The Trinity

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

PaulThomson

Well-known member
Oct 29, 2023
2,025
264
83
Ok,
But what I think you are failing to see I the book of Acts is those who were preaching Christ as "Salvation" had to understand Jesus is God to be saved. It did not have to say as you, I think, are looking for "Hey, Jesus is God." Yet the power of God and HIS Gospel was testifying to that very truth.

If you read Acts, you will see it is also very much about the Holy Spirit work in the church at its birth, as Jesus said HE would do.

Only God can save and give eternal Life which is saying Jesus is God.

Acts 2:21

21 And it shall come to pass That whoever calls on the name of the Lord Shall be saved.’

As you read the book of Acts, the message to the Jrew, which Jesus said GO TO them first as His witness of HIS resurrection and confirmed that message with signs and wonders. The Jews needed to see Jesus as Resurrected, and the Messiah and Lord who came to them and is God. Luke presents Jesu as the Son of the Most high.

Each Gospel presents Jesus. in many ways an all are true.


Matthew = Messiah
Mark= Suffering servant
Luke = Son of man
John Son of God


The Book of Acts was written after this truth was known, and the church had already accepted the deity of Christ as the Gospel of Mark was most likely the first gospel. We must look at all Gospels and then the book of Acts
It seems to me that you are eisegeting, reading into texts, far more than those texts actually say in order to find your opinions in the texts. Yes, Acts was written likely AFTER at least three of the gospels, and Luke knew that Jesus is God. But Luke is reporting what the apostles actually taught as they initially took the gospel to the Jews and then the gentiles. And their saving teaching to unbelievers, as recorded faithfully in Acts, does not seem to have included a requirement to believe in the deity of Christ to receive the gracious forgiveness of sins offered in Christ. Bringing that as a requirement for salvation into Acts, based on the fact that that information about Jesus' nature is taught elsewhere, is not wise exegesis of the Acts texts themselves, imho.
 

PaulThomson

Well-known member
Oct 29, 2023
2,025
264
83
I disagree they knew when the Holy Spirit opened up, their understanding. We see that before the Cross and after. Yet they all were looking for the earthly King who was promised. it was after John 22 He breathed on the, and their understanding was open.
I think we may be using different meanings of "revealed". I am looking at "revealed" as the telling by Jesus that He was God, and you might be considering "revealed" as including both the telling and the understanding of what was told. If I uncover a live human posing as a statue, people may see only a statue. If I tell the audience that it's actually a live person, I have revealed that it is a live person, but the audience may still believe it is just an inert statue. If I tell the person to move, and they do, and stop in a different pose, then in another way I have revealed that it is a real person such that the audience now believes me, although some may still doubt.
 

PaulThomson

Well-known member
Oct 29, 2023
2,025
264
83
I see. But He did pay for our sins while on the cross. He did atone for our transgression and thereby secured peace with God for those who believe. And the basis for our forgiveness is his shed blood, and not our repentance.
Forgive my inadequate wording
In the book of Ruth, ch. 4, How much did Boaz, Naomi's kinsman redeemed, pay to "acquire" Naomi's land and Ruth as a wife with that land.? Compare also Num. 27:1-11.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
15,091
5,429
113
62
Yes.




Not exactly but close. A price had to be paid in blood before forgiveness could happen. In NT times after the cross, that price is paid but the forgiveness is not automatic. Repentance (asking to be forgiven, confessing your sins etc) is required.

1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.




No problem.
So what is the outcome of unconfessed sin?
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
15,091
5,429
113
62
In the book of Ruth, ch. 4, How much did Boaz, Naomi's kinsman redeemed, pay to "acquire" Naomi's land and Ruth as a wife with that land.? Compare also Num. 27:1-11.
He paid the price. The bride was included in the price. What is the point you want me to understand?
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
4,917
1,257
113
So what is the outcome of unconfessed sin?

That's up to God. I think it's possible to be injured (or health issue like heart attack) and die but be unable to repent. God will judge that person and what was done in their body. I believe God will be fair and consider past things like regular repentance etc.

2Co 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
 

PaulThomson

Well-known member
Oct 29, 2023
2,025
264
83
PaulThomson said:
In the book of Ruth, ch. 4, How much did Boaz, Naomi's kinsman redeemed, pay to "acquire" Naomi's land and Ruth as a wife with that land.? Compare also Num. 27:1-11.

He paid the price. The bride was included in the price. What is the point you want me to understand?
He paid no money. But what it cost him to get possession of that land was to pour out his life for the wife who came with the land. Just as Jesus as our kinsman redeemer inherited the earth that had belonged to the sick (Mahlon) and the destroyed (Chilion) by being nearest in kin to the first Adam. (...Seth son of Adam the son of God.)

In qualifying for and accepting ownership of the earth, Jesus inherited responsibility for the descendants of Adam that are on the earth. And those who choose to become His bride by putting trust in Him, become flesh of His flesh and bone of His bone, and Spirit of His Spirit and inherit everything with Him, including acceptance with God. The pouring out of Jesus' blood was not Jesus being punished instead of His bride. It was His engagement ring, demonstrating HIs love for His bride; "I love you so much that I will obey God in the face of any threats and abuse piled on me to try to disqualify me from inheriting the earth that your father Adam' handed over to the devil. If I defeat the devil, I get the land and you all with it." The parable of the treasure found in the field is instructive here.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
15,091
5,429
113
62
That's up to God. I think it's possible to be injured (or health issue like heart attack) and die but be unable to repent. God will judge that person and what was done in their body. I believe God will be fair and consider past things like regular repentance etc.

2Co 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
The reason I asked the question is because if forgiveness is based on confession, we are responsible for maintaining our salvation. Do you believe we are responsible for maintaining our salvation?
Also, if God considers our past behavior, is He still just by excusing our latest unconfessed sin on this basis?
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
15,091
5,429
113
62
PaulThomson said:
In the book of Ruth, ch. 4, How much did Boaz, Naomi's kinsman redeemed, pay to "acquire" Naomi's land and Ruth as a wife with that land.? Compare also Num. 27:1-11.



He paid no money. But what it cost him to get possession of that land was to pour out his life for the wife who came with the land. Just as Jesus as our kinsman redeemer inherited the earth that had belonged to the sick (Mahlon) and the destroyed (Chilion) by being nearest in kin to the first Adam. (...Seth son of Adam the son of God.)

In qualifying for and accepting ownership of the earth, Jesus inherited responsibility for the descendants of Adam that are on the earth. And those who choose to become His bride by putting trust in Him, become flesh of His flesh and bone of His bone, and Spirit of His Spirit and inherit everything with Him, including acceptance with God. The pouring out of Jesus' blood was not Jesus being punished instead of His bride. It was His engagement ring, demonstrating HIs love for His bride; "I love you so much that I will obey God in the face of any threats and abuse piled on me to try to disqualify me from inheriting the earth that your father Adam' handed over to the devil. If I defeat the devil, I get the land and you all with it." The parable of the treasure found in the field is instructive here.
The parable of the treasure speaks of the nature of the kingdom of God. While it has similar aspects, its message is concerning another topic. And while Boaz certainly typifies Christ, he doesn't typify him as a suffering servant. He does typify the abundance of Christ.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
12,393
4,083
113
It seems to me that you are eisegeting, reading into texts, far more than those texts actually say in order to find your opinions in the texts. Yes, Acts was written likely AFTER at least three of the gospels, and Luke knew that Jesus is God. But Luke is reporting what the apostles actually taught as they initially took the gospel to the Jews and then the gentiles. And their saving teaching to unbelievers, as recorded faithfully in Acts, does not seem to have included a requirement to believe in the deity of Christ to receive the gracious forgiveness of sins offered in Christ. Bringing that as a requirement for salvation into Acts, based on the fact that that information about Jesus' nature is taught elsewhere, is not wise exegesis of the Acts texts themselves, imho.
I disagree; I think you are at the expense of all Scriptures. Contextually eltizing a few verses within the text of Acts to build a narrative that is not supported by scriptures. You have what is descriptive but not established as a normative for your understanding. To properly Exegesis the text, you must look at all that is given in the sentence, verse, paragraph, chapter, book, and the Whole bible.

The Book of Acts without the Gospel of Luke is incomplete. Just like the Book of Daniel and The Book of Revelation are to be read together as unit books.
 

Underwhosewings

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2023
1,318
671
113
Australia
That's up to God. I think it's possible to be injured (or health issue like heart attack) and die but be unable to repent. God will judge that person and what was done in their body. I believe God will be fair and consider past things like regular repentance etc.

2Co 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
Salvation gives us a clean heart, past sin is forgiven.
Going on with the LORD, As we hear the word of God we are cleansed from failures “spot or wrinkle”

Ephesians 5:26, 27 KJV
That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

John 13:8 KJV
Peter saith unto him, Thou shalt never wash my feet. Jesus answered him, If I wash thee not, thou hast no part with me.

John 13:9-10 KJV
Simon Peter saith unto him, Lord, not my feet only, but also my hands and my head.
[10] Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean,….

In our daily walk with the LORD there maybe some defilement, failure or shortcomings.
We don’t need salvation again, but only to wash our feet (daily walk)

That’s where we come to
“the blood of sprinkling”

Hebrews 12:22-24 KJV
But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
[23] To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, [24] And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

John 13:14 KJV
If I then, your Lord and Master, have washed your feet;
ye also ought to wash one another's feet.

See the spiritual meaning.
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
4,917
1,257
113
The reason I asked the question is because if forgiveness is based on confession, we are responsible for maintaining our salvation. Do you believe we are responsible for maintaining our salvation?

We are responsible for confessing our sins to be forgiven. Is that the same thing?

1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
15,091
5,429
113
62
We are responsible for confessing our sins to be forgiven. Is that the same thing?

1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
I already know what I believe. I'm asking what you believe.
If the basis for forgiveness our confession? If so, are we responsible for maintaining our salvation?
And, just for kicks, does the verse actually imply confession is the reason sins are forgiven, or merely God is both faithful and just in doing so because of something else...possibly found in chapter 2.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
15,091
5,429
113
62
I believe what the verse says. If we confess, God will forgive us.
Of course it does. I'm asking is forgiveness conditioned upon confession. In other words, if a sin is not confessed, is that sin forgiven? If not, are there any eternal consequences for the unconfessed sin?