TEMPLE......TO BE OR NOT TO BE....THAT IS MY QUESTION!!!!!

Just to let you know

the song of moses was sung by the children of Isreal following there deliverance from Egyptian bondage, in exodus 15:1-8

But guess what the same song will be sang in end times during tribulation in rev 15:1-18 by those in celebration of the lamb of God for delivering them from bondage of Sin into the celestial kingdom
😊

“when Jesus was killed the authority of priesthood was taken from the earth, because satan was then given the power to accuse Gods children day and night. “

im not sure I understand what your saying here he had been accusing them day and night before God , but that’s talking about Satan the beast isn’t Satan he is a servant of Satan .

you know how Daniel sees this

“And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.

The first was like a lion, ….And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear, ….After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard, ….the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it.

After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.”
‭‭Daniel‬ ‭7:3-7‬ ‭

Ok Daniel saw four beasts , looking like a lion a bear and a leopard one having four heads so this makes seven heads and the fourth has ten horns if you put that imagery together

“And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭13:1-3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Daniel is told this about the beasts he saw

“These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth.

….Then I would know the truth of the fourth beast, which was diverse from all the others, exceeding dreadful, whose teeth were of iron, and his nails of brass; which devoured, brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with his feet; and of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell;

even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows. I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;

Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings. And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.”
‭‭Daniel‬ ‭7:17, 19-21, 23-25‬ ‭KJV‬‬

John sees this

“And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. ( 3 and a half years )

And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. If any man have an ear, let him hear.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭13:5-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The key is to understand daniel is seeing this at the beginning when Babylon is rising up the first head of the beast in 600 bc then media Persia overthrow Babylon for a time they had power but it wasn’t as vast as nebucadnezzars had been then Greece and Alexander the Great who have conquered and unified basically the entire ancient world .

When John is alive and seeing his vision rome is in power when he is explained he’s told that five of the kings had already in the past fallen . John is seeing the same things but at the end when the seventh head was about to come to power

“And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns. And there are seven kings: five are fallen,( they were in johns past ) and one is, ( this one was currently ruling in johns time )

and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.( the last was about to rise in johns immediate future and his reign would be short , most likely Nero )

And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition. And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast. These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of Lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.


And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire. For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭17:7, 10-14, 16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Daniel 7 was a dream yes.
The beasts that came up from the ground where not physical in the flesh, they where beasts yes, but they where all Satan's and each satan representing a spiritual kingdoms in spirit in a dream.

They where all in unity as one with satan all one purpose to wage the same war on earth as in heaven, to devour souls through accusing day and night to lure souls to him.

Daniel was seeing the prophecy for what was to come but he was seeing the spiritual aspect of it, and he needed the angel to interpret the dream.

He was seeing the ability of satan and satans to appear as what ever they could in spirit plain and simple.

He was also seeing the tribulation getting greater and the satans getting ready to accuse Gods children day and night.

Just as Jesus identified it at the top of the mountain, where satan accused Jesus and showed him these same kingdoms. Jesus was showing us the prophecy of Daniel being fulfilled

The plans of satan was to make people belief any sin they had commited would make them worthy of no return.

This is why he would accuse Gods children day and night, to make them feal they had no place in heaven and to then turn there conscious into one of turning from the lord to him.

The battle of souls is the great tribulation,

In revaluation we read that the only people who will sing the song of moses are the people who will overcome the beast in tribulation.

It says it plain and simple in revelation those who inherit the celestial kingdom are those who overcome the beast. Which means tribulation for all Christians an no rapture into the celestial kingdom until the beast has had the seven bowls chucked on his head

The beast is more than one kingdom but one kingdom on earth

But all kingdoms are one of Satan. And will be chucked into the fire.

But the souls that get devoured by satan will not escape the fire they will go in to

The souls that get devoured by satan will be those who are not in bondage to sin because they couldn't care less

As Christian we are free from the power that sins sting has on us which is death,

but we are not free from the bondage of Sin. We will only be free from the bondage of Sin untill we sing the song of moses together as one family

The bondage of Sin remains until we see his celestial kingdom.

I believe what the Bible teaches.

There are 2 resurrections and one is for the righteous and the other is for the unrighteous.

Joh 5: 28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Seperated by the 1000 years.

Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

So the righteous saved will be with Christ for the thousand years and the rest do not live until the the thousand years are finished.

Remember that Revelation is written in a chiastic structure....
We see a description of the Holy city in chap 21, and 22
This is not possible for man to do..
Only God can create a city like this.

This city comes after the 1000 years are finished.
Rev 22:5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

Rev 21:1
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

After reading this and all the verses it tells me that at the first resurrection the saints are taken to be with Jesus in heaven in the new Jerusalem and after the 1000 years the second resurrection takes place.

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

At the coming of Jesus judgement is done... those that are saved are saved, those that are lost are lost. Judgement has finished.

And we are told that the saved go to be with Jesus in heaven.
The harvest.
Joh 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

The save go to be with Jesus after the 1st resurrection. The saved are in heaven for 1000 years and then the second resurrection.

So to answer the question. The Bible teaches a future heavenly millenium, followed by the new heaven and earth.

Hi TMS, I have a question, in view of what you've put ^ (especially the part I've bolded).


How do you see the wording found in Revelation 5:9-10, where it says:

--[v.9] "...hast redeemed US to God by thy blood out-of EVERY kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;"

--[v.10, being said of those ^ already-awarded/rewarded persons ^ ] "and You have made them a kingdom and priests to our God; and they will [future tense] reign upon the earth."




Why, in your view, is this saying this particular thing about reigning [future-tense] ON THE EARTH" if it is as you suggest, that it will be a "heavenly millennium" (as opposed to being located "on the earth"--with "subjects" [persons being reigned over--such as Rev19:15b speaks to (ditto Rev2:26-27a), etc]).

Is it your view that Rev19 (along with v.15b) is not depicting His "RETURN" to the earth (paralleling passages such as Lk19:12,15,17,19... speaking of His "RETURN"... when He will deal out responsibilities like, "have thou authority over 10 CITIES" and "be thou also over 5 CITIES" ['cities' are on the earth]... and even that's being said to those saints [as mortals] still existing on the earth upon His "return" there...
...like Dan7:22/Rev20:4a speaks to... and Dan12:12's "BLESSED is he that waiteth and COMETH TO the 1335 days"--i.e. survive to the end of the Trib yrs and as saints ENTER the earthly MK age in their mortal bodies [whereas the ones who DIE in the trib will be "resurrected [defined as: 'to stand again' (on the earth)]".)

Your thoughts on this?

Rev 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; 10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

The Lord has saved, by his death, people from every place and nation on Earth.

The saved will be made kings and priests, and they shall reign on the Earth.

The Holy City will come down to Earth after the 1000 years...

Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

When the 1000 years are finished the Holy city and the saved come to earth and God makes all things new. The Earth will a future home for the saved.

So, is it your view that where 1Cor15:25 says,

"For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet" [including the last enemy, "death"--v.26--this LAST being at the GWTj time-slot] takes place during what you are calling a "heavenly millennium," ... and AFTER WHICH, it is then the "saints" will "reign on the earth" (because "the New Jerusalem [/Holy City]" comes down to the earth, for the "New Earth" when God makes all things new)...

Am I reading you right?

When Jesus returns no scripture say that He will touch the ground. No verse states that Jesus will stay...
The Bible states that the wicked will be destroyed by His glory and the brightness of His coming.

Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
2Th 2:8-10 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

Thank you! I understand it, few more questions if you dont mind:

Is the earth just empty of life during the millennium? And who rebels at the end of it? Those who are part of the second resurrection?

The second resurrection happens at the end of the mellenium, read Rev 20:5-7.

The saved will reign with Christ and after the mellenium Satan will be loosed and the wicked will be raised.

Rev 20:8-10
And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, ....
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. 10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, .....

So the devil will gather the wicked and have one last attempt to attack God's and the saved. He fails....

Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

Then God makes all things new....

The reason the devil is bond. Or locked in chains is because He has no one to tempt. The Earth is empty and like a jail for the devil. But when the second resurrection happens the devil is freed for a short time..
Rev 20:7-8 KJV 7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

I cannot see Israel dissolving it's government and implementing the law of Moses. Replacing their politicians with a priesthood descended from Aaron.

The majority of people in Israel don't believe in God. So, I don't think you can convince them to follow the law of Moses and rebuild the temple.

Your eschatology has some problems that you need to address.

Ah I see. This sounds similar to what John Gill believes. If I remember correctly Gill still has God's people on earth, but the idea of the people who rebel being the ones in the second resurrection is shared. Just wanted to let you know you arent alone in this belief. SDA also believe this way if i recall correctly.

Can you lay down your eschatology? Especially regarding 2 Thessalonians 2:4 & Matthew 24:15?

So you don't believe that (enlarged ^ ) occurs at Rev19, when v.21 says "And the remnant WERE SLAIN..." (followed by 20:4a,b [re: saints] FOR the MK age)... and in how Rev19:19,21 / 16:14-16 / 20:5 (the wording in these) parallels the FIRST "PUNISH" word in Isaiah 24:21[,22b being the SECOND "PUNISH" word, occurring LATER--when some "TIME" intervenes between these two--i.e. so at the later GWTj time-slot]); where v.22a "pit" means the humans DIE.

I was thinking that (at top) you had meant that "the wicked will be destroyed by His glory and the brightness of His coming," as in, at the Rev19 time-slot, where it says, "And the armies which were in heaven followed Him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean..." (etc), which is when "EVERY EYE" shall SEE Him" (Rev1:7; 2Th2:8b; Acts 1:11 where His disciples were told "He shall SO COME *in like manner* AS ye have SEEN Him going / traveling / journeying into Heaven");


but I think what you mean (instead) is, that no saints will be standing on the earth upon His "RETURN" which you are saying is AFTER the NH/NE comes into play (i.e. after the 1000 yrs).
So, it kinda sounds like you believe the unsaved "nations" will exist upon the earth for the 1000 years, AFTER Jesus does the swoop-u-turn-and-back-up-to-Heaven in Rev19 (with all "saints"). Do you believe Zech14:15-16's "rule" applies (will apply) to these people?

Am I reading you right?

I fully agree with you on this point!

Satan's AIM / OBJECTIVE is "to deceive" (one last attempt)... but he is squashed at that point (sent to the lake of fire--GWTj time-slot).






[wait, are you saying the wicked that are "raised" is who Satan will go out to attempt to deceive at that point?]

^ ( @TMS ) And so you don't believe this occurs at the Rev19 time-slot[?]:

Zech14:4 - "And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south."

And Job's words in Job 19:25-27 "... and that he shall stand at the latter [/hindermost] day upon the earth" (aka "the seventh 'day / 7th millennium'");
For we see that Ex.31:13&17 says, "17 It [the sabbath [seventh] day] is A SIGN between Me and the children of Israel for ever" and Heb4:9 says [relatedly], "there remaineth THEREFORE a SABBATISMOS to the people of God")

No?

Instead of thinking you are smart. You should so some research.

They have the priests garments. They have all the utensils that go into the temple. They have everything they need (some are planning to actually going to start sacrifice and burnt offering without the temple)

The only thing keeping them from starting is like many people. They are not smart enough to realize the dome of the rock is not the site. It sits on the old fortress Antonia. Because like many religious people, They can not break tradition.

So anyway, as for replacing politicians? The Sanhedrin were not priests.. so they do not have to replace them,

You should worry about the flaws of your own eschatology.

Matthew 24:15-21. Jesus referred to the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet.

In Daniel 11:31, Antiochus IV (we know from historical information) placed a statue image of Zeus in the temple - which in the verse refers to as the abomination of desolation. That historical act of the AoD being a statue image prefigured what the end times abomination of desolation will be - a statue image.

In Daniel 12:11-12 is the time of the end (Daniel 12:9) abomination of desolation "setup".

Therefore the image of the beast-king in Revelation 13:14-15 will be a statue image of him setup on the temple mount. It will be setup out in the open, a place readily seen by them living in Judaea, who Jesus said to flee to the mountains as soon as they see it in Matthew 24:51-21.

Also, out in the open on the temple mount courtyard because the statue image will be turned to ashes when Jesus returns, to expose Satan physically there on the temple mount for all to behold him. Satan will be indwelling the image, making it appear to come to life and speak.

The destruction of the image, and the exposure of Satan, is in Ezekiel 28:16-19.

I appreciate you taking the time to answer. And while you have made your argument from scripture, I still have a couple of questions:
...why doesn't the destruction of the temple in the first century correspond to the scriptures you have given?
...even if you're correct about the AoD, what would keep the use of the statue from being symbolic?

In Daniel 9:26, the destruction of the temple and city is the 70 AD event. Destroyed by the Roman army.

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

Differently, the temple in the end times, yet to be built, will be made desolate (from the worship and praise of God) in Daniel 9:27.

In Daniel 9:27 is the seven years of the end times. There has to be a temple for the daily sacrifice to be stopped in that verse. Once the daily sacrifice is stopped, abominations regrading the temple complex will be what it makes it desolate - even to the consummation of the 70th week.

Then God's judgement will be poured on the temple complex where the abominations will be that will have made it desolate.

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.


The abominations will be the beast-king, the false prophet, the statue image indwelt by Satan. Here is an illustration I made of that day when God's judgment will be poured out on that desolate place, the temple complex.