The battle of Gog and Magog before the Millennium?

There are some who believe that Ezekiel 38 will be fulfilled in our lifetime because of the conflict in the Middle East. But since Gog and Magog are mentioned after the Millennium in Revelation 20, we need to place that battle where it belongs.

REVELATION 20: GOG AND MAGOG
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

So now it is necessary to harmonize this with Ezekiel 38.

1. Israel is not at rest at present and does not dwell safely. But during the Millennium it will be at rest and dwelling safely: And thou shalt say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages; I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates... Therefore, son of man, prophesy and say unto Gog, Thus saith the Lord GOD; In that day when my people of Israel dwelleth safely, shalt thou not know it? (Ezek 38:11,14)

2. God will be directly involved in defeated Gog and Magog and all the nations gathered against Israel. At present God is not directly involved with unbelieving Israel: And it shall come to pass at the same time when Gog shall come against the land of Israel, saith the Lord GOD, that my fury shall come up in my face. For in my jealousy and in the fire of my wrath have I spoken, Surely in that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel... And I will plead against him with pestilence and with blood; and I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon the many people that are with him, an overflowing rain, and great hailstones, fire, and brimstone. (Ezek 38:18,19,22) The fire of God's wrath is also mentioned in Revelation.

Satan is loosed out of prison at this time, but Satan is also finally cast into Hell (the Lake of Fire) after this battle. What is puzzling is that so many nations will be deceived at that time. Which tells us that we do not really have the full picture regarding the Millennium.

You have it right!

Good points. People will be deceived when Satan is released because they still have the sin nature. It seems to me that we have little idea of the depths of depravity of fallen man. This will be revealed at the end. 1,000 years of the best society it is possible to have, and still fallen man rebels against God at the first opportunity.

I believe the Gog magog battle will happen at the end of the 1000 year kingdom.. 1000 years after the return of the LORD Jesus to earth..

God can give people over to deception and strong delusions because they do not have love for the truth.. It's not so much that satan is some awesome deceiver, It is more to do with God setting people up for judgement..

The following verses i believe talks of the time just before the return of Jesus when the anti-christ will deceive the world, Note how and why God sets the people up for this deception..

(2 Thessalonians 2:8-12) "And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: {9} Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, {10} And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. {11} And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: {12} That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness."

I believe this was the same kind of delusion God inflicted upon Pharaoh when he repeatedly refused to let the Hebrew people leave Egypt.. Even after just a couple of those trials that God caused upon Egypt anyone with a clear mind would have let the Hebrews go.. But Pharaoh persisted even to the extent of entering into the parted sea to pursue Moses and the Hebrews. We can see this as a kind of madness.. And i believe this kind of lack of clear thinking is to be inflicted upon people who will worship the image of the beast and at the end of the 1000 years in the minds of those who follow satan in his final vain rebellion against the Prince of peace in Jerusalem..

Question: I’m studying the end-time battles. I‘m seeing the battles of Hamon-gog and Armageddon as PREmillennial at the 7th trump and the battle of Gog and Magog as POSTmillennial. So are the battles of Hamon-gog and Gog and Magog two distinct battles at two different times? I think so.

Hamon-gog (the battle of EZEKIEL 39)
WHERE: in a field Ezekiel 39:5 “Thou shalt fall upon the open field.”
WHEN: at the 7th Trump/pre-millennial
WHO: ”I will give unto Gog a place there of graves in Israel" God‘s battle.

Thou shalt fall upon the open field: for I have spoken it, saith the Lord GOD. And I will send a fire on Magog, and among them that dwell carelessly in the isles: and they shall know that I am the LORD. So will I make my holy name known in the midst of my people Israel; and I will not let them pollute my holy name any more: and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, the Holy One in Israel. And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will give unto Gog a place there of graves in Israel, the valley of the passengers on the east of the sea: and it shall stop the noses of the passengers: and there shall they bury Gog and all his multitude: and they shall call it The valley of Hamongog. And seven months shall the house of Israel be burying of them, that they may cleanse the land. Yea, all the people of the land shall bury them; and it shall be to them a renown the day that I shall be glorified, saith the Lord GOD.

- Ezekiel 39:5-7,11-13 (KJV)

Armageddon (Revelation 16:17)
WHERE: Mount Megiddo, Jerusalem
WHEN: 7th trump, premillennial (Vials/ Wrath of God poured out) Rev16:17 “it is done”
WHO: Rev 16:14 "to gather them to the battle of that great DAY of God Almighty"/God's battle.

For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty. Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame. And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon. And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done. And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great. And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

- Revelation 16:14-19 (KJV)

Gog and Magog (REVELATION 20)
WHERE: the beloved City - Rev 20:9 “and the beloved city”
WHEN: postmillennial/after the millennium - Rev 20:7 “when the thousand years are expired”
WHO: Rev 20: 9 "and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them"

And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

- Revelation 20:7-11 (KJV)

They have healed also the hurt of the daughter of my people slightly, saying, Peace, peace; when there is no peace.

- Jeremiah 6:14 (KJV)

Nehemiah6, this is really good information. Israel is in need of some rest after fighting this war against Hamas, so yes you are right. The God Magaog war would have to be a time from now. I don't understand all of it but your information seems to line up, thanks and blessings

Let me tell you my take on Revelation 20 and Ezekiel 38.

1) I don't think the two chapters are linked. I don't think Ezekiel 38 is about the millennium at all. Why do you think it is?

2) Revelation 19 ends with Jesus coming on his white horse, rather than a donkey, as the conquering hero at his second coming. Revelation 20-22 is another vision like the one John was given in Revelation 12, beginning with his first coming and ending with the new universe and all believers coming down to the new earth.

3) If Revelation 20 starts a new vision, Jesus captures Satan and confines him where he can't deceive the nations. What does that statement mean? I think it means that Satan cannot use the nations to stop the gospel from going out to all of them, and he can't stop God from saving people from all cultures who are his own.

4) Therefore, the 1,000 years is a symbolic period of time between Jesus' two comings, since every number is figurative: 3 and 10, complete numbers; 7, God's number; and 6, the human number. Therefore, 10 x 10 x 10 is a complete number of years between Jesus' two comings.

5) Whoever is right, we can all be pan-millennialists. That is, it'll all pan out!!

Which has been done before such as Adam living in "paradise" or Isrrael freed from slavery...both sin and rebel despite their good or bettered living situations.

Agreed.


The battles in Rev 19 & 20 are not the same battle and not fought at the same time or same location or by the same armies.

Amil believes the two battles are the same battle repeated but is that true?

1.

Battle at Armageddon:

This battle involves Satan, the beast and the false prophet and their armies.

Battle at Jerusalem:

This battle only includes Satan and his Gog Magog armies. The beast and FP are not part of this battle because they are in the LOF, Rev 20:10.


2.

Battle at Armageddon:

Location is 66 miles from Jerusalem.

Battle at Jerusalem:

Location is at Jerusalem.


3.

Battle at Armageddon:

Christ and his army on white horses and the enemy is killed by the symbolic sword of his mouth with vultures eating the dead.

Battle at Jerusalem:

Christ and his army are not involved, no sword or vultures eating the dead. The army is killed by fire from God the Father in heaven and are burned to death.


4.

Battle at Armageddon:

The beast and false prophet are cast into the lake of fire. Satan is cast into the pit not the lake of fire.

Battle at Jerusalem:

The beast and false prophet are already in the lake of fire before this battle begins. Only Satan is cast into the lake of fire where the beast and false prophet already are.


5.

Battle at Armageddon:

Two armies meet there. Christ's army meets the army of the beast and false prophet.

Battle at Jerusalem:

One army meets there. Satan's Gog and Magog army does not meet another army at Jerusalem.


Armageddon is not found in Rev 20. Armageddon happens at the second coming and is a place where the armies of the beast meet the army of Christ from heaven. The armies are led by satan, the beast and false prophet. The beast's army is slain by Christ with a symbolic sword. This is before the thousand years.



In Rev 20 satan (not the beast or the beast's army) goes and raises a fresh army and takes them not to Armageddon (a valley 66 miles from Jerusalem) but takes them to Jerusalem and they do not meet Christ or his army or any army at all. This army is led by satan alone because the beast and false prophet were cast into the LOF long ago at the battle of Armageddon. They are killed by God the Father who rains fire down upon them. This happens after the thousand years.


Conclusion:

Battle at Armageddon fought at a different time, a different place, with different armies, and different ways the enemy army is slain and the one doing the slaying is different.

The battle at Armageddon is not the battle at Jerusalem.
The battle at Jerusalem is not the battle at Armageddon.


The details always prove Amill's positions wrong. They ignore the details while Premill notices the details and takes them into consideration which is proper exegesis. Premill accepts what is written where Amill changes, ignores, or redefines what is written to make it appear to say something else. Time and time again we see Amill doing these things and we have it here again. Amill claims both battles are two different perspectives of the same battle yet all the details conflict. Nothing matches at all. It's like saying the civil war and WW2 are the same war just two different perspectives. Sorry, but they happened at different times, different places and different enemies and results and causalities.

Not even close. The first coming was LONG before the thousand year period. Jesus' second coming happens before the thousand years even starts and there is no other coming after the period ends. The thousand years is a literal period of years, The Greek word used is a number that means exactly a thousand of something, no more or less is possible.

Israel is not at rest at present and does not dwell safely. But during the Millennium it will be at rest and dwelling safely.

Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

This battle happens at the end of the millennial reign because the saints ruled with Christ for a 1000 years.

Eze 38:8 After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them.

This battle happens before the millennial reign starts.

This says they go against the people who have been gathered out of the nations who is Israel which happened before the millennial reign which when the one world government happens it will pave the way for all Hebrews to go to Israel for the Gentile nations will see to it, and none of them will be left in the nations.

Eze 38:16 And thou shalt come up against my people of Israel, as a cloud to cover the land; it shall be in the latter days, and I will bring thee against my land, that the heathen may know me, when I shall be sanctified in thee, O Gog, before their eyes.

Also God said He would be sanctified in the sight of many nations, and the heathen shall know Him, but that happens at the beginning of the millennial reign.

It says the heathen shall know God but at the end of the millennial reign the heathen already know God which He made that clear at the beginning of the millennial reign when Jesus and the saints are ruling over them.

Also whenever it states the latter days it is speaking of the time frame before the millennial reign.

Eze 38:18 And it shall come to pass at the same time when Gog shall come against the land of Israel, saith the Lord GOD, that my fury shall come up in my face.
Eze 38:22 And I will plead against him with pestilence and with blood; and I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon the many people that are with him, an overflowing rain, and great hailstones, fire, and brimstone.
Eze 38:23 Thus will I magnify myself, and sanctify myself; and I will be known in the eyes of many nations, and they shall know that I am the LORD.

God uses more than only fire when going against them which at the end of the millennial reign He only uses fire.

And He will known in the eyes of many nations but at the end of the millennial reign He is already known by them.

Eze 39:1 Therefore, thou son of man, prophesy against Gog, and say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:
Eze 39:2 And I will turn thee back, and leave but the sixth part of thee, and will cause thee to come up from the north parts, and will bring thee upon the mountains of Israel.

God will leave a sixth of the people which Jesus and the saints will rule over them, but at the end of the millennial reign He does not leave any of them.

Eze 39:21 And I will set my glory among the heathen, and all the heathen shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them.
Eze 39:22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward.
Eze 39:23 And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against me, therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword.
Eze 39:24 According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions have I done unto them, and hid my face from them.

God sets His glory among the heathen at the beginning of the millennial reign, and all through the millennial reign the heathen know Him, which the LORD shall be King over all the Earth, and in that day there shall be one LORD, and His name one, and the Earth shall be filled with the knowledge of the LORD.

Ezekiel 38, 39, only fits at the beginning of the millennial reign.

That is incorrect. You are confusing the battle of Armageddon (before the Millennium) with the battle of Gog and Magog (after the Millennium). And Gog and Magog are only found in Ezekiel 38:2 and Revelation 20:8 (which connects them both). So that shoots down your theory. Then we have this in Ezek 39:26
After that they have borne their shame, and all their trespasses whereby they have trespassed against me, when they dwelt safely in their land, and none made them afraid.

Ezekiel 39:25-29 (KJV)
Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name; After that they have borne their shame, and all their trespasses whereby they have trespassed against me, when they dwelt safely in their land, and none made them afraid. When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations; Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there. Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.

When His people, "Israel," realize that they have been worshiping the false messiah (the Antichrist), they will be extremely ashamed. This will be happening at the sounding of the 7th trump as the Millennium begins. The house of Israel will be fully restored during the Millennium, and the Lord God will always be with His people.

I respect your position. I've believed that idea too. However, I pointed out the numbers that are figurative in Revelation. Doesn't that fact make the 1,000 figure at least possibly figurative too? On the other hand, it'll all pan out!!

I respect your position too, since I've been there. However, a the actual, literal thousand-year period is not mentioned anywhere in the Old Testament, including here in Ezekiel 39. It'll all pan out!!

I definitely respect your position. But where do you find the actual, literal 1,000-year period referred to in the Old Testament. Instead, you have references to 1,000 years being like a day, a day like 1,000 years with God. But it'll all pan out.

Show me the passages that connect the 1,000-year period with Israel's safety.