What Does It Mean That God Desires All People To Be Saved?

I offer Romans 9. Not to start an argument, concerning OSAS, but as scripture that has made me believe that it is so.



OSAS is an issue that will be debated forever, and whether you believe it is true or not has nothing to do with salvation. If you truly believe in God and repent, you will be forgiven. The reason I believe in OSAS is that it gives me comfort that I was forgiven, that my sins are nailed to the cross, have received God's grace and mercy, and it will never be taken away. No one can snatch me out of His hand.



To think that I might forfeit this gift would drive me crazy with fear because I know that I will remain a sinner until the day I die or He returns.



If this offends others within this forum, it is not intentional. I did a forum search on reformed and OSAS which both appeared within this topic
Romans 9
Paul’s Anguish Over Israel

1 I speak the truth in Christ—I am not lying, my conscience confirms it through the Holy Spirit—

2 I have great sorrow and unceasing anguish in my heart.

3 For I could wish that I myself were cursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my people, those of my own race,

4 the people of Israel. Theirs is the adoption to sonship; theirs the divine glory, the covenants, the receiving of the law, the temple worship and the promises.

5 Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of the Messiah, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen.
God’s Sovereign Choice

6 It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel.

7 Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham’s children. On the contrary, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.”

8 In other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring.

9 For this was how the promise was stated: “At the appointed time I will return, and Sarah will have a son.”

10 Not only that, but Rebekah’s children were conceived at the same time by our father Isaac.

11 Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad—in order that God’s purpose in election might stand:

12 not by works but by him who calls—she was told, “The older will serve the younger.”

13 Just as it is written: “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”

14 What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all!

15 For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”

16 It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy.

17 For Scripture says to Pharaoh: “I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.”

18 Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.

19 One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?”

20 But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’ ”

21 Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use?

22 What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction?

23 What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory—

24 even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles?

25 As he says in Hosea: “I will call them ‘my people’ who are not my people; and I will call her ‘my loved one’ who is not my loved one,”

26 and, “In the very place where it was said to them, ‘You are not my people,’ there they will be called ‘children of the living God.’ ”

27 Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: “Though the number of the Israelites be like the sand by the sea, only the remnant will be saved.

28 For the Lord will carry out his sentence on earth with speed and finality.”

29 It is just as Isaiah said previously: “Unless the Lord Almighty had left us descendants, we would have become like Sodom, we would have been like Gomorrah.”
Israel’s Unbelief

30 What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith;

31 but the people of Israel, who pursued the law as the way of righteousness, have not attained their goal.

32 Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone.

33 As it is written: “See, I lay in Zion a stone that causes people to stumble and a rock that makes them fall, and the one who believes in him will never be put to shame.”

And this is exactly why Calvinists do not have a proper understanding of election and predestination. So let's look at the relevant verses and examine them in the light to TWO SOLID BIBLE TRUTHS: (1) God desires the salvation of all men and (2) Christ died for the sins of the whole world. OSAS is a totally different subject.

DID GOD ELECT JACOB FOR SALVATION, OR WAS IT FOR THE TWELVE TRIBES OF ISRAEL?
11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth. 12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. 13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

If you know anything about the history of Esau, Jacob, and Isaac, you will know that even though Jacob was a deceiver and a supplanter, eventually he became a man of faith. God's foreknowledge was therefore at work when God elected Jacob, knowing that one day Christ would name Jacob "Israel" (a prince with God and men). And that the twelve tribes of Israel would inherit the land promised to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. God also saw that Esau would never be a believer, and that Edom (descendants of Esau) would be bitter enemies of Israel. So this had nothing to do with electing Jacob for salvation and electing Esau for damnation.

DID GOD ELECT PHARAOH FOR DAMNATION OR DID PHARAOH CONDEMN HIMSELF?
For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.

God "raised up" Pharaoh by allowing this evil man to become ruler in Egypt. rather than just cutting him down. Then we see that God gave Pharaoh opportunity after opportunity to repent. That shows that God did not arbitrarily damn Pharaoh. First it was Pharaoh who hardened his heart (Exod 7:22; 8:15,19,32; 9:7 ) and eventually God hardened Pharaoh's heart (Exod 9:12). God gives the wicked many opportunities to repent before he hardens their hearts? Why BECAUSE GOD TAKES NO PLEASURE IN THE DEATH OF THE WICKED (Ezek 18:23).

DOES GOD ELECT SOME FOR DAMNATION OR DOES HE GIVE THEM OPPORTUNITIES TO REPENT?
What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

Notice "endured with much longsuffering". What does that mean? Does it not mean that while He is holding back His wrath they are getting time to repent? Did not the world have 120 years to repent under the preaching of Noah? And does not Scripture say that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance? But once again, in God's foreknowledge, He already knows who will choose to become "fitted for destruction". The parable of the fig tree and why it was not cut down immediately speaks of God giving unbelieving Israel three years to repent. But they almost all hardened their hearts and rejected Christ.

So Calvinists VIOLATE Gospel truth to justify their false doctrines of election and predestination. The Bible says that God now commands ALL MEN EVERYWHERE to repent (Acts 17:30). Which means that all may be saved if all will repent.

Why do you claim that the brother, Esau, never became a believer. He eventually accepted God's choice of Jacob and was blessed because he deferred to and gave pre-eminence to Jacob. They ended up having an amicable relationship. Esau's descendants not so much, so that eventually, after they had persistently taken up arms against Jacob/Israel, God hated them and handed them over to their physical and spiritual enemies.

Because that is what the Bible says. Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright. For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears. (Heb 12:16,17)

Yes. Esau was reconciled to Jacob, but the truth is stated above. And Edom remained a bittern enemy of Israel. Some of the Arabs who are presently enemies of Israel have descended from the Edomites.

I would understand that as saying that He was unable to get God to repent of passing over him for Isaac, though he sought God's repentance with tears in the immediate aftermath of his giving the birthright away. I don't see why it must be an absolute statement regarding Esau's permanent state.

• So then He has mercy on whomever He wills, and he hardens whomever He wills. Rom 9:18
  
• And he answered them, “To you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given. Matt 13:11
  
• At that time Jesus declared, “I thank you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that you have hidden these things from the wise and understanding and revealed them to little children; yes, Father, for such was your gracious will. Matt 11:25-26

God does not treat all people the same. He hardened Pharaoh's heart so that he was unable to repent. He did this to glorify himself, to show forth his power to all mankind. Was Pharaoh given time to repent – YES was he able to - NO

Every man is ABLE to repent. Otherwise God would not command ALL MEN EVERYWHERE to repent. I already quoted that Scripture, but you failed to take note of what it is telling you about your false beliefs.

If for God mercy triumphs over judgement, can God's "righteous justice" sometimes be exercised punitively, but completely neglect any attempt to include restorative measures to heal the broke relationships? Or in judging is God always looking for ways to restore a sinful person to a truthful and loving relationship with God and others? Can "righteous justice" sometimes be exercised restoratively, but completely neglect any punishment for the misdemeanours involved?

He also tells everyone to obey His commands. But that is not possible, even among His own people. Sin clings to everyone!

That something had not yet happened does not mean it was impossible. God said it was possible. Who are you, O man, to contradict God. And Jesus managed to do it perfectly.

Salvation begins the moment we receive, by faith, God’s offer of forgiveness through the death and resurrection of His Son, Jesus. Jesus called it being “born again” In repenting and giving up our old life, we receive the new life Jesus purchased for us with His blood We are washed clean, and God chooses to remember our sins no more (Psa 103:12) . But we soon notice that our propensity to sin is still part of us. How can that be, since we are new creatures in Christ? We still sin because we, though forgiven, are still fallen human beings.

1John 2

My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.

However you are correct in that:
When Jesus died on the cross, he paid the penalty of sin for all who believe in him. He died for your past, present and future sin.

This is indeed undeserved grace!!

Maybe you no longer sin. However, I feel the need to confess my inability to live as I should over and over!

He bore the sin and was a propitiation for the sins of the whole world, not just those who believe in Him.

John 1:29¶The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.


1 John 2:2And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

25Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation, through faith in his blood to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

All scriptures must harmonize in order to understand the doctrine that Jesus taught.

Your misinterpretation of 2 Pet 3:9 contradicts Dan 4:35. All the inhabitants of the earth are repuded as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in then army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth; and nine can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

If it were God's will to eternally save all mankind, he has the power to do it, and he would do it. check out all of the many scriptures where God states "I will". God, speaking of David, says "he shall fulfil all my will". Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of his children, by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will. Phip 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and do of his good pleasure. Eph 1:9 Having made known to us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure.

2 Pet 3:9 In the 2 Pet 1:1 it tells us who Peter is speaking to, which is to them that have obtained like precious faith indicating that they were already born again. Peter is giving them a warning, even including himself by using the word "us-ward", that when they commit a sin, they perish=die=seperate themselves from God's fellowship, until all of them repent.

No, every man is not able to repent even though all are commanded to do so, but neither do all men have a desire, an esteem, nor a regard for true repentance - nevertheless, God in His mercy warns all to repent. Repentance, and the desire for it, are only realized when they come upon someone as a gift from God, which gift, is given only to those whom He has chosen to salvation being a byproduct of salvation, with repentance a repentance unto Christ, spiritually imputed unto/within them by God, for Christ is Truth.

[2Ti 2:25 KJV] 25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

[2Th 2:10-13 KJV]
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

Perhaps from Acts 11?

16Then I remembered the word of the Lord, as He used to say, ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’ 17So if God gave them the same gift He gave us who believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I to hinder the work of God?” 18When they heard this, their objections were put to rest, and they glorified God, saying, “So then, God has granted even the Gentiles repentance unto life.”

I would never compare my abilities to Jesus. Also, Jesus was not within the fallen state of all mankind!

By whjat mechanism, when you accuse someone of something of making you angry, did they/it make you angry? Did they sovereignly put anger into your heart? Or did they do something that you, because of the habits you have formed over time, reacted to with anger? Did you have no choice in your active response? Or did you also make yourself angry by analysing the event in the particular way you did, ratherthn in a way that would insoire you to be patient and long-suffering.?

God hardened Pharaoh's heart by incessantly demanding He let the people go. Pharaoh hardened his own heart by choosing to interpret God's demands as threats to his status and his national economy. Yes, God kept doing what He expected would cause Pharaoh to become more stubborn, and so hjardened Pharaoh's heart. But Pharaoh did not have to dig his toes in. He could have acquiesced as Cyrus did.

Neither was Adam. But Adam sinned. So sin cannot be blamed on the free-willed creature's nature.

God cannot do something unjust / evil.. God cannot save an unrepentant sinner who is against the revealed will of God.. So i disagree with the above statement.. If God just granted everyone entry into eternity with Him then he would show Himself to be corrupt to the heavenly Host and this give satan amunition to attack Gods legitimacy as the one and only God of all existence..

You said - "Faith is God's gift..."
Faith isn't even mentioned in that text. The gift there is the gift of the promised Holy Spirit who gave Cornelius the gift of tongues.