Sunday Worship?

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Dec 13, 2023
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Your overarching message is tied to the keeping of the law. But the message of the Bible isn't the law. The message of the Bible is about what God has done to reconcile sinful people to Himself.
The law does play a role in accomplishing this. But it is only a role...not the goal. And its fulfillment of this role actually leads us away from it and to Christ. This in no way diminishes the law itself. The problem is sinful flesh.
There are some incredible things that transpire in salvation. And there is a way to live free of sin. We become alive spiritually, but we retain our sinful flesh. This means we are not put back into the estate Adam began in. He had no propensity towards sin. So the law itself will continue to do as it did in our flesh before we were saved; that is, according to Romans 7, it will stir up in us the motions of sin. It creates in us a desire for sin.
Had God taken this propensity for sin away we would be again as Adam. The reason He didn't is because eventually we too would fall into sin. Instead, He made us partakers of the divine nature. Rather than have us begin afresh under a failed paradigm, He gave us a paradigm that cannot fail. God has taken upon Himself the task of keeping the law in and through us. We have no need to focus on the law. We need only respond to the leading of the Spirit. He can only lead us according to the law. This is where our focus should be...seeking the kingdom of God and His righteousness.
The focus on our part on the keeping of the law will only serve to cause us to desire sin. But the focus on the Spirit who focuses on the law for us will produce life in us.
What is sin?

1 John 3:4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.
What law is sin? Both Jesus and Paul point to the Ten Commandments Romans 7:7 Mat 5:19-30 as it is what we will be judged by James 2:10-12, Mat 5:19-30 Ecc 12:13-14

What is our salvation from? Sin Mat 1:21

Sin (breaking God’s law) is what separated man from God Isaiah 59:2

Those who overcome through Christ will be reconciled back to God
Revelation 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

The message of the Bible is that Adam and Eve sinned (they broke God’s law) because they listened to the other spirit instead of obeying God. The whole bible is how do we reconcile back to God.

Jesus came to take the penalty of our sin because the penalty of sin (breaking God’s law) is death Romans 6:23. Jesus did not come to take away the law that defines sin otherwise He would not had to take the penalty for breaking the law.

Jesus came to be our bridge. He loves us so much He came down from heaven not only to take the penalty of sin, but to show us the righteous way to live, He kept the commandments, He taught on them, He lived them and He was tempted just like us, but was without sin Hebrews 4:15

In the NC instead of killing animals for sin (breaking God’s law) we can go directly to Jesus when we repent and confess which means a change in direction.

Why the law is so important is because it shows us our sins Romans 3:20 and our need for Jesus. If we cover our sins we can’t confess nor forsake them, therefore we can’t prosper by receiving His mercy and grace. Proverbs 28:13

Who do you think wants us to believe we don’t have to keep God’s law, that we can sanctify ourselves, we don’t need God, its the other spirit who has the majority of people fooled into believing we can be saved in our sins, but Christ came to save us from our sins, not in them Mat 1:21 if we don’t know what our sins our how can we confess or forsake

Trusting Jesus in what He taught and how He lived and following His example will lead us on the narrow path and back to reconciliation.

Rev 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

It’s why the wisest man in scripture said this…

Ecc 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter:
Fear God and keep His commandments,
For this is man’s all.


And Paul said something similar
19 Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters.

This is the fruit of a saved person:

Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
 

Freth

New member
Jul 11, 2020
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Pointing Back to Creation

If the Sabbath is not meant to be kept, why does scripture keep referring back to the creation account concerning worship?

The creation account:

Genesis 2:1-3 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
God didn't need to rest, but He rested anyway. God didn't need to sanctify it, but He made it holy anyway.

The fourth commandment, written by God's hand twice and spoken by His own voice:

Exodus 20:8-11 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: but the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
  • The commandment God said to remember man forgot. He knew man would forget, which is why He commanded man to remember.
  • Why? Points back to creation: made; created, observed, blessed, hallowed.
    • Sabbath: A memorial of creation.
      • For (why/because) in six days the Lord (of the Sabbath) made heaven and earth and all that in them is..
      • The Lord (of the Sabbath) rested the seventh day.
      • The Lord (of the Sabbath) blessed and hallowed the seventh day Sabbath.
  • A day to remember, to be kept holy, to rest—a day of worship.
Jesus:

Mark 2:27-28 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath: Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.
  • The Sabbath was made for man.
    • Points back to creation: made; created, observed and sanctified.
    • Notice, it doesn't say made for the Jews.
  • Therefore...(because the Sabbath was made for man; created, observed and sanctified).
    • The Son of man is Lord also of the Sabbath.
      • Strong's G2962 Lord (kyrios):
        1. he to whom a person or thing belongs, about which he has power of deciding; master, lord
          1. the possessor and disposer of a thing
            1. the owner; one who has control of the person, the master
            2. in the state: the sovereign, prince, chief, the Roman emperor
          2. is a title of honour expressive of respect and reverence, with which servants greet their master
          3. this title is given to: God, the Messiah
  • Man was not made for the Sabbath.
    • Man was created on the sixth day. The Sabbath had yet to exist.
    • The Sabbath was made for man. It was created, observed and sanctified for man on that first seventh day.
The Revelation of Jesus Christ—The First Angel's Message:

Revelation 14:6-7 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
  • A final end time message to the world.
  • The angel has the everlasting gospel to preach to them that dwell on the earth, to every nation, kindred, tongue and people.
    • Saying with a loud voice:
      • Fear God
      • Give glory to Him
      • For (why/because) the hour of His judgment is come (present tense).
      • Points back to creation: Worship Him that made the heaven, earth, sea and fountains of waters.
Pointing Forward to Creation

Isaiah:

Isaiah 66:22-23 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed and your name remain. And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.​
  • Points forward to creation: The Lord (of the Sabbath) will make a new heavens and new earth.
  • The seventh day Sabbath will be observed perpetually.

Jesus, the Disciples and the Sabbath

Jesus:

Like 4:16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.
  • Observing the Sabbath was His custom and teaching others to do so.

Disciples:

Mark 1:17-21 And Jesus said unto them, Come ye after me, and I will make you to become fishers of men. And straightway they forsook their nets, and followed him. And when he had gone a little farther thence, he saw James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother, who also were in the ship mending their nets. And straightway he called them: and they left their father Zebedee in the ship with the hired servants, and went after him. And they went into Capernaum; and straightway on the sabbath day he entered into the synagogue, and taught.​
  • Observing the Sabbath with Jesus, as was His custom and teaching others to do so.

Paul and those with him:

Acts 13:14 But when they departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and sat down.
Acts 13:27 For they that dwell at Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they knew him not, nor yet the voices of the prophets which are read every sabbath day, they have fulfilled them in condemning him.
Acts 13:42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.
Acts 13:44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.
Acts 16:13 And on the sabbath we went out of the city by a river side, where prayer was wont to be made; and we sat down, and spake unto the women which resorted thither.
Acts 17:2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures.
Acts 18:4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.
  • Observing the Sabbath was their custom and teaching others to do so.

Jesus and Tradition vs Commandment Keeping

Matthew 15:1 Then came to Jesus scribes and Pharisees, which were of Jerusalem, saying, Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread. But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition? For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death. But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.
  • Why do you transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
  • You have made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.

Conclusion

Sabbath
  • The Sabbath was instituted at creation.
  • God commanded that we remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
  • The Sabbath will be observed in perpetuity in the new heaven and new earth.
  • Scripture points back to creation in the Sabbath commandment and in the last call to worship for the end time people of God.
  • Scripture points forward to the new heaven and new earth, and eternity, concerning the Sabbath commandment and worship.
  • Scripture shows that Jesus and the disciples worshiped on the Sabbath, and taught on the Sabbath.
  • The Sabbath has been observed throughout earth's history, starting with creation, and will be observed for eternity.
  • The Sabbath commandment has never been abrogated.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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Scripture shows that Jesus and the disciples worshiped on the Sabbath, and taught on the Sabbath.
What you missed is how the Church -- the apostolic churches -- observed the first day of the week as THE CHRISTIAN SABBATH. So the commandment is still there but its application is now to the Lord's Day. Also the seventh day Sabbath is specifically given to ISRAEL under the Law of Moses, but never given to the Church. So unsaved Jews observe the seventh day Sabbath and Christians observe the eighth day Sabbath.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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He chose to sin, but did not have the motions of sin as described in Romans 7 at work in him until after the fall.
The motions of sin? I have not seen/heard that phrase before. To which verse are you referring?

My walk tuned into a shopping trip LOL
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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If the Sabbath is not meant to be kept, why does scripture keep referring back to the creation account concerning worship?
Pointing forward to Jesus, in Whom we find rest from works to be reconciled to God and attain to life ever after.

God didn't need to rest, but He rested anyway.
For the same reason as stated above...
 
Dec 13, 2023
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Pointing forward to Jesus, in Whom we find rest from works to be reconciled to God and attain to life ever after.


For the same reason as stated above...
Revelation 14:11-13
11 And the smoke of their torments shall ascend up for ever and ever: neither have they rest day nor night, who have adored the beast, and his image, and whoever receiveth the character of his name. 12 Here is the patience of the saints, who keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. 13 And I heard a voice from heaven, saying to me: Write: Blessed are the dead, who die in the Lord. From henceforth now, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; for their works follow them. 14 And I saw, and behold a white cloud; and upon the cloud one sitting like to the Son of man, having on his head a crown of gold, and in his hand a sharp sickle. 15 And another angel came out from the temple crying with a loud voice to him that sat upon the cloud: Thrust in thy sickle, and reap, because the hour is come to reap: for the harvest of the earth is ripe.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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The Sabbath has been observed throughout earth's history, starting with creation, and will be observed for eternity.
Where are the verses showing Sabbath observance before the law was given?
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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Revelation 14:11-13
11 And the smoke of their torments shall ascend up for ever and ever: neither have they rest day nor night, who have adored the beast, and his image, and whoever receiveth the character of his name. 12 Here is the patience of the saints, who keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. 13 And I heard a voice from heaven, saying to me: Write: Blessed are the dead, who die in the Lord. From henceforth now, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; for their works follow them. 14 And I saw, and behold a white cloud; and upon the cloud one sitting like to the Son of man, having on his head a crown of gold, and in his hand a sharp sickle. 15 And another angel came out from the temple crying with a loud voice to him that sat upon the cloud: Thrust in thy sickle, and reap, because the hour is come to reap: for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

Amen!:)
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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The motions of sin? I have not seen/heard that phrase before. To which verse are you referring?

My walk tuned into a shopping trip LOL
Romans 7:5. The KJV uses the phrase. ..the motions of sin...It refers to our sinful nature or propensity that the knowledge of the law stirs up within us. Read verses 8 through 11 for Paul's explanation.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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Romans 7:5. The KJV uses the phrase. ..the motions of sin...It refers to our sinful nature or propensity
that the knowledge of the law stirs up within us. Read verses 8 through 11 for Paul's explanation.
Thank you, Cameron, I will read it now...

Must I read the KJV? .:unsure::LOL:;)
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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The motions of sin? I have not seen/heard that phrase before. To which verse are you referring?

My walk tuned into a shopping trip LOL
A preacher gave a great example of this. I'll butcher it for sure, but here goes:

A man was at the park in his neighborhood and noticed some kids walking across the grass even though there was a sign directing them not to do so.
The same man was visiting his sister in a town a short distance away and they went to the park there. The man noticed that all the kids walked on the walkways even though there were no signs directing such behavior.

There is something in us all that wants to break the rules simply because we know about them...the motions of sin.
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
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Revelation 14:11-13
11 And the smoke of their torments shall ascend up for ever and ever: neither have they rest day nor night, who have adored the beast, and his image, and whoever receiveth the character of his name. 12 Here is the patience of the saints, who keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. 13 And I heard a voice from heaven, saying to me: Write: Blessed are the dead, who die in the Lord. From henceforth now, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; for their works follow them. 14 And I saw, and behold a white cloud; and upon the cloud one sitting like to the Son of man, having on his head a crown of gold, and in his hand a sharp sickle. 15 And another angel came out from the temple crying with a loud voice to him that sat upon the cloud: Thrust in thy sickle, and reap, because the hour is come to reap: for the harvest of the earth is ripe.
In your quotation from Revelation 14 is the following verse.

12 Here is the patience of the saints, who keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

There are two very specific references to "commandments" in the New Testament.

One reference is to the law.

And the other reference is shown below.

1 John 3:21-24
Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence before God; and whatever we ask, we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do the things that are pleasing in His sight. This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us. The one who keeps His commandments remains in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He remains in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

One side will adhere to the law and the other side will follow 1 John 3.

Old commandments or new commandments?

Which one will you choose?
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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Don't tell the OSAS peoples that... they get their feelings hurt easily when people don't
agree with their doctrine that claims one is still saved even IF they continue in sin.

They will claim they don't believe that, but it's just double speak which is why most politicians
are adherents to OSAS doctrine since they are skilled and gas lighting and double speak! View attachment 258867
Oh, Jimmy, you done gone and gotten yourself banned? ^This was your last post but I just found out now...
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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Sad really. Who is going to remind Jimmy to repent and be saved daily?
Apparently, Jimmy already knows well enough that he needs to repent of and confess his sins daily
and yet the funny thing is? He believes those who are in bondage to a lifestyle of sin such as would
require daily repentance and confession are heading to hell with their license to sin. Most peculiar!
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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Apparently, Jimmy already knows well enough that he needs to repent of and confess his sins daily
and yet the funny thing is? He believes those who are in bondage to a lifestyle of sin such as would
require daily repentance and confession are heading to hell with their license to sin. Most peculiar!
I'm sure he will be back under another name.