Spiritual Baptism

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Dec 18, 2023
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Precious friend, there are Severe problems with Mis-understanding:

"baptism Always = water"? ie:​

1) Noah’s type {figurative} baptism (Genesis 6:13, 7:23; 1 Peter 3:20-21).
Peter, the apostle to the circumcision [Jews] (Galatians 2:8), writes to the
“elect strangers” (1 Peter 1:1-2), And mentions to them that eight people
were “saved by water!”

Did the water not "destroy all of the unrighteous," and​
the "ark save eight righteous" through/out of the water?​
2. Baptism unto Moses (Exodus 14:29; 1 Corinthians 10:2).
Paul presents Israel’s baptism unto Moses “in the cloud and in the sea!”
Saving “baptism” or spiritual “identification” with God’s leader of HIS people?

Dry baptism?​

------------------------------
(Israel's various washings! Greek: Baptismos = Hebrews 9:10):

3a. Israel’s ceremonial cleansings
(Exodus 19:14, 30:17-21; Leviticus 11:25; Numbers 19:13).
These cleansing rituals were required under the Mosaic Law
for the cleansing of the people.

Yes, Agree, these are water.​

3b. Traditional Jewish baptisms
(Matthew 15:2; Mark 7:3; Luke 11:38).
These washings were Not mandated under the Law,
but were part of Jewish tradition.

======

4. Levitical priesthood baptism (Exodus 29:4;
Leviticus 8:6; Numbers 8:7!). This washing was The Second
Requirement {The First being: "NO blemish!" (Leviticus 21:21!)},
in order to become a priest under the Law of Moses!

Again, Agree this is "washing hands and feet with water!​

Is this baptism in any way connected To water baptism # 9?

================================------------------------

JESUS’ Various Baptisms:

5. JESUS’ Baptism (Identification With/Immersed) Into
the human race, By HIS Birth! (Matthew 1:18-25; Luke 2:5-20!).
not water, Correct?​
6. JESUS’ water Baptism by John (Matthew 3:13-17;
Mark 1:9-11!). JESUS, Who Knew NO sin, Was Baptized by John
to Fulfill All Righteousness! { Identification With "Confessors" of sins,
In Preparation For HIS (Baptismal) Death FOR sin! }
Agreeing with God, this is water...​

7. JESUS’ Baptism With Fire
(Isaiah 4:4; Malachi 3:3; Matthew 3:11; Luke 3:16!).
JESUS Will Baptize the nation of Israel with fire when they are
in Great Tribulation in the Time Of Jacob’s Trouble!

{ Is this also for the “chaff” when separated from the wheat?
(Matthew 3:12; Luke 3:17!) }

Disagree, "fire" is different than "water," Correct?​

8. JESUS’ Baptism Unto Death! (Isaiah 53:12; Matthew 20:22-23;
Mark 10:38-39, 15:28; Luke 12:50 cp John 18:11!).
JESUS’ Third Baptism Which HE Accomplished On The Cross, Where
HE Was Identified With the sins of Israel, as well as the rest of the world!
{ cp "...HE was numbered with the transgressors." (Mark 15:28 KJB!). }

NO water here Either, Correct?​
==========================================================

9. "water" baptism of repentance that John preached (Before The Cross),
And Peter continued (After The Cross!), to preach!
(Matthew 3:5-6; Mark 1:4; Luke 3:3; John 1:31; Luke 7:29-30;
Acts 10:37; Matthew 28:19; Mark 16:16; Acts 2:38; Acts 22:16;
Ezekiel 36:25).
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Baptism Of Anointing?:

10. Pentecostal Spirit baptism

This is the baptism "WITH" The Holy Spirit, BY JESUS CHRIST,
From Heaven, Poured Out Upon the believing remnant of Israel with
signs and powers following. (Isaiah 44:3; Matthew 3:11; Mark 1:8, 16:17-18;
Luke 24:49; Acts 2:17-18, 38; Acts 8:15-17; Acts 11:16).

physical water, or Spiritual?​

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That Differ!” (online):

For The Body Of Christ, Today, Under God's Grace!:

Only ONE Baptism = "BY" The ONE Holy Spirit = God's OPERATION,
Spiritually Identifying members In (The ONE Body Of) CHRIST!!
(Ephesians 4:5; Colossians 2:12; Galatians 3:27;
Romans 6:3-4; 1 Corinthians 12:13 KJB!)

How is A Supernatural Spiritual Being = natural physical water?​

Amen.
Gods word says you have to be baptised in water
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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The tacit understanding for baptism is liquid water. This is true in the Greek and English.
To imply that Paul was speaking of another form of baptism is quite a stretch.

The tacit form of "ice" is frozen water.
The tacit form of "to bathe" is with liquid water.
The tacit form of "to take a shower" is with liquid water.
Even the word "water" is tacit for liquid water.
No one is arguing that a believer should not be baptized in water. The argument is whether water baptism is of spiritual or symbolic value.
The baptism of 1 Corinthians 12:13 is a spiritual baptism because it is done by the Spirit. It is the one baptism being spoken of in the passage.
We've been through Acts 2:37-38 before. I have explained the work of the Spirit in verse 37...the hearing given and the heart circumcised that produces a change in the will...that precedes what occurs in verse 38.

So believers should be baptized in water as an act of obedience. After all, the command is given by one with apostolic authority. And I do believe there is grace imparted to the believer that is only given in baptism. But water baptism is largely symbolic of the union that has been forged previously by the Spirit of the believer into Christ in His death, burial, and resurrection. There is no magic water. It has been accomplished by the Spirit and all that results from it are due to the life of Christ now present in the new convert. To God be all the glory.
 

Aaron56

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Jul 12, 2021
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No one is arguing that a believer should not be baptized in water. The argument is whether water baptism is of spiritual or symbolic value.
The baptism of 1 Corinthians 12:13 is a spiritual baptism because it is done by the Spirit. It is the one baptism being spoken of in the passage.
We've been through Acts 2:37-38 before. I have explained the work of the Spirit in verse 37...the hearing given and the heart circumcised that produces a change in the will...that precedes what occurs in verse 38.

So believers should be baptized in water as an act of obedience. After all, the command is given by one with apostolic authority. And I do believe there is grace imparted to the believer that is only given in baptism. But water baptism is largely symbolic of the union that has been forged previously by the Spirit of the believer into Christ in His death, burial, and resurrection. There is no magic water. It has been accomplished by the Spirit and all that results from it are due to the life of Christ now present in the new convert. To God be all the glory.
I agree.

Water baptism is very important. It is a sign to the powers of this world that we are "buried with Him". Thus, our old man has died. The life we live now is "Christ in us". The enemy, including Death, has no power over the dead. And, the life that is in us through Christ, is greater than he who is in the world and Death.

All believers in Christ should be baptized in water.
 

fizzyjoe

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Oct 22, 2018
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I’ve heard people talk about spiritual baptism. I’m not aware of the bible telling us or alluding to a baptism of/by the HS. I’m hoping this discussion will help me to understand how some come to this conclusion and the scriptural support for it.

Let me first give my basic current understanding on the topic and my concerns. My concern is this “spiritual” baptism is being used to replace water baptism and make water baptism of no effect. If it does actually replace water baptism then great, I want to know and understand.

I understand what the transliterated word “baptism” means. I understand that it’s used in various ways. For this discussion, I would like to stick to baptisms role in conversion. I want to understand what the bible tells us about water and "spiritual" baptism.

I do believe there is a spiritual baptism because the bible tells me so. “Baptized with the Holy Spirit” However, baptism with the HS only happened twice and each one was for a very important specific purpose. The first was the beginning of the church on Pentecost and the other was the first Gentile converts. These were directly from God and evident by speaking in tongues.

Please do not use these two to prove "spiritual baptism". I acknowledge this is spiritual baptism. If you believe they were not special situations, then since they are not special you should be able to use the other conversions to prove your point.

Now God has given us His word so we can understand these things. I trust God has chosen the right words to tell us about these things so we can understand. So please use scripture to make your point and tell me how that scripture supports your point.
well I can't provide scripture at the moment gotta get out the door soon😅
but, perhaps a good basis for understanding is to explore just how different the two baptisms are yet similar in one aspect...
that one must accept either one of Free Will,water baptism in particular is somewhat of a contract a free slate offered in a sense however as I learned personally baptism of water is Null and Void when you have no prior understanding of What You Are Accepting, I was baptized as a child for glory of a relative but, now know that was wrong and incorrect and so resulted in no effect for such misunderstanding😬

Spiritual Baptism otherwise known as Baptism of Holy spirit is it's own separate detail rather than a sort of contract it's a more personal endearment and acceptance toward Jesus which once again must be found within one's self and accepted for it to affect you,in my opinion the most personal conversation you will have with Jesus😟🙏😀
 

turbosixx

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Sep 16, 2023
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No it doesn't. People are saved by accepting Jesus as their Savior. Water baptism is a "statement", a symbolic burial and a new birth.
How does one "accept" Jesus as their personal savior?
 

turbosixx

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Sep 16, 2023
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well I can't provide scripture at the moment gotta get out the door soon😅
but, perhaps a good basis for understanding is to explore just how different the two baptisms are yet similar in one aspect...
that one must accept either one of Free Will,water baptism in particular is somewhat of a contract a free slate offered in a sense however as I learned personally baptism of water is Null and Void when you have no prior understanding of What You Are Accepting, I was baptized as a child for glory of a relative but, now know that was wrong and incorrect and so resulted in no effect for such misunderstanding😬

Spiritual Baptism otherwise known as Baptism of Holy spirit is it's own separate detail rather than a sort of contract it's a more personal endearment and acceptance toward Jesus which once again must be found within one's self and accepted for it to affect you,in my opinion the most personal conversation you will have with Jesus😟🙏😀
Thanks for your input. I agree water baptism can be null and void unless done correctly. We can see evidence of that in Acts 19. They were water baptized but with the wrong baptism so Paul baptized them again with the right one. Then he gives them spiritual gifts.

I look forward to your scriptural support for "spiritual" baptism. I agree we receive the HS when we are water baptized but I don't see where the bible tells us that is a separate baptism. It's just being given the HS not a baptism of/by.
 

turbosixx

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Sep 16, 2023
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no he still didn't get it, the reason it is discussed again in chpts 11 and 15 is because he and Paul fell out in Antioch over whether or not the salvation of the Gentiles were "properly" saved ... he withdrew from them and would not eat with them [treating them as unclean] even Barnabas and John Mark was caught up in this dispute.

They did submit to Paul but from then on it was decided that they should go to the Jews and Paul to the Gentiles.
You are correct, Peter did treat them as unclean but only after a group of Jews arrived. Before that he treated them as clean.
12 For before certain men came from James, he was eating with the Gentiles; but when they came he drew back and separated himself, fearing the circumcision party.
You see why God had to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt Gentiles were now His people too. By giving Peter a vision and giving the Gentiles the HS directly. Maybe that is why Peter was the one chosen to convert the first Gentiles, because he disregarded them the most.
I suggest just because Peter struggled with it doesn't mean he didn't get it. He had lived his whole life like that. Even with Jesus he was told not to go to the Gentiles. We get that we are not supposed to sin but we still struggle with it.
Peter said he understood it.
34 So Peter opened his mouth and said: “Truly I understand that God shows no partiality, 35 but in every nation anyone who fears him and does what is right is acceptable to him.

None of the Jews got it until Peter told them. That is why God gave them irrefutable proof that Peter could share. We see they criticized him for eating with uncircumcised men until he told them what happened then they said:
18 When they heard these things they fell silent. And they glorified God, saying, “Then to the Gentiles also God has granted repentance that leads to life.”
My .02
Thanks for you comments
 

GRACE_ambassador

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Feb 22, 2021
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So believers should be baptized in water as an act of obedience.
Precious friend, not to be unkind, but humbly and sincerely questioning this:

Since God Says there is Only ONE [ Spiritual ] Baptism, today, Under His
Amazing Grace,
how exactly should we explain:

1) God's Math is Incorrect, since men "wish to add water baptism" to
His Formula of ONE [ Spiritual ] Baptism, thus making the Second baptism
"for symbolic obedience"?

and:

2) If there are then Actually Two baptisms, then how do we explain the
'discrimination' toward All the "disabled, paraplegics, bedridden, etc."
who will Never "be able" to Obey this "second baptism", no 'sanctification'
of 'obedience' for these folks?

Just wondering...:unsure:

Amen.
 
Dec 18, 2023
6,402
406
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Precious friend, not to be unkind, but humbly and sincerely questioning this:

Since God Says there is Only ONE [ Spiritual ] Baptism, today, Under His
Amazing Grace,
how exactly should we explain:

1) God's Math is Incorrect, since men "wish to add water baptism" to
His Formula of ONE [ Spiritual ] Baptism, thus making the Second baptism
"for symbolic obedience"?

and:

2) If there are then Actually Two baptisms, then how do we explain the
'discrimination' toward All the "disabled, paraplegics, bedridden, etc."
who will Never "be able" to Obey this "second baptism", no 'sanctification'
of 'obedience' for these folks?

Just wondering...:unsure:

Amen.
God is not symbolic, and God's word says you have to be baptised
 

turbosixx

Active member
Sep 16, 2023
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Acts 16:31a They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved... "
Please consider:
That was said before they were told anything about Jesus they were to believe in.
30 Then he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.” 32 And they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all who were in his house.

Now we can look at an example of those who heard the word of Jesus first then asked the same question. The reply to them was different because they had already believed.
37 Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?” 38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Now there is something each group did in common after hearing the word and believing.
 

SunshineGirl

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Jan 6, 2024
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Sorry all but just a quick question about water baptism...when a person has been baptised as an adult in water should they ever be baptised again? Many thanks 🥰
 

FlyingDove

Senior Member
Dec 27, 2017
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Thanks for the exhaustive list of translations. I wouldn't trust to many translations. This is the Greek word used there.

en: in, on, at, by, with
Original Word: ἐν
Part of Speech: Preposition
Transliteration: en
Phonetic Spelling: (en)
Definition: in, on, at, by, with
Usage: in, on, among.

If we look at the context, of 1 Corinthians, I suggest when Paul says baptism he is referring to water baptism. Please consider:
1 Cor. 1 13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?
1 Cor. 10 Paul is giving them a warning and using the Israelites as an example. To draw the closest parallel Paul uses this to show the Israelites were water baptized. 2 and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank from the spiritual Rock that followed them, and the Rock was Christ.
The Corinthians equated water baptism with washing away sins.
1 Cor. 15 29 Otherwise, what do people mean by being baptized on behalf of the dead?
When the Corinthians read this letter and see baptism, they understand it is the water baptism at their conversion. Just as Jesus said, Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved,
Same for the Corinthians And many of the Corinthians hearing Paul believed and were baptized.
Circumcision. Our circumcision is spiritual but it's achieved by baptism.
11 In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, 12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead.

Receiving the HS. Yes, it didn't begin until after Jesus's sacrifice. Also after Jesus's sacrifice He changed water baptism to baptized in the name of Jesus.
1st, the OP asked a question about Spiritual baptism vs water baptism. The only way one can be saved is if Jesus baptizes them with His Holy Spirit. Water neither removes sin or saves.

2ndly, I agree all versions aren't the same, some being more clear then others. Having said that, I believe, any version is good enough to lead one to salvation. God's Word is quick/alive (Heb 4:12) & doesn't reteun to Him void. It will ultimately accomplish whatever He intends it to (Isa 40:8, Matt 24:35)

The version you posted 1 Cor 12:13 with say's, baptized IN. Most versions say BY the Holy Spirit. I believe BY is a more clear teaching. That was the point I tried to articulate.

3rdly, another verse I cited (Col 2:11) say's: In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision """made without hands""". Water baptism requires hands. Spiritual baptism requires Christ' H/S.

Understanding the Acts 2 Pentecost/Jews only H/S outpouring & Rom 10/Cornelius house. Where the door to gentile salvation is opened. Are necessary to the subject matter. There is a clear inversion from the: Be baptized & receive the H/S to being baptized Spiritually them partaking in water baptism.

Mosaic law (no person alive today is or has ever been under Mosaic law). It had numerous ritual/water purification requirements. (Ex 39:4; Ex 30:19-21; Ex 40:12; Lev 6:27; Lev 13:54, Lev 13:58; Lev 14:8-9; Levs 15:16; Lev 16:4, Lev 16:24; Lev 22:6.)

Act 15:
8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;

9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
(MY COMMENT: Peter is explaining to Jews that God GAVE/BAPTIZED the Gentiles with/by/in His Holy Spirit purifying them based on FAITH ALONE.

Jesus and only Jesus can purify/baptize believers (Matt 3:11, Lk 3:16, Mk 1:8, Acts 11:16) with His eternal salvation sealing (2 Cor 1:22, 2 Tim 1:14, 2 Cor 5:5.) indwelling Holy Spirit.

After Spiritual baptizm comes water baptism. A visible outwardly exercise expressing one's inner change, dedication & commitment.

Acts 11:19 Now they which were scattered abroad upon the persecution that arose about Stephen travelled as far as Phenice, and Cyprus, and Antioch, preaching the word to none but unto the """Jews only""".
(MY COMMENT: Here Paul is still Saul, Peter hasn't had the (Acts 10:9-16) vision that sends him to Cornelius (the gentiles) house. Here the salvation message is 100% to Israel/Jews, to include the risen Jesus message found in (Matt 28:19-20) 100% Jewish!)
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
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I’ve heard people talk about spiritual baptism. I’m not aware of the bible telling us or alluding to a baptism of/by the HS. I’m hoping this discussion will help me to understand how some come to this conclusion and the scriptural support for it.

Let me first give my basic current understanding on the topic and my concerns. My concern is this “spiritual” baptism is being used to replace water baptism and make water baptism of no effect. If it does actually replace water baptism then great, I want to know and understand.

I understand what the transliterated word “baptism” means. I understand that it’s used in various ways. For this discussion, I would like to stick to baptisms role in conversion. I want to understand what the bible tells us about water and "spiritual" baptism.

I do believe there is a spiritual baptism because the bible tells me so. “Baptized with the Holy Spirit” However, baptism with the HS only happened twice and each one was for a very important specific purpose. The first was the beginning of the church on Pentecost and the other was the first Gentile converts. These were directly from God and evident by speaking in tongues.

Please do not use these two to prove "spiritual baptism". I acknowledge this is spiritual baptism. If you believe they were not special situations, then since they are not special you should be able to use the other conversions to prove your point.

Now God has given us His word so we can understand these things. I trust God has chosen the right words to tell us about these things so we can understand. So please use scripture to make your point and tell me how that scripture supports your point.
I understand I am very late to this thread but I just wanted to tell you what I have learned from it. water baptism as muc as it is coincided with spiritual does not seem to be in the same realm Everytime water baptism aside from when Jesus was water baptized seems to be more of a physical act, I mean when you were baptized do you recall the soothing sensation the cooling of your physical body the life flowing through the waters doing so much more than inspire or create that fire in you?

If water baptism is as it sohlud be then those living waters Jesus spoke of that you will never quench again can we ask ourselves and conclude this? was he all talk what was the reason he spoke in such an insane way? even back then this is insane talk especially so to a gentile of all people but he said it as he did

I dob't know if you ever felt this water but imagine everything you feel you lacking your body soul mind and in return all you feel is this coolness and soft feeling on your skin beimg so clean and pure you fail to understand how you ever thought you and sin had anything to do with each other

How every ounce of weainess physical emotional spiritual it doesnt matter just clean life How many baptisms do you hear about that can express this in such a manner? The sad thing is I am still waiting for this spiritual water either way the only thing that decides what it is is your bond with him

I think of clean soothing waters feeling so good on your skin soul and spirit filled with life but if you ask anyone else can they say the same thing?
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
18,729
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Precious friend, not to be unkind, but humbly and sincerely questioning this:

Since God Says there is Only ONE [ Spiritual ] Baptism, today, Under His
Amazing Grace,
how exactly should we explain:

1) God's Math is Incorrect, since men "wish to add water baptism" to
His Formula of ONE [ Spiritual ] Baptism, thus making the Second baptism
"for symbolic obedience"?

and:

2) If there are then Actually Two baptisms, then how do we explain the
'discrimination' toward All the "disabled, paraplegics, bedridden, etc."
who will Never "be able" to Obey this "second baptism", no 'sanctification'
of 'obedience' for these folks?

Just wondering...:unsure:

Amen.
There are many baptisms. The one baptism spoken of in 1 Corinthians 12 is spiritual. By pointing to this particular baptism in this way does not negate or undermine other baptisms. It was simply to mention this baptism is this way.
 
Dec 18, 2023
6,402
406
83
I understand I am very late to this thread but I just wanted to tell you what I have learned from it. water baptism as muc as it is coincided with spiritual does not seem to be in the same realm Everytime water baptism aside from when Jesus was water baptized seems to be more of a physical act, I mean when you were baptized do you recall the soothing sensation the cooling of your physical body the life flowing through the waters doing so much more than inspire or create that fire in you?

If water baptism is as it sohlud be then those living waters Jesus spoke of that you will never quench again can we ask ourselves and conclude this? was he all talk what was the reason he spoke in such an insane way? even back then this is insane talk especially so to a gentile of all people but he said it as he did

I dob't know if you ever felt this water but imagine everything you feel you lacking your body soul mind and in return all you feel is this coolness and soft feeling on your skin beimg so clean and pure you fail to understand how you ever thought you and sin had anything to do with each other

How every ounce of weainess physical emotional spiritual it doesnt matter just clean life How many baptisms do you hear about that can express this in such a manner? The sad thing is I am still waiting for this spiritual water either way the only thing that decides what it is is your bond with him

I think of clean soothing waters feeling so good on your skin soul and spirit filled with life but if you ask anyone else can they say the same thing?
Jesus may well have left his life in the water too, waiting for you to be baptised in the water. 😊