What if you die before water baptism?

Yeah I think it’s pretty much a constant

If you noticed probably did in scripture Jesus spent alot of his time I. Disputes with the Pharisees and sadducees and keepers of the law and priests

paul also spent alot of time in disputes about doctrine he and Luke who were partners in ministry had such a dispute they parted ways for a time and took on other partners

ashen the subject matter is what someone believes pertaining to the salvation of thier soul …..things can get passionate

i think disagreements are fine even often useful to discern the truth between two opposing ideas sort of for the purpose and process of reconciliation the disagreement need to be considered first so disagreement is perfectly understandable

for me the issue this old fool perceives is when people begin to take personal things or say personal things because of teo positions that aren’t in agreement rather than work to reconcile the ideas to one truth based on the word of God

what I mean ( I’m sorry I’m not good at consise ordered statements ) but what I mean is two people can disagree and be respectful even have genuine affection towards each other and good intentions truly

abut wkso disagreement can lead to bitterness and grudge bearing and childish insults and immature behavior that then leads to issues between two believers who shod lives both of them and calls then brothers and sisters to one another

the issue for me is it seems like some are only here for the purpose of arguing about basic plain things stated clearly in scripture rather than here to discuss the Bible to a good intent of bringing our faith into the same realm and boundaries in the one body of Christ

to me it’s important for us to Remember this isn’t our personal seminary where we’re hear to teach everyone else because they just don’t get it …..but instead it’s a public forum to discuss the subject matter in the Bible , where if the intent is pure towards learning the truth it would be a huge beneficial place

i do t think people come to a public forum to find a seminary but to discuss and work through maybe some things we don’t fully grasp by ourselves

“And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful.

Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.

And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭3:15-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

If there is brotherly love first the intent will be right and the disagreement me would work towards reconciliation

This is a thread for people who believe water baptism is required for salvation, if you aren't that type of person, then obviously you don't need to answer this question, as I know you will just say the man is saved, as water isnt required.

Hypothetical situations that are often brought up by people to argue against baptismal regeneration are:

1. What about someone who is ill, about to die, cries out to God, asks Jesus to save them, will they die lost because they didn't have enough time to get baptized?

2. What about someone who is on a stranded island and has no one to baptize him, dies there, will he die lost?

In my opinion both of these arguments deserve a proper response, which is why I am making this thread. Give me your case, you who believe baptism in water is required for salvation.

PS I hope this thread isnt gonna turn into 50 responses and 0 answers and everyone just saying "Its not required for salvation because of such and such." I get it, I know the arguments both ways, but im just asking our baptismal regeneration people here to answer these. Thank you for understanding.

So if there is a drought you cant be saved. I thought it was faith that saves.

fairy nuff and enuff said 😊

I'm ok with the commandments of the lord really,.I generally listen and take the commandments seriously, and I don't mind being reminded,

I never really question the commandments or argue against them as I don't want to dishonour the word of God.

I see the Sabbath as a name given To the fathers rest

How can you keep the father, 😂

Surely the Sabbath keeps you,

As for the water, i still look to my Jewish brothers and wash my self clean before repentance 😊

Well I kinda just like water.

Well it's more than a ritual because it's a prayer. The water does have the life in it, and has power to keep life and give life in an earthly sense of life.

In a spiritual sense its meaning points towards The living water,

But Does the living holy spirits love live in the water and Did Jesus put is spirit in the water, Well I would like to think so. Jesus created it 😂

The water is pure and clear transparent and clean.

Cleansing and life Giving, and life saving,

The water just keeps giving to life.

You could say there is something about water that has the life in it for sure.

Well you know is the life in the water and can that life wash your sins.

I suppose it could maybe if the confession is sincere 😂

“If you believe that a person is immersed into Christ by the Holy Spirit upon belief like Ephesians 1:13 says, that is a baptism. ( you’ve created this baptism though the bi ke says there is one baptism you are trying to create a different baptism then try to make what scripture says not about the baptism in the Bible but the one your creating are …..you Joseph prince ? )

“ It also helps to understand why baptism isn’t mentioned for the person who believeth not. “

Yes they refuse to believe that baptism is for repentance and the remission of thier sins in Jesus name and was done before and after he died and rose Jesus , his apostles his disciples men and women all heard about baptism for remission of sins and they believed it so they just acted like they did on gods word

If they don’t believe the Holy Spirit would not immerse them into Christ.”

again your whole idea is based on you have created this “ spiritual immersion “ baptism but the Bible teaches there’s one baptism for the remission of sins in Jesus name and says you’ll receive the holy ghost if you believe like this example from the Bible

“Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,

and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Then they that gladly received his word ( they believed what Peter said so they acted on it ) were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:32-

or this example for gentiles

“While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized,

which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:44-48‬ ‭

I don’t have that secret knowledge of this spiritual immersion thing your talking about that means we don’t need to get baptized …. Jesus gives the spirit as he wills to believers in measure baptism is not what that is

but I’m pretty stubborn so

This here is my point. By believing that baptism saves or that there are different ways to salvation which include works, you are following a different gospel. There has always been only one way to salvation.

Ephesians 2:8 - 9
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

But baptism is just an outward manifestation of the faith through which by grace, we have already been saved.

God said something first and we heard and believed it is what power baptism has we believed what he said enough to act because we did hear and believe it we acted in faith because we heard faith

“But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

This should sound like music to The ears of a sinner who believes in Jesus

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Because they know what baptism means

They heard about this

“For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:3KJV‬‬

They believed it so baptism is an act of faith because I believe that and it has meaning im meant to hear and believe

“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death:

that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

For he that is dead is freed from sin. Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:3-7, 11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭2:12‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:26-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

As we hear the word of God without self interpreting it begins to form faith we can know what baptism is but we have to hear what’s really there we’re operating by faith in Gods design

I agree with that passage 100%. So, that verse says not of works . Other translations, the Interlinear, the Greek and the Lexicon say "not as a result of works." That is what the bible says we cannot earn our salvation as a result of our works. I agree with that 100%. I suggest to you men have taken it too far and say without works. The bible doesn't say without works. Man says that.

We can see that from the examples you listed.

Noah, what if he hadn't of built the ark. He would have drowned. It was by God's grace he was saved. God told him of a coming destruction and told him exactly what he needed to do to be saved.

Abraham did many things God told him but lets use the example you mentioned. If Abraham hadn't gotten circumcised, he would have broken God's covenant and there is no telling what God would have done.
The bible tells us this about Abraham.
and I will establish the oath that I swore to Abraham your father. 4 I will multiply your offspring as the stars of heaven and will give to your offspring all these lands. And in your offspring all the nations of the earth shall be blessed, 5 because Abraham obeyed my voice and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.”
Abraham was faithful because he obeyed God.

Moses is a good example that you brought up earlier. If Zipporah or Moses hadn't have circumcised their son, God was going to kill Moses because he broke God's covenant. He didn't earn his life by doing what he should have done in the first place but he sure was going to lose it if he hadn't obeyed.

The bible tells us God will destroy those who do not obey the gospel.
8 in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might,
By obeying we can never earn our salvation but if we do not obey, that passage is what will happen to us.

Here's another one that says the same thing,
John 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.

Maybe this will help. We don't earn our salvation, by obeying we are only doing our duty.
Luke 17:10 So you also, when you have done all that you were commanded, say, ‘We are unworthy servants; we have only done what was our duty.’”

Could you please point me to a verse/passage that tells us that. I'm not aware of one.

thanks I think this is pretty accurate,

Nothing to disagree with for me.

I pretty much recognise the importance in all that you've shared.

Yes I saw it in some of the things you were saying early on when I noticed you hear , saw some of those things I just was talking about so I believe you probably do realize what I’m saying

have you ever noticed how anytime God speaks something into existance it will for sure happen as he’s said it ?

“And God said, Let there be light:

and there was light.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

If he speaks to a person the same principle applies

“And the LORD said unto Moses, Stretch out thine hand toward heaven, that there may be darkness over the land of Egypt, even darkness which may be felt.”

And Moses stretched forth his hand toward heaven; and there was a thick darkness in all the land of Egypt three days:”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭10:22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

If we learn to hear what God has said to us like that and trust what he said even if he’s telling us to lift up our hands I think we could understand faith better

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I believe the creator said that about his creatures .

‭‭to me I think it’s always the same if God speaks something to us and the gospel is spoken to us no matter who we are Jew gentile young old black white ect then it’s going to happen so like Moses baptism is the same process we hear about it what’s it for what’s it mean what did the lord say about it and then a believer is going to actually want to get baptized because of the message like remember this guy ? We should react like this when we hear the message

This is how baptism should actually be

“Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture,( he was sitting reading Isaiah 53 ) and preached unto him Jesus.

And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?

And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him. And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭8:35-39‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We should be happy and rejoicing because of the message of remission of sins that is in Christ Jesus baptism should be something as believers we want to partake of because we’ve heard what the word says about it it holds a message of Jesus death burial and resurrection on our behalf and it is done in his name I can’t imagine who the first guy was who said “we don’t need to get baptized that’s silly “

but it was said long ago

“For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine;

but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; and they shall turn away their ears from the truth,

and shall be turned unto fables.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭4:2-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

yes I know you saw what I was saying and posted scripture to that effect, even tho i hadnt provided scripture 😊

I was hoping you would identify the meaning, and see the scripture without me mentioning it too.

I knew you would 😊

Yeah I try to listen regarding what scripture I’ve been fortunate enough to understand sort of as my guide when listening to someone’s words

At least what scriptures I can understand with my ole worn out brain lol

I'm curious what you think Peter meant in the exchange?

"Save yourselves from this untoward generation. Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine..." Acts 2:40-42

lol nope your as old as creation lol, whatcha talkin about 🤣

I'm not the type of person that you wanted to answer your question, but for those who are, doesn't the bible say more about circumcision being required for entering into a covenant with God than baptism? Why don't such people believe circumcision is required, given that God said circumcision was to be an everlasting covenant, but didn't say that about baptism?

Yeah at least as old as dirt I guess lol

This here is my point. By believing that baptism saves or that there are different ways to salvation which include works, you are following a different gospel. There has always been only one way to salvation.

Ephesians 2:8 - 9
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

That faith may have looked different to different people. Noah built an ark, Abraham got circumcised when he was 99, Moses returned to Egypt and told Pharaoh to let God's people go, we get baptised. But baptism is just an outward manifestation of the faith through which by grace, we have already been saved.