Orthodox Jew answers a few questions

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Magenta

Magenta

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Mii said:
I like this train of thought. My understanding is that it is the age of spiritual maturity in scripture. These aren't
the only occurrence of this in scripture but they are the only ones singled out by name as far as I'm aware.

Thanks for sharing :)
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30 is the age when priests assumed their duties.

Are the Levites 25 or 30? <= from a general search:

“This is what applies to the Levites: from twenty-five years old and upward they shall enter to perform
service in the work of the tent of meeting.” Now if you check the parallel passages in Numbers 4 and in
I Chronicles 23, what you'll find is that in both of those passages, the age is thirty. Also @Mem :)

Numbers 4:1 And HaShem spake unto Moses and unto Aaron, saying, 2 Take the sum of the sons of Kohath from among the sons of Levi, after their families, by the house of their fathers, 3 From thirty years old and upward even until fifty years old, all that enter into the host, to do the work in the tabernacle of the congregation.

Numbers 4:21-23 And HaShem spake unto Moses, saying, 22 Take also the sum of the sons of Gershon, throughout the houses of their fathers, by their families; 23 From thirty years old and upward until fifty years old shalt thou number them; all that enter in to perform the service, to do the work in the tabernacle of the congregation.

Numbers 4:29 As for the sons of Merari, thou shalt number them after their families, by the house of their fathers; 30 From thirty years old and upward even unto fifty years old shalt thou number them, every one that entereth into the service, to do the work of the tabernacle of the congregation.
 
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Aviva

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uncle_mike said:
I never read He rejected the Torah ever. I wonder where that idea comes from? He only promoted the worship of the Heavenly Father, Yahweh. He instructed people to obey His God, who is Yahweh. He just claimed to be sent by Yahweh. I wonder where the idea of Him promoting other gods or rejecting the Torah came from? That would be interesting since it is not written down anywhere.
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Do Christian's keep all the laws of the Torah? Why or why not?
 
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uncle_mike

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Aviva said:
Do Christian's keep all the laws of the Torah? Why or why not?
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Technically, they go by the writings of Paul here. Jesus never said stop obeying the Laws. Paul spoke about Grace and people turned it into a doctrine. Here's what Jesus said about the issue.

Matthew 5:17 (“Do not think that I have come to abolish Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.”)
 
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uncle_mike

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In fact, if You read most of the New Testament and not read any of what Paul wrote. You will see the Disciples of Jesus kept the Law and still honored the Commandments. Peter did get a dream about unclean/clean food. But it merely was to mean that Gentiles were now being accepted by God.
 
ZNP

ZNP

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uncle_mike said:
In fact, if You read most of the New Testament and not read any of what Paul wrote. You will see the Disciples of Jesus kept the Law and still honored the Commandments. Peter did get a dream about unclean/clean food. But it merely was to mean that Gentiles were now being accepted by God.
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Christians are not under the ordinances of the Jewish religion, but the moral laws are repeated in the New Testament. The only dietary regulation we are told to keep is to not eat blood.

Nor are we to keep circumcision, that was a sign of the covenant that the Jews have, the sign of our covenant is the cross of Christ that circumcises our heart. That is the sign of the covenant we have with the Lord Jesus.

Nor do we keep the sabbath even though it is part of the ten commandments because Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath and we keep the Lord's day, the day of resurrection.
 
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uncle_mike

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ZNP said:
Christians are not under the ordinances of the Jewish religion, but the moral laws are repeated in the New Testament. The only dietary regulation we are told to keep is to not eat blood.

Nor are we to keep circumcision, that was a sign of the covenant that the Jews have, the sign of our covenant is the cross of Christ that circumcises our heart. That is the sign of the covenant we have with the Lord Jesus.

Nor do we keep the sabbath even though it is part of the ten commandments because Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath and we keep the Lord's day, the day of resurrection.
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This is because of the writings of Paul. If there never was a Paul, and we only had the Gospels, the Disciples, and the brothers of Jesus, there's no evidence that the Law had ended.
 
ZNP

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uncle_mike said:
This is because of the writings of Paul. If there never was a Paul, and we only had the Gospels, the Disciples, and the brothers of Jesus, there's no evidence that the Law had ended.
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The law never did end.
 
Moses_Young

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ZNP said:
Christians are not under the ordinances of the Jewish religion, but the moral laws are repeated in the New Testament. The only dietary regulation we are told to keep is to not eat blood.

Nor are we to keep circumcision, that was a sign of the covenant that the Jews have, the sign of our covenant is the cross of Christ that circumcises our heart. That is the sign of the covenant we have with the Lord Jesus.

Nor do we keep the sabbath even though it is part of the ten commandments because Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath and we keep the Lord's day, the day of resurrection.
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In summary, the marriage covenant Israel had with God was fulfilled when she murdered Him by having Him nailed to the cross? Which is why Christians are under a New Covenant (Testament) in Christ, through His blood.
 
ZNP

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uncle_mike said:
True. But as far as we knowing whether to abide by it or not, that is because of the writings of Paul.
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Just because people twist the scriptures to their own destruction does not mean this should be put at Paul's feet.
 
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uncle_mike

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ZNP said:
Just because people twist the scriptures to their own destruction does not mean this should be put at Paul's feet.
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Why? Only Paul wrote about what we adhere to today. No one else mentioned it. Only Paul did.
 
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Aviva

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Moses_Young said:
In summary, the marriage covenant Israel had with God was fulfilled when she murdered Him by having Him nailed to the cross? Which is why Christians are under a New Covenant (Testament) in Christ, through His blood.
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Ah replacement theology. Another "G-d changed his mind/the Torah" despite him specifically saying he would never do that.
 
Moses_Young

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Aviva said:
Ah replacement theology. Another "G-d changed his mind/the Torah" despite him specifically saying he would never do that.
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"Rules for thee, but not for me", eh? Typical subversive.

A reminder of what you posted previously.

Aviva said:
Here's my advice... don't tell people what you think is inside their heads, you're not a mind reader and you'll likely be wrong.

It's also really obnoxious.

Besides that since you already believe you know what I'm thinking, if I say anything different you'll just think I'm lying or in denial anyway which makes any conversation a waste of time.
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uncle_mike

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Aviva said:
Ah replacement theology. Another "G-d changed his mind/the Torah" despite him specifically saying he would never do that.
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No, think of it that rams, bulls, goats, dove sacrifice had to continually be done to remove sin. But if Jesus is Who He claims to be, then we no longer have to offer sacrifice. He did it for everyone.
 
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uncle_mike

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If I sin now, which I do. I no longer need to do something to get forgiveness. I need to be remorseful, but instead of offering a sacrifice, I need to now just repent of it sincerely because I know sin separates me from God in a technical way.
 
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uncle_mike

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The sacrifice now being done is me on my knees asking God to forgive me. Instead of going to the Temple and the process of shedding blood and burnt offering, I am doing it by asking God to forgive me but doing it sincerely. I know it is sincere because when I sin I feel guilty. I want to be forgiven and have a clear conscious.
 
ZNP

ZNP

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uncle_mike said:
Why? Only Paul wrote about what we adhere to today. No one else mentioned it. Only Paul did.
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Give me the case against Paul based on his writings and it will become obvious that it is a twisting of the word.

The ten commandments are like a photograph of God. Paul said we are being conformed to the image of God.
 
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Aviva

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Moses_Young said:
"Rules for thee, but not for me", eh? Typical subversive.

A reminder of what you posted previously.
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You just stated that G-d's covenant ended when we "murdered" Jesus. That isba direct contradiction of the Torah and Hashem's express words on the subject. Try and be consistent.
 
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uncle_mike

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ZNP said:
Give me the case against Paul based on his writings and it will become obvious that it is a twisting of the word.
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How come you believe in a doctrine of Grace? Who wrote about it and then it became a doctrine? And obviously, it's a misused and misrepresentation of what this Person wrote.
 
ZNP

ZNP

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Moses_Young said:
In summary, the marriage covenant Israel had with God was fulfilled when she murdered Him by having Him nailed to the cross? Which is why Christians are under a New Covenant (Testament) in Christ, through His blood.
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You have that backwards. The covenant that God made with Abraham was forever, eternal. The promise made to David was eternal, forever.

What Paul said in Romans is that if your husband dies then you are free to marry another and no longer held under the marriage covenant. The point is if you die in Christ you are free from any previous covenant you may have made to be joined with Christ.

It is ridiculous to intepret it the way you have because Paul says explicitly that the Jews do have a covenant with God.
 
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