependent on human works. We will be rewarded for what we have done for the Lord, but salvation itself is a gift, not of works so that no man can boast. God Bless You

Yes, I agree their hearts are not right with God. But why? Is it because they believe you need to have works as a part of salvation?

Okay. I have a challenge for you. if you were ever to just take a step back, and think objectively about this and look at the Protestant church as if you were an outside observer or a detective, you may see things that are hard to notice while having a mindset that is on the inside. Write down all the sayings you hear from OSAS Protestant teachers. Then compare their words to the words we see in the Bible.

What you will find is that their words are not exactly to be found in the Bible. You will hear things like, “We are saved solely by believing on the finished work of the cross!”

We do see the woman who was a sinner (past tense) who kissed Jesus feet love much because she was forgiven much (Luke 7:36-50).

But we have also realize that there are things God tells us to do, as well.

It’s not always automatic.
How so?

We are told:

We are told to:

1. Continue in the grace of God (Acts of the Apostles 13:43).
2. Continue in the faith (Acts of the Apostles 14:22) (Colossians 1:23).
3. Continue in his goodness, otherwise we can be cut off (just like the Jews were cut off) (Romans 11:21-22).

But nowhere is this parable a defense for OSAS which leads men to think they can sin and still be saved. Yes, men can be in sin. When we first came to the Lord, our old life was one of sin. Yes, believers can stumble into sin on rare occasion, but they can go to God’s grace By confessing their sins and forsaking them and not say, I am saved even if I don’t confess or forsake these sins. I am already saved despite my being in sin. That’s not what the Parable is teaching. We see the Tax Collector seeking forgiveness of his sin with the Lord and not justifying that sin.

Well, all I can do is encourage you to be a detective and look again at the verses I posted to you on how works do play a part in our salvation after we are saved by God’s grace.

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

- Matthew 7:21-23 (KJV)

This is a strong warning to those who call themselves Christians but are only pretending. They do not do the will of God. They teach another gospel than the true Gospel of Jesus Christ. They teach traditions and doctrines that are not in the Scripture. You must do the will of God.

Of course it's evidence of salvation. Who has the Holy Spirit except those who are saved. And verse 12 says work it out...not produce it. You cannot work something out if you don't possess it.
Salvation is of God. You rob God of glory by ascribing His work to yourself. God does not share His glory with another.

Just picking up on your comment about no listening to Protestantism.

1...Many Protestant denominations teach you can lose your salvation. Charismatic Anglicans, Methodists, Presbyterians...all mostly do. Also 'high' church Protestantism..in Anglicans and Methodists etc.. is almost indestinguishable from Catholics in the way a service is run.

2... Baptist's that didn't need reform plus other independent Christian churches teach OSAS and aren't really Protestants... Only in that they helped the reformers but weren't reformers

Baptists churches are a branch of Protestantism, and they are a Protestant Church.

This is not true. Historically Baptists have never been Protestant. Only in modern times (1939 for the SBC) have Convention Baptists (and some others) declared that they are a protestant denomination. Get a copy and read "The Trail of Blood" by J.M. Carroll (and make sure you get a copy with the chart in the back).

[Dr. Carroll himself was a Southern Baptist who lived and died before the SBC went 'Protestant']

It's not a given that they did anything good from that passage:

Matthew 7:22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

The many say they did things, the Lord does not confirm this. He said he 'never knew them'. They were never saved, nor does the Lord confirm that they did even one work for the Kingdom. IMHO this passage is again addressing those who put their faith in their own works. God Bless You

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

- Matthew 7:21-23 (KJV)

This is a strong warning to those who call themselves Christians but are only pretending. They do not do the will of God. They teach another gospel than the true Gospel of Jesus Christ. They teach traditions and doctrines that are not in the Scripture. You must do the will of God.

Those professors are unable to enter the kingdom since the Lord did not know them, to begin with. The Lord said:
I never knew you

Perhaps this passage has a bearing:

1 Corinthians 3: 11 For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13 their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. 14 If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. 15 If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames. Again highlighting that salvation is not dependent on human works. We will be rewarded for what we have done for the Lord, .

…but salvation itself is a gift, not of works so that no man can boast.

God Bless You

I never said anything about their origins. What they were in the past does not matter. I am talking about today.
They are Protestant today. Many articles and sources will confirm they are Protestant today.

I am also not really into reading about various different churches and their history;