Nothing old in Old, nothing new in New

Paul tells us that the goal of our instruction is love from a pure heart, a good conscience, and a sincere faith. In fact, at some point in the future the faithful whom the Lord foreknew are predestined to be conformed to the image of Christ. But we begin our journey of transformation as babes in Christ. For if the blood of bulls and goats, and the ashes of a heifer, sanctifies to the cleansing of the flesh; how much more shall the blood of Jesus, who by the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge one's conscience from dead works to serve the living God. For this cause Jesus is the mediator of the New Testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of transgressions under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

For when for the time you ought to be teachers, you have need that one teach you again the elementary principals of the doctrine of Christ and are such as have need of milk rather than strong meat. For anyone who is unskillful in the word of righteous is a babe and needs milk. Whereas strong meat belongs to those who are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil. So, when we first come to the Lord the Holy Spirit ministers the word of righteousness until we learn the first principals of Christ and are no longer unskillful in the word of righteousness. Then we're able to move on to the meat of scripture as determined by the Holy Spirit.

The ultimate goal of the Lord is for each of us to have strong faith in the promises of God, lives full of love for others that is ever growing, and to have produced matured fruits of the Spirit. To hear the Lord's still small voice and to be sensitive to the Spirit's leading with an anointing of the Lord's presence and power upon us. To be able ministers of the gospel having attained to the full measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ.

Ridiculous hypocrisy. The covenant was between God and Israel. The presence of some gentiles is irrelevant, because the covenant was never between God and the gentiles. Those who join themselves to Israel relate to God through Israel's covenant.


No, it is not. It's the instructions for Israel on how to relate to God. Belief is in the mind. Relating is in the actions.

Um, no, in that case we would be testifying that we don't believe in the One He has sent! Galatians 3 asks us, "Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith?" and "Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?" (ESV)

Nice idea, but Jesus doesn't connect "good works" with "works of the law". He changes subjects after saying this and starts talking about the law, and He is speaking to those under the law, not to Christians.

Wrong! That is the result of believing rightly in Him.

Wrong to the point of stupidity as well as profoundly arrogant.

Exactly, not through works of the law!

Your last statement is still wrong.

Deal with Galatians 3.

Jesus said that to a young man who was under the law. Christians aren't under the law.

Absolutely not! No gentile is obligated to adhere to the Mosaic law to worship God. They worship in spirit and in truth through faith in Jesus Christ.

You need to read Galatians and keep reading it until you get it through your Judaizer head. You're dangerously wrong. You have fallen from grace.

“And the LORD said unto Moses, Behold, thou shalt sleep with thy fathers; and this people will rise up, and go a whoring after the gods of the strangers of the land, whither they go to be among them, and will forsake me, and break my covenant which I have made with them.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭31:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

later

“The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭24:5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Later

“Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:”
‭‭Jeremiah‬ ‭31:31-32‬ ‭KJV‬‬

He’s already clearly said he’s going to make another covenant not according to the other made at Sinai which isreal broke …..


“The law and the prophets were until John:


since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭16:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

This is not what Jesus taught

“And if a man cause a blemish in his neighbour; as he hath done, so shall it be done to him; breach for breach, eye for eye, tooth for tooth: as he hath caused a blemish in a man, so shall it be done to him again.”
‭‭Leviticus‬ ‭24:19-20‬ ‭

“And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭21:23-25‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And thine eye shall not pity; but life shall go for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭19:21‬ ‭

“But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel: then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the whore in her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭22:20-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Jesus doesnt teach any of that in fact if I obey these things I’m not obeying the lord who taught us the opposite

He taught us never to judge and cast stones he taught us not to go eye for eye and tooth for tooth and life for life but to not take revenge to forgive and be merciful he never taught show no pity to the sinners among you …..he came to save sinners from the death sentance of the old covenant

the old covenant was mediated by Moses word , cleansed and purchased with animal blood given specifically to a blood descendant line of Jacob who himself is israel the nation is the children of Israel.

god made a covenant with them and they broke the covenant he made with them like he said they would …..then he promised to make a new covenant not according to the old covenant that they broke

The old covenant doesn’t offer remission of sins , ot doesn’t offer the holt spirit in a believer , it never offers baptism in Christs name , it relies on the blood of goats and bulls and sheep and lambs ot requires a man made temple built upon a certain holy place to be carried out …..the old covenant t doesn’t require confession or faith in Christ or his resurrection

The old promised a plot of land on this earth , the new promises a new earth and heaven where God will dwell among men. The old promised good crops riches blessings and long lives on earth before you died , the new offers blessing and persecution on earth and eternal
Life after you die for your everlasting soul …..

the doctrines are not even close to the same everything in the new is the reality and everything in tbe old was a shadow and pattern …the ot completes to the new just as a lambs blood compares to Christs . The word of Moses a man who killed , and failed to sanctify God in the sight of all israel and then died for it ….. and Jesus the son of God who was without sin even as they crucified and tortured him who then rose from the grave into everlasting life having been raised to the highest throne of the heavens with a name that is above all names who alone holds salvstion who loses uo self prophesied would come and speak the words of Gods requirement

the Old Testament , is a prophetic pattern and promise for the messiah the New Testament os the word of e messiah and the promises he made

you just disproved your own argument here in the bold. why do we have Jesus as the sacrificial lamb? if theres nothing new in the new covenant then we can just use the good ole animal sacrifices

Hmmmm, when did I ever say there were no changes to the New Covenant. How we seek forgiveness of sin was a huge part of the NC. What did not change was the law that defines sin, the Ten Commandments Romans 7:7 Mat 5:19-30 and what we will be judged by James 2:10-12 Mat 5:19-30 Ecc 12:13-14. Hence why God wrote His laws in our hearts Heb 10:16 Jer 31:33 instead of deleting His laws. Now instead of written on stone it is written in tablets of our heart and no longer based on our efforts but what God does and we keep these commandments in our heart through love and faith. 1 John 5:3 Rev 14:12 John 14:15 Exo 20:6 Rom 3:31

With all due respect, I never indicated that the Second Testament was in any way negated.

Also, your response is why I avoid direct Bible quotes to justify my statements. I believe you can justify anything by using selective quotes. Your eye-for-eye comments for example, was not a commandment of personal conduct given by God to his people, it was standards given to leaders in the administration of justice. (Standards that are sorely needed today by the way). There are also many requirements God gave to his people for when they entered the land. These requirements were directed to a specific time and circumstance. It is an error to try to apply them universally. For example, God told his people when they “enter the land” they are to let the land rest every seventh year, the Jubilee Year. Trying to apply that standard today would result in mass starvation. Modern land management techniques farmers rebuild the land so it does not require full years rest. That was for then.

The second testament brought God’s world from the physical realm to the spiritual realm, it changed nothing. The new promise did not replace the older promises. He said so.

…….nothing changed

“For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭7:12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Nothing was disanulled because ot wasn’t of profit

“For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof. For the law made nothing perfect,


but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭7:18-19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Nothing changed

“For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:10-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The old testement was prophetic and was fulfilled it was foretelling the messiah who would speak the words of God as Moses foretold in the law …..

The old covenant was broken and e everything God said in the law about if they broke it came to pass then he promised another covenant not the same covenant not Moses words not this

“and not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: but their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭3:13-15‬ ‭

Not what Moses said to do in the desert of sin but what the lord said to do when he came

The law of Moses is the old covenant

Moses words and animal blood given to a specific fleshly people who had no holt ghost who weren’t born again

“And he took the book of the covenant, and read in the audience of the people:

and they said, All that the LORD hath said will we do, and be obedient.

And Moses took the blood, and sprinkled it on the people, and said, Behold the blood of the covenant, which the LORD hath made with you concerning all these words.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭24:7-8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And afterward he read all the words of the law, the blessings and cursings, according to all that is written in the book of the law. There was not a word of all that Moses commanded, which Joshua read not before all the congregation of Israel, with the women, and the little ones, and the strangers that were conversant among them.”
‭‭Joshua‬ ‭8:34-35‬ ‭KJV‬‬

don’t you think we should probably see what the law says in it about what would happen if they broke it ? It is really plain what he tells them he lays out hindreds of possible blessings if they keep and obey all his covenant as they said . And he lays out hindreds of curses if they break it and turn to other gods that’s exactly what they did repeatedly throughout the Old Testament they worshipped every god but him and his words were true they broke his covenant d the curses came upon them just like he said they would


honestly when people try to put Moses and Jesus words together and make them the same it just tells me they have never read the words of Moses and Jesus

jesus didn’t teach the things Moses taught he taught better things far better things that save sinners that lead us to repentance Moses taught the things that condemn sinners to death and do not allow repentance b it demand a death sentence for sin

The old testement laws do not mix with Jesus and his word christians are nOt beholden to Moses words they are of the gospel and the words of God that promise salvstion and in inheritance that has nothing to do with this earth

one testament was fulfilled as a curse the other was given first to israel by the lord , then preached to the world by his disciples after. Moses law can’t save anyone because it’s not meant to it’s for these folks to make them guilty with no excuse

“knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, for whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭1:9-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

God back and read what happened from exodus to Moses death and listen to what God is actually saying will happen later and then you’ll realize the old covenant was like a pattern prophetically showing the new that would later come to offer life

The old isnt part of the new it doesn’t fit it served it’s purpose

“Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3:19-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The law isn’t the gospel it’s showing the reason we need the gospel …revealing what sin is and that it’s death

have to go to Jesus not Moses if I obey Moses I will be disobeying jesus because they teach contrary points of doctrine for contrary reasons one to condemn and make guilty sinners ……the other to bring them to repentance and eternal life

but everyone has thier opinions though I guess if we don’t care what the Bible says happened then nothing changed but if we read the Bible it explains that everything is new the old was fulfilled and new has come offering life

But I mean

“For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭7:12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

yeah things changed reading and praying about Hebrews will explain to anyone what happened and seperate the old covenant from the new

You keep saying nothing changed, then keep posting the Scriptures which say that everything changed. So exactly what are you trying to accomplish?

Except that Jesus fulfilled the Old, and established the New with His precious blood.......that is NEW!

I’m responding to someone saying “ nothing. Changed” you’d have to read through the conversation…..

the entire covenant changed the word spoken to the mediator who spoke of the temple the preisthood the service the chosen and elect people the things they were promised ect everything is new the old is not part of it it was a prior witness that the lord would come and do what he did say what he said

Nothing changed says the man everything changed says the word it’s a contrast to make a simple point

if I think nothing changed ……and the bible explains everything has changed
I need to let go of that I thought I was wrong

“For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭7:12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The preisthood changed from Aaron’s order to melchezideks order the law was given under authority of e leviticle preisthood Jesus isnt a priest of the levites or thier law it’s a different order entirely the law was given under the levites it’s a different oreosithood because it’s a different covenant

“If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭7:11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

a Jesus didn’t have authority to be a preset of the law he was born of Judah who had no attendance at the alter.

The word changed

“But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭8:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

better covenant established upon better promises from the mediator of the new covenant not the old

“but ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, and to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭12:22-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

just before that he’s explaining you haven’t come to the law goven at Sinai

The point is simple we should change what we thought when the Bible says the opposite otherwise we’ll never learn anything all of these subjects are thou rightly explained in scripture

If I’ve concluded nothing changes from Moses law to the gospel and Jesus why wouldnt I change my thoughts when I read plainly they aren’t in line with the truth

So is this

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

First, gracious "Thank You" for the comments and responses. I have read them all, as best I could, and appreciate the chance to learn and grow; and I did both.

The OP was really ment to initiate a discussion about the relative importance of the "First Testament" with the "Second Testament" I became a bit concerned when my Pastor was recently forced to apologize to the congregation for preaching from the First Testament, and to promise to quickly return to preaching from the Second. Apparently three consecutive weeks in Joshua as just too much for some members. That is both sad and frightening.

I noted how quickly the conversation turned from Testaments to Covenants. That was interesting. I did note that for all the Second Testament quotes included, only one person sited Matthew 5:17-20. I found the connections from that passage to the discussions of a New Covenant to be fascinating.

That should not be surprising. It is the two covenants that need to be looked and and compared. That is what "testament" means. The Greek diatheke* can be translated as either covenant or testament. Apart from that, the OT is there for Christians as much as the NT. The entire Bible is for doctrine, reproof, correction, and instruction in righteousness.

Strong's Concordance
diathéké: testament, will, covenant
Original Word: διαθήκη, ης, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: diathéké
Phonetic Spelling: (dee-ath-ay'-kay)
Definition: testament, will, covenant
Usage: (a) a covenant between two parties, (b) (the ordinary, everyday sense [found a countless number of times in papyri]) a will, testament.