The battle of Gog and Magog before the Millennium?

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Nov 15, 2023
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#61
All theological positions believe the Earth is inhabited by sinners during the thousand years so mentioning Premill doesn't help make any point and since it aligns with what scripture says, it is not a "problem" as you claim.
Then, you don't know the theological position that I think is most likely, the a-millennial interpretation. Its position is that the millennium is the present, figurative, complete period of time between the first and second comings of Jesus. (10 x 10 x 10). The book appeals to the imagination rather than the reason. Yes, this 1,000 years has plenty of sinners, but it isn't in the distant future.
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
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#62
Yes, this 1,000 years has plenty of sinners, but it isn't in the distant future.
This only confirms what I have already stated is a fact. All theological positions believe the thousand years is populated by sinners.

BTW, we are not in the thousand years yet. Amill is a false doctrine.
 
Nov 15, 2023
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#63
This only confirms what I have already stated is a fact. All theological positions believe the thousand years is populated by sinners.

BTW, we are not in the thousand years yet. Amill is a false doctrine.
If my position is right, the "1,000 years" is now, the complete time between Jesus' two comings. And, yes, it is full of sinners.
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
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#64
If my position is right, the "1,000 years" is now, the complete time between Jesus' two comings. And, yes, it is full of sinners.

John placed the real Millennium as having happened after the dead resurrected. There's no dead people alive right now. Satan is also not imprisoned and unable to deceive the nations. Your beliefs are the Pretrib of the Millennial-timing world, unsupported by any scripture.
 
Nov 15, 2023
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#65
John placed the real Millennium as having happened after the dead resurrected. There's no dead people alive right now. Satan is also not imprisoned and unable to deceive the nations. Your beliefs are the Pretrib of the Millennial-timing world, unsupported by any scripture.
Yes, vast numbers of dead people are coming alive now with the miracle of the new birth leading to their souls' living with God in heaven like my late wife's soul. My views are a-millennialism, but I may be wrong. We'll find out. You can google that view to find out more about it.
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
5,074
1,278
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#66
Yes, vast numbers of dead people are coming alive now with the miracle of the new birth leading to their souls' living with God in heaven like my late wife's soul.
That's called being born again. A resurrection is different, involving those who have physically died being brought back to physical life.

My views are a-millennialism, but I may be wrong. We'll find out. You can google that view to find out more about it.
It's a false doctrine. I recommend studying the true one, Premill, and avoiding Amill at all costs.
 
Nov 15, 2023
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#67
That's called being born again. A resurrection is different, involving those who have physically died being brought back to physical life.



It's a false doctrine. I recommend studying the true one, Premill, and avoiding Amill at all costs.
It's a different interpretation, not a false doctrine. Who determined that pre-mil. was the only true doctrine? No one. The verse in question follows in Revelation 20:4b,5. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection.
Thus, the first resurrection is a coming to life, which is also what the new birth is. And the souls of the saints (believers) are now reigning with Christ. Why do you say that I avoid it "at all costs"?
 

vassal

Well-known member
Jan 20, 2024
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#68
There are some who believe that Ezekiel 38 will be fulfilled in our lifetime because of the conflict in the Middle East. But since Gog and Magog are mentioned after the Millennium in Revelation 20, we need to place that battle where it belongs.

REVELATION 20: GOG AND MAGOG
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.


So now it is necessary to harmonize this with Ezekiel 38.

1. Israel is not at rest at present and does not dwell safely. But during the Millennium it will be at rest and dwelling safely: And thou shalt say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages; I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates... Therefore, son of man, prophesy and say unto Gog, Thus saith the Lord GOD; In that day when my people of Israel dwelleth safely, shalt thou not know it? (Ezek 38:11,14)

2. God will be directly involved in defeated Gog and Magog and all the nations gathered against Israel. At present God is not directly involved with unbelieving Israel: And it shall come to pass at the same time when Gog shall come against the land of Israel, saith the Lord GOD, that my fury shall come up in my face. For in my jealousy and in the fire of my wrath have I spoken, Surely in that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel... And I will plead against him with pestilence and with blood; and I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon the many people that are with him, an overflowing rain, and great hailstones, fire, and brimstone. (Ezek 38:18,19,22) The fire of God's wrath is also mentioned in Revelation.

Satan is loosed out of prison at this time, but Satan is also finally cast into Hell (the Lake of Fire) after this battle. What is puzzling is that so many nations will be deceived at that time. Which tells us that we do not really have the full picture regarding the Millennium.

The prophecy about "GOG and MAGOG " is a dual prophecy, the one mentioned in Ezekiel 38 is for the end days (soon) and the one in revelation is clearly after the millennial kingdom after second advent of Christ. They are almost the same but the time frame is different, the current events seem to be matching this verse, I am still studying the prophecy of Ezekiel it is a complex one at that;

Ezk 38:15 And you will come from your place out of the far north—you and many peoples with you, all riding horses—a mighty horde, a huge army.

Ezk 38:16 You will advance against My people Israel like a cloud covering the land. It will happen in the latter days, O Gog, that I will bring you against My land, so that the nations may know Me when I show Myself holy in you before their eyes.

Ezk 38:17 This is what the Lord GOD says: Are you the one of whom I have spoken in former days through My servants, the prophets of Israel, who in those times prophesied for years that I would bring you against them?

Ezk 38:18 Now on that day when Gog comes against the land of Israel, declares the Lord GOD, My wrath will flare up.

Ezk 38:19 In My zeal and fiery rage I proclaim that on that day there will be a great earthquake in the land of Israel.

More later, i still need to or at least try to identify who the "many peoples" in Ezek 38:15 are.
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
5,074
1,278
113
#69
It's a different interpretation, not a false doctrine. Who determined that pre-mil. was the only true doctrine? No one. The verse in question follows in Revelation 20:4b,5. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection.
Thus, the first resurrection is a coming to life, which is also what the new birth is.

No, it's a coming BACK TO LIFE and it is not a new birth. Those beheaded saints were ALREADY BORN AGAIN CHRISTIANS before they died so the only possible resurrection left for them to haver is the much prophesied dead-coming-back-to-physical-life resurrection.
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,705
113
#70
There are some who believe that Ezekiel 38 will be fulfilled in our lifetime because of the conflict in the Middle East. But since Gog and Magog are mentioned after the Millennium in Revelation 20, we need to place that battle where it belongs.

REVELATION 20: GOG AND MAGOG
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.


So now it is necessary to harmonize this with Ezekiel 38.

1. Israel is not at rest at present and does not dwell safely. But during the Millennium it will be at rest and dwelling safely: And thou shalt say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages; I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates... Therefore, son of man, prophesy and say unto Gog, Thus saith the Lord GOD; In that day when my people of Israel dwelleth safely, shalt thou not know it? (Ezek 38:11,14)

2. God will be directly involved in defeated Gog and Magog and all the nations gathered against Israel. At present God is not directly involved with unbelieving Israel: And it shall come to pass at the same time when Gog shall come against the land of Israel, saith the Lord GOD, that my fury shall come up in my face. For in my jealousy and in the fire of my wrath have I spoken, Surely in that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel... And I will plead against him with pestilence and with blood; and I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon the many people that are with him, an overflowing rain, and great hailstones, fire, and brimstone. (Ezek 38:18,19,22) The fire of God's wrath is also mentioned in Revelation.

Satan is loosed out of prison at this time, but Satan is also finally cast into Hell (the Lake of Fire) after this battle. What is puzzling is that so many nations will be deceived at that time. Which tells us that we do not really have the full picture regarding the Millennium.
Yes. So many have confused this with the Battle of Armageddon, which is 1000 years earlier...

Rev 16:
16And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
17And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
 
Nov 15, 2023
97
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#71
The prophecy about "GOG and MAGOG " is a dual prophecy, the one mentioned in Ezekiel 38 is for the end days (soon) and the one in revelation is clearly after the millennial kingdom after second advent of Christ. They are almost the same but the time frame is different, the current events seem to be matching this verse, I am still studying the prophecy of Ezekiel it is a complex one at that;

Ezk 38:15 And you will come from your place out of the far north—you and many peoples with you, all riding horses—a mighty horde, a huge army.

Ezk 38:16 You will advance against My people Israel like a cloud covering the land. It will happen in the latter days, O Gog, that I will bring you against My land, so that the nations may know Me when I show Myself holy in you before their eyes.

Ezk 38:17 This is what the Lord GOD says: Are you the one of whom I have spoken in former days through My servants, the prophets of Israel, who in those times prophesied for years that I would bring you against them?

Ezk 38:18 Now on that day when Gog comes against the land of Israel, declares the Lord GOD, My wrath will flare up.

Ezk 38:19 In My zeal and fiery rage I proclaim that on that day there will be a great earthquake in the land of Israel.

More later, i still need to or at least try to identify who the "many peoples" in Ezek 38:15 are.
 
Nov 15, 2023
97
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18
#72
Yeah, it's very hard to interpret prophesies before they are fulfilled. Then, it's easy.:)