The Atonement: What did it REALLY Accomplish?

You cant reject Gods Gift. One cant reject what Christ has done for them, nor what He does in them

The New Covenant gives those things to the Elect because of the Shed Blood of Christ. They are given Faith

If God imputes the Gift of Righteousness to your account, based upon what Christ did for you by putting away your sins, that Gift cant be rejected, in fact, you dont even know you have it at first. Rom 5:17

For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.

Faith and or Repentance

Faith and or Repentance toward God and or Christ are products of Redemption by the Blood of Christ, and not conditions of it Heb 9:14

14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

Now false teachers would tell us that in order to be redeemed unto God by Christ's blood, one must meet the conditions of faith or repentance, but that is false, for the fact is, one is redeemed in order to repent and or believe on Christ, both faith and repentance are the evidences and consequences of having been redeemed by Christ's blood, for again we read in Rev 5:9-10

9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Now notice carefully in this Praise what is being acknowledged about Christ, "for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests:"

So Repentance toward God and Faith in Christ Acts 20:21 are fruits, evidences, results of Redemption.

After redeeming them by His Blood, they are then made something unto God, its the production of spiritual service, a kingdom of priests, thats the result of redemption by blood, which also fulfills the prediction of Israel the Church Ex 19:6

6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel. 46

You are not addressing the issues raised.

You conflated what is written in Heb 8:10 with what is written in Rom 3:27 in an attempt to claim that one of the "laws" God writes in the heart is the "law of faith".

I pointed out your error in conflating Heb 8 and Rom 3:27 and showed you that the "law of faith" is not a "law" as shown by your good buddy John Gill, as well as providing the Amplified rendering of Romans 3:27:



You also claimed that it is delusional to believe a person can "accept or reject" God's gifts.

I showed you that in addition to rejecting or accepting, those accepting can also mis-utilize God's gifts as shown by what is written in 1 Corinthians 12, 13, and 14 (where Paul wrote to the church in Corinth to correct their mis-utilization of the manifestation of the Spirit).

I also provided Scripture which indicates a believer can grieve the Holy Spirit of God (Eph 4:30) and a believer can quench the Spirit (1 Thes 5:19).

You are unable to address the issues raised ... and rather than search the Scriptures whether these things are so, you fall back to your erroneous dogmatic mantra


Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
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God clearly states that righteousness is imputed when we believe:

Romans 4:

20 He [Abraham] staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he [God] had promised, he [God] was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it was imputed to him [Abraham] for righteousness.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it [righteousness] was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ




The word "receive" in Romans 5:17 is translated from the Greek word lambanō which means actively lay hold of to take or receive, to lay hold by aggressively (actively) accepting what is available ... emphasizes the volition (assertiveness) of the receiver - HELPS Word-studies.
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Exactly. I have told you that there is a different world, than the world of believers as stated in John 3:16, so, now do you believe me. God does not love the world that you are showing me.

Whom the Lord loveth, he chasteneth. and he does not chasten those that he does not love. Psalms 73 will give you more information that he does not love the whole world of mankind, that are not in trouble as other men; neither are they plagued (divinely punished) as other men.

God does not chasten those that he does not love. He uses them to show his power, in such cases as Pharaoh (Rom 9:17)

I think that your problem might be that you are not putting enough searching into your studies to harmonize the scriptures. If they all do not harmonize, you will never understand the doctrine of Jesus Christ. There are too many scriptures that contradict your theory.

Go to a KJV bible and reference Thayer's concordance on the word World. That might help you.

Why would God tell his elect to not love the world that he says he loves? Also, why would God tell his elect to not love the things of the world ? (1 John 2:15-16)

I have already done that, ForestGreenCook. I quoted directly from Thayer's:


see the verses I highlighted in red? That is quoted directly from Thayer's. I also highlighted in red the #5 ... that is Thayer's numbering.

When you quoted from Thayer's, you quoted definition #8 and implied that definition #8 applies to John 3:16 (see your Post 2384). But Thayer's does not reference John 3:16 at definition #8. Thayer's references John 3:16 at definition #5. In fact, at your Post 2384, you claim definition #8 refers to all the verses Thayer's lists at definition #5 (John 1:29, 3:16, 3:17, 6:33, 12:47, 1 Cor 4:9, 2 Cor 5:19).

It appears you need to re-read Thayer's and pay particular attention to the various definitions, as well as the verses Thayer's references those definitions pertain to.
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John did not write to "elect" in 1 John. John did not use the word eklektos at all in 1 John.

Here is what the Author of Scripture told John to write:

1 John 2:

15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

Thayer's references 1 John 2:15-16 as follows:


so 1 John 2:15-16 does not refer to the descendants of Adam as John 3:16 does. 1 John 2:15-16 refers to the systems of the world which are controlled by the prince of this world who is opposed to God and the things of God. The systems of this world are set up to draw people away from God in an effort to entice people to sin against God.
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Anyone that has a theory as to what the doctrine of Jesus Christ is, must understand that if their theory has contradicting scriptures, then their theory is a false one.

Specific word study can help in this endeavor, along with cross referencing the scriptures.

You have referenced the word "world" in John 1:29 as being the whole world of humanity. In cross-referencing the scriptures, does the word "many" in Isaiah 54:11-12, harmonize with "the whole world of humanity"?

Makes us Alive !

Since Christ by His death, has abolished death for all whom He died, they must be made spiritually alive as proof of the same ! By His death alone He took away their sins 1 Jn 3:5

And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

And so by doing, He takes away death, or being dead, because being dead/death is the wages of sin Rom 6:23

23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Another way Paul expresses it is here Rom 5:15

But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

The offence here is sin, and because of it, many be dead, that means dead spiritually, dead to God, dead in sin and trespasses.

But now since Christ has taken away the offences, Justice demands that being made dead for sin is also taken away, which equates to being made alive !

You see, its a cheat upon the death of Christ, for those He died for, and took away their offences, for them to remain spiritually dead, spiritually dead to God, spiritually dead in trespasses and sins, for that would contradict the accomplishment of His Death ! So everyone Christ died for, must be and shall be made spiritually alive, for the only reason why they were made to be dead, was because of the offence Rom 5:15

But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

That offence being taken away 1 Jn 3:5, then being made dead must be taken away, that is Justice ! 46

If the scripture was only to point out the things that are in the world, John would not have stated "Love not the world".

Makes us Alive ! 2

Again, death, to include spiritual and the second death reigns because of sin Rom 5:21

That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

But for those Christ has died for, put away their sins, death no longer has the right to reign over them, that is the eternal second death, nor spiritual death of which they were born in by nature .

If one for whom Christ died does not be made spiritually alive, its like saying Christ did not put away their sins by the sacrifice of Himself, and that He did not by His death abolish death, which scripture states that He did 2 Tim 1:10

10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

This also means that none for whom Christ died can be hurt with the second death Rev 2:11

He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

He that overcometh is simply everyone Christ died for as their Head and Representative !

Here is what I showed you, ForestGreenCook:

You claimed in Post 2384 that the word "world" in John 1:29 is defined by Thayer's definition #8. However, Thayer's definition #8 does not reference any of the verses you claim.

Thayer's definition #8 references James 3:6, Proverbs 17:6, 1 John 2:15.
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In using the word "world" [Greek kosmos] Scripture does not only refer to "the things that are in the world". However, as I already pointed out to you, Thayer's specifically references 1 John 2:15 at definition 7:



1 John 2:

15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

1 John 2:15-16 refers to the systems of the world which are controlled by the prince of this world who is opposed to God and the things of God. The systems of this world are set up to draw people away from God in an effort to entice people to sin against God.


It is so important to read verses of Scripture in the context within which the Author of Scripture has placed them.

It is also vitally important to not conflate what is written in one section of Scripture with what is written in another section of Scripture.
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According to Scripture, the Lord Jesus Christ died for the whole world ... all descendants of Adam.

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

brightfame52 said:

If one for whom Christ died does not be made spiritually alive, its like saying Christ did not put away their sins by the sacrifice of Himself, and that He did not by His death abolish death

Click to expand...

... no it's not.

The Lord Jesus Christ abolished death. Period.

Those who reject the Lord Jesus Christ have no other offering which will take away their sin. The Lord Jesus Christ is the only way. If the Lord Jesus Christ is rejected, their sin remains and they will be judged.




You again rip a verse from the context within which the Author of Scripture has placed it in order to prop up your vain and empty reasonings.

You lifted one verse from the message written in Rev 2:8 - 11:

Revelation 2:

8 And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;

9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.


According to Scripture, He that overcometh is the one who remains faithful in times of tribulation, poverty, blasphemy of others, even if dishonestly cast into prison.


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
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