Predestination is misunderstood...

The adoption is already in progress. The adoption process goes as follows; 1. The Father chooses the child, not the child choosing the Father. 2. The price must be paid, which was paid on the cross. 3. The final phase of the adoption is when the Father takes his chosen children home.

God knew his elected children before he formed the world. His children, get to know him gradually after they have been born again as new born babes in Christ. They are first fed the milk of the word, and as they mature they gain more and more knowledge. If we are student's of the word, we never quit growing in knowledge.

Magenta, correct me if I am wrong, but I understand the scriptures to teach that God gave mankind the freedom to choose the way he wants to live his live here on earth and all mankind choose not to seek him (Psalms 53:1-3)

Don't we become a slave to God after we are born spiritually?

Is that what Galatians says? Let's stick with scripture.

Yes, ideally this is as it should be - what about the "elected children" who are
not becoming mature, but are rebellious?

Scripture please....servant is the biblically description.

According to scripture, how does the Lord know who are his?

1 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

You are exactly right. Thanks for keeping me in line. My wife says that I can concentrate on one subject at a time, and she is correct, but by doing that, at the end I feel that I have researched it completely.

I know what it does not say, and that is God does not know a man until a certain time in his life, and the other statements that you have made that you think Galatians supports.

Lets not only stick with scripture, lets also interpret them right.

He knew them all before he formed the world, and even wrote their names in the book of life (Rev 17:8)

Matt 10:24 among many others.

Hmm ok ok .. I see my self driving and follow ya.. wait.. ok now I have no clue where I am haha.

Were talking about GOD who has always been and with Him its faith "Declaring the end from the beginning" "I am God, and there is none like me. I declare from the beginning how it will end and foretell from the start what has not yet happened. I decree that my purpose will stand, and I will fulfill my every plan. "

Yeah so easy to get lost here. Say I was trying to go to a store I really liked yet every time (I was driving) I tied to get over that traffic stopped me so I ended up going where I didn't want to. Man this whole day is awful. Had to move to an apartment I never wanted. So checking out of the store I smiled to the cashier and went to my "new" pffft apparent.

Every choice here I freely made right? This happened in someones life. Just saying using me. So lets look at what I didn't see. It was God using the traffic so I went to (makes me cry. wow) store I didn't want to where I smiled to a cashier and she thought "ooh must be a Christian I wish I was that happy" where that next weekend because of a simple smile she found Christ was saved. That old awful apartment? Never heard all the demons screaming, running because I was there now. But not me CHRIST!

See one could think God was going our will yet He could do this because we have always prayed "lord you will be done not mine. You do what ever you want in my life". That only works if I mean it from my heart.

Free will? Yes and yet what is also true is "predestined"

Let us look again... "But now, after that ye...are known of God..."

Galatians 4:Galatians 4:9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

I posted scripture stating exactly how God knows a man, and you give your opinions. That shows you are following a man's theology and not the bible.

Ok, and...

24 The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord.

You missed my point in starting this thread.

I was untangling an error of Calvinism's thinking.

The being. That he did not simply choose us.
But, that He chose us IN Him.

Your expression? It is too ambiguous to accomplish that understanding, and would leave the Calvinist feeling free to continue being mislead.

Tell you what..

When it stops saying "in Him" you can come back and we will discuss some more.

grace and peace .............

Wondering..

How many here who are trying to find ways to change what I concluded are Calvinists?



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