ANALYZING Scofield
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E
You gave your reasoning why you believe it was scripture. You never convinced me. I also used scripture. I never convinced you
As have I you. which you do not believe me, and I can't believe you
Here is where the problems lies.
You take a symbolic interpretation of of daniel 9 you have to. Because otherwise your belief falls apart.
I take a literal view. These two views appose each other. that is why we disagree so much.. It is not dispensationalism which separates us. It is how we interpret the word.
Dispensationalism is just a way to divide history into smaller parts so we can understand it, thats all. Where we differ is how it all ends.
In my ending we have 7 years. then 1000 years.
in your ending, it just ends/. This is what separates us. not a doctrine of dispensationalism.
ps. I use scripture ALOT also. just like you do. Again it falls to how we interpret scripture. You interpret symbolically. I interpret literally. It is this that separates us,
I am not arguing pre-trib sys. I am discussing ammelinial vs premillenial. unless you are discussing something else and I got confused..lol (Which is completely possible
)
As far as the internet goes. look what happened.
You gave me a quote from a website dishing on scofiled. I did not study and agreed with you. Then I was shown that site wiggled the truth to make their stuff appear believable. Again later last night someone did the same with another website. This time I tested to make sure before I commented. And found what that website said is the opposite of the truth, and the truth actually backs the person the website was trying to tear down. Thats why I don't trust websites.
Think about it sis. You put all your websites down. I put all mine down. I bet we find the same thing happening and both sides guilty of distorting the truth. so what are we to do?
As have I you. which you do not believe me, and I can't believe you
Here is where the problems lies.
You take a symbolic interpretation of of daniel 9 you have to. Because otherwise your belief falls apart.
I take a literal view. These two views appose each other. that is why we disagree so much.. It is not dispensationalism which separates us. It is how we interpret the word.
Dispensationalism is just a way to divide history into smaller parts so we can understand it, thats all. Where we differ is how it all ends.
In my ending we have 7 years. then 1000 years.
in your ending, it just ends/. This is what separates us. not a doctrine of dispensationalism.
ps. I use scripture ALOT also. just like you do. Again it falls to how we interpret scripture. You interpret symbolically. I interpret literally. It is this that separates us,
I am not arguing pre-trib sys. I am discussing ammelinial vs premillenial. unless you are discussing something else and I got confused..lol (Which is completely possible
)As far as the internet goes. look what happened.
You gave me a quote from a website dishing on scofiled. I did not study and agreed with you. Then I was shown that site wiggled the truth to make their stuff appear believable. Again later last night someone did the same with another website. This time I tested to make sure before I commented. And found what that website said is the opposite of the truth, and the truth actually backs the person the website was trying to tear down. Thats why I don't trust websites.
Think about it sis. You put all your websites down. I put all mine down. I bet we find the same thing happening and both sides guilty of distorting the truth. so what are we to do?
E
What about the Abrahamic covenant concerning the land/. The prophesies of Ezekial and jeremiah and Isaih that show Israel will reject God. play the harlot. Be totally destroyed and scattered over the whole earth (which happened in AD 70). Yet one day will repent and be returned to their land because they repented? What about romans 11. Where paul seperates gentile and jew/ States a fact the gentiles have it. The jews have rejected it. but when the gentiles turn and reject it (a falling away) and their time is complete. The jews will once again get it and be restored?
What about what Jesus said when he prophesied their own destruction. But said they will one day repent?
37 “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing! 38 See! Your house is left to you desolate; 39 for I say to you, you shall see Me no more till you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the LORD!’”[g]
We just ignore all these things?
Sorry I can't do that!
What about what Jesus said when he prophesied their own destruction. But said they will one day repent?
37 “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing! 38 See! Your house is left to you desolate; 39 for I say to you, you shall see Me no more till you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the LORD!’”[g]
We just ignore all these things?
Sorry I can't do that!
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E
It has nothign to do with this my friend. It has to do with the OT prophesies, And nt promises and prophesies that after the times of the gentiles are complete. Israel will have their blindess removed and be restored.
Non of this happens until the church is basically so far gone there are few if any real believers left in the gentile nation.
It is not God forcing them to be gone. it is the gentiles doing exactly what the jews did Going blind and playing the harlot.; and turning from the true God.
Non of this happens until the church is basically so far gone there are few if any real believers left in the gentile nation.
It is not God forcing them to be gone. it is the gentiles doing exactly what the jews did Going blind and playing the harlot.; and turning from the true God.
E
Why. SO you can again ask me to prove who these people are?
Dude. what do you want me to do? Reject prophesy just because I can't prove it?
Here. I will let jesus answer you for me.; Maybe you will listen to him.
matt 23:
37 “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing! 38 See! Your house is left to you desolate; 39 for I say to you, you shall see Me no more TILL YOU SAY, ‘BLESSED IS HE WHO COMES IN THE NAME OF THE LORD""
There. I bolded, Highlighted, and capitalized it so you can see it and have no question.
Who is he who comes in the name of the Lord? Jesus.
Who is he saying will lose their house (land) until they repent and say Blessed is Christ? Gentiles??
Dude. what do you want me to do? Reject prophesy just because I can't prove it?
Here. I will let jesus answer you for me.; Maybe you will listen to him.
matt 23:
37 “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing! 38 See! Your house is left to you desolate; 39 for I say to you, you shall see Me no more TILL YOU SAY, ‘BLESSED IS HE WHO COMES IN THE NAME OF THE LORD""
There. I bolded, Highlighted, and capitalized it so you can see it and have no question.
Who is he who comes in the name of the Lord? Jesus.
Who is he saying will lose their house (land) until they repent and say Blessed is Christ? Gentiles??
E
No it does not. The promise is unconditional. The ability of the people who were given the promise to reap the benefits is conditional. These conditions do not change or remove the origional covenant. It still stands.
The fact the end of leviticus says if they repent he will return them proves it still stands. Because if it did not. God would never return them to their land. How many times did he already return them because he "remembered his covenant" What God is not going to remember it no more if Israel repents?
Exekial says he will. Jeremiah says he will. Isaiah says he will. Paul says he sill. Jesus even says he will. do I go against all these people ?
what makes you think this means anything other than that every knee will bow and every tongue shall confess that Jesus is Lord: including those that go off to destruction.
the church has historically believed The Second Advent brings wrath/resurrection White Throne and eternity.
Rev says in the last woes men are no longer repenting. that time is over.
only a fururist millennial view allows for a second chance for anyone.
and that inexplicably: it is given to every man to die once, THEN the Judgment.
the church has historically believed The Second Advent brings wrath/resurrection White Throne and eternity.
Rev says in the last woes men are no longer repenting. that time is over.
only a fururist millennial view allows for a second chance for anyone.
and that inexplicably: it is given to every man to die once, THEN the Judgment.
A
Besides Gods covenant with Abraham didnt have squat to do with Land. It had to do with Christ.
Hebrews 11:8-10
King James Version (KJV)
8By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
9By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:
10For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.
Hebrews 11:13-16
King James Version (KJV)
13These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth
14For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.
15And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.
16But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.
Revelation 21
1And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Hebrews 11:8-10
King James Version (KJV)
8By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
9By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:
10For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.
Hebrews 11:13-16
King James Version (KJV)
13These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth
14For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.
15And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.
16But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.
Revelation 21
1And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
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E
what verse?
How about one chapter;
ez 37
1 The hand of the LORD came upon me and brought me out in the Spirit of the LORD, and set me down in the midst of the valley; and it was full of bones. 2 Then He caused me to pass by them all around, and behold, there were very many in the open valley; and indeed they were very dry. 3 And He said to me, “Son of man, can these bones live?”
So I answered, “O Lord GOD, You know.”
4 Again He said to me, “Prophesy to these bones, and say to them, ‘O dry bones, hear the word of the LORD! 5 Thus says the Lord GOD to these bones: “Surely I will cause breath to enter into you, and you shall live. 6 I will put sinews on you and bring flesh upon you, cover you with skin and put breath in you; and you shall live. Then you shall know that I am the LORD.”’”
7 So I prophesied as I was commanded; and as I prophesied, there was a noise, and suddenly a rattling; and the bones came together, bone to bone. 8 Indeed, as I looked, the sinews and the flesh came upon them, and the skin covered them over; but there was no breath in them.
9 Also He said to me, “Prophesy to the breath, prophesy, son of man, and say to the breath, ‘Thus says the Lord GOD: “Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe on these slain, that they may live.”’” 10 So I prophesied as He commanded me, and breath came into them, and they lived, and stood upon their feet, an exceedingly great army.
11 Then He said to me, “Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel. They indeed say, ‘Our bones are dry, our hope is lost, and we ourselves are cut off!’
We can stop right here for a minute. Tell me abiding. When was israel cut off? as a hint. All of you have been telling me this happened in AD 70. And at this time the house of Israel died. Which you were right in this. the error is that it no longer exists. it just has no life. It is dead. They are blind because they can not see.
12 Therefore prophesy and say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord GOD: “Behold, O My people, I will open your graves and cause you to come up from your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel. 13 Then you shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O My people, and brought you up from your graves. 14 I will put My Spirit in you, and you shall live, and I will place you in your own land. Then you shall know that I, the LORD, have spoken it and performed it,” says the LORD.’”
God opens their graves. gives them life. They who were blind and dead can not see. And what does God promise? to return them to their land! the land that was given to them. And which they lost because of their rebellion and sin against God, and rejection of her messiah
15 Again the word of the LORD came to me, saying, 16 “As for you, son of man, take a stick for yourself and write on it: ‘For Judah and for the children of Israel, his companions.’ Then take another stick and write on it, ‘For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel, his companions.’ 17 Then join them one to another for yourself into one stick, and they will become one in your hand.
18 “And when the children of your people speak to you, saying, ‘Will you not show us what you mean by these?’— 19 say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord GOD: “Surely I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel, his companions; and I will join them with it, with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they will be one in My hand.”’ 20 And the sticks on which you write will be in your hand before their eyes.
Remember. Israel through disobedience split into two kingdoms. The northern kingdom and ephram were taken out of their land by the syrians, and has never been back. The southern kingdom was carried away to babylon. But was retored for a time until AD 70 when they were completely removed from their land. At that point the whole house of Israel were scattered all over the earth.
Jesus said, he will take both houses and make them one again. The north and the south will be rejoined as one nation.
21 “Then say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord GOD: “Surely I will take the children of Israel from among the nations, wherever they have gone, and will gather them from every side and bring them into their own land; 22 and I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king over them all; they shall no longer be two nations, nor shall they ever be divided into two kingdoms again.
When has this ever happened? History shows that since the northern kingdom was taken by the syrian army. They have NEVER BEEN UNITED as one kingdom!
23 They shall not defile themselves anymore with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions; but I will deliver them from all their dwelling places in which they have sinned, and will cleanse them. Then they shall be My people, and I will be their God.
Here is the repentance. Where the rebellious children of Israel who has rejected her messiah and God because of sin, has seen the truth. And as Paul said in Romans 11. "ALL ISRAEL will be saved"
24 “David My servant shall be king over them, and they shall all have one shepherd; they shall also walk in My judgments and observe My statutes, and do them. 25 Then they shall dwell in the land that I have given to Jacob My servant, where your fathers dwelt; and they shall dwell there, they, their children, and their children’s children,
Here is the sticky part. Who is david? Is this the son of david? is the the promise future king who was promised from david to sit on his throne in the house of Israel? That would be Jesus.
And as we see. Israel has not only repent4ed. There sin is no more (not that they would be sinnles.. But their harlotries and rebelion will be gone. Because they have finally GOT IT>
How about one chapter;
ez 37
1 The hand of the LORD came upon me and brought me out in the Spirit of the LORD, and set me down in the midst of the valley; and it was full of bones. 2 Then He caused me to pass by them all around, and behold, there were very many in the open valley; and indeed they were very dry. 3 And He said to me, “Son of man, can these bones live?”
So I answered, “O Lord GOD, You know.”
4 Again He said to me, “Prophesy to these bones, and say to them, ‘O dry bones, hear the word of the LORD! 5 Thus says the Lord GOD to these bones: “Surely I will cause breath to enter into you, and you shall live. 6 I will put sinews on you and bring flesh upon you, cover you with skin and put breath in you; and you shall live. Then you shall know that I am the LORD.”’”
7 So I prophesied as I was commanded; and as I prophesied, there was a noise, and suddenly a rattling; and the bones came together, bone to bone. 8 Indeed, as I looked, the sinews and the flesh came upon them, and the skin covered them over; but there was no breath in them.
9 Also He said to me, “Prophesy to the breath, prophesy, son of man, and say to the breath, ‘Thus says the Lord GOD: “Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe on these slain, that they may live.”’” 10 So I prophesied as He commanded me, and breath came into them, and they lived, and stood upon their feet, an exceedingly great army.
11 Then He said to me, “Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel. They indeed say, ‘Our bones are dry, our hope is lost, and we ourselves are cut off!’
We can stop right here for a minute. Tell me abiding. When was israel cut off? as a hint. All of you have been telling me this happened in AD 70. And at this time the house of Israel died. Which you were right in this. the error is that it no longer exists. it just has no life. It is dead. They are blind because they can not see.
12 Therefore prophesy and say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord GOD: “Behold, O My people, I will open your graves and cause you to come up from your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel. 13 Then you shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O My people, and brought you up from your graves. 14 I will put My Spirit in you, and you shall live, and I will place you in your own land. Then you shall know that I, the LORD, have spoken it and performed it,” says the LORD.’”
God opens their graves. gives them life. They who were blind and dead can not see. And what does God promise? to return them to their land! the land that was given to them. And which they lost because of their rebellion and sin against God, and rejection of her messiah
15 Again the word of the LORD came to me, saying, 16 “As for you, son of man, take a stick for yourself and write on it: ‘For Judah and for the children of Israel, his companions.’ Then take another stick and write on it, ‘For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel, his companions.’ 17 Then join them one to another for yourself into one stick, and they will become one in your hand.
18 “And when the children of your people speak to you, saying, ‘Will you not show us what you mean by these?’— 19 say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord GOD: “Surely I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel, his companions; and I will join them with it, with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they will be one in My hand.”’ 20 And the sticks on which you write will be in your hand before their eyes.
Remember. Israel through disobedience split into two kingdoms. The northern kingdom and ephram were taken out of their land by the syrians, and has never been back. The southern kingdom was carried away to babylon. But was retored for a time until AD 70 when they were completely removed from their land. At that point the whole house of Israel were scattered all over the earth.
Jesus said, he will take both houses and make them one again. The north and the south will be rejoined as one nation.
21 “Then say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord GOD: “Surely I will take the children of Israel from among the nations, wherever they have gone, and will gather them from every side and bring them into their own land; 22 and I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king over them all; they shall no longer be two nations, nor shall they ever be divided into two kingdoms again.
When has this ever happened? History shows that since the northern kingdom was taken by the syrian army. They have NEVER BEEN UNITED as one kingdom!
23 They shall not defile themselves anymore with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions; but I will deliver them from all their dwelling places in which they have sinned, and will cleanse them. Then they shall be My people, and I will be their God.
Here is the repentance. Where the rebellious children of Israel who has rejected her messiah and God because of sin, has seen the truth. And as Paul said in Romans 11. "ALL ISRAEL will be saved"
24 “David My servant shall be king over them, and they shall all have one shepherd; they shall also walk in My judgments and observe My statutes, and do them. 25 Then they shall dwell in the land that I have given to Jacob My servant, where your fathers dwelt; and they shall dwell there, they, their children, and their children’s children,
Here is the sticky part. Who is david? Is this the son of david? is the the promise future king who was promised from david to sit on his throne in the house of Israel? That would be Jesus.
And as we see. Israel has not only repent4ed. There sin is no more (not that they would be sinnles.. But their harlotries and rebelion will be gone. Because they have finally GOT IT>
E
maybe because of who he was talking to? Did jesus say oh wold oh world? Oh gentile oh Gentile? No he said O Jerusalem oh jerusalem.
why would I want to twist jesus words?
as do I
what does this have to do with mellinial kingdom?
No one is reborn in this kingdom and given a second chance. Only those who "endure to the end" of tribulation and are spared in the final battle enter this kingdom. They have kids. Their kids have kids etc etc.
No one is given a second chance. I don't even know where you heard this. If someone is saying this. they are in error
why would I want to twist jesus words?
as do I
what does this have to do with mellinial kingdom?
No one is reborn in this kingdom and given a second chance. Only those who "endure to the end" of tribulation and are spared in the final battle enter this kingdom. They have kids. Their kids have kids etc etc.
No one is given a second chance. I don't even know where you heard this. If someone is saying this. they are in error
E
This is speaking about the redemptive promises. It has nothing to do with the land promises. why do you think it does? Does living in israel a prerequisite for us procuring salvation? Does it say we who are saved are given this land in place of Israel? Why am I living in the USA now if my property should be in Canaan because God took it away from Israel, and that promise is now given to me?
The land promise has nothing to do with redemption. And god did not relent on his promise. or give it to the church.
E
wow dude. You have not been reading a thing I have posted have you?
Why do I have to keep repeating myself?
Covenant with Abram:
Gen 12: 1-3
1 Now the LORD had said to Abram: “Get out of your country, From your family And from your father’s house, To a land that I will show you. 2 I will make you a great nation; I will bless you And make your name great; And you shall be a blessing. 3 I will bless those who bless you, And I will curse him who curses you; And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.”
In black is a promise to give abram land. Make ONE great nation from him who will possess this land.
in blue is the redemptive promise. which will be given to the whole world.
1. God taking abraham out to send him to foreign place to give to him and his descendants.
2. God will make him a (singular) great nation.
3. God will bless those who bless this nation, and curse those who curse it.
4. The only redemptive aspect of any covenant God made with Abraham, "In you shall all the nations of the earth be blessed. (something will happen out of this nation God makes with abraham which will give blessing to all the peoples of the earth)
5. the rest of the covevant has no eternal significants. and applies only to those living on earth (whoever blesses or curses)
Gen 18 On the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying:“To your descendants I have given this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the River Euphrates— 19 the Kenites, the Kenezzites, the Kadmonites, 20 the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Rephaim, 21 the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Girga****es, and the Jebusites.”
what does jesus have to do with this? . They were given this land years before Christ even came. If Jesus was essential. He would have had to come first. then they would get the land.
1. Promise that those who of the flesh of abraham are promised a specific piece of land.
2. Covenant was an "I will covenant" in other words. God promise to do it based on his reputation. Abraham or his decendants did not have to do anything to recieve this covenant. Nor could they do anything to revoce this covenant. It was a NON_CONDITIONAL Covenant made between God and Abram.
3. Again, a non redemptive covenant. Made between God and those living who are the natural born children of Abraham, with no eternal significances
Gen 17: 4- 8
4 “As for Me, behold, My covenant is with you, and you shall be a father of many nations. 5 No longer shall your name be called Abram, but your name shall be Abraham; for I have made you a father of many nations. 6 I will make you exceedingly fruitful; and I will make nations of you, and kings shall come from you. 7 And I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you in their generations, for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and your descendants after you. 8 Also I give to you and your descendants after you the land in which you are a stranger, all the land of Canaan, as an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.”
In blue many nations. In black one nation. I can prove this by the next passage
1. Abraham will father many nations.
2. God again confirms the last covenant. That canaan will be given to one of these nations, as an EVERLASTING COVENANT.
3. Again and I WILL covenant. God is not asking for abraham, or his decendants in this one nation for anything in return. Again, A NON_CONDITIONAL COVENANT.
4. Again, a non redemptive covenant. Made between God and those living who are the natural born children of Abraham, with no eternal significance
Gen 17: 10-14
10 This is My covenant which you shall keep, between Me and you and your descendants after you: Every male child among you shall be circumcised; 11 and you shall be circumcised in the flesh of your foreskins, and it shall be a sign of the covenant between Me and you. 12 He who is eight days old among you shall be circumcised, every male child in your generations, he who is born in your house or bought with money from any foreigner who is not your descendant. 13 He who is born in your house and he who is bought with your money must be circumcised, and My covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant. 14 And the uncircumcised male child, who is not circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin, that person shall be cut off from his people; he has broken My covenant.”
1. Sign of the covenant. Circumcision. (A physical not spiritual sign for a physical not spiritual covenant made between God and certain people who are alive on earth.)
2. Only available to those who are natual born. Or adopted (bought from a gentile family) child of natural born person decended from abraham. No "non physical descendnat) is given this covenant.
3. God did make one condition.Anyone who refused to be circumcized (recieve the sign) would be cut of from this covenant.
4. Again a non redemptive cevenant. which is only Given to those who are alive on this earth with no eternal significance
Genesis 17:19
19 Then God said: “No, Sarah your wife shall bear you a son, and you shall call his name Isaac; I will establish My covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his descendants after him. 20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard you. Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly. He shall beget twelve princes, and I will make him a great nation. 21 BUT My covenant I will establish with Isaac, whom Sarah shall bear to you at this set time next year.” 22 Then He finished talking with him, and God went up from Abraham.
Proof that only one nation will get the land covenant. But Abraham will father MANY nations.
1. This specific covenant deals with only those who are born of the child which will come with Sarah. Although God said earlier he would be the father of many nations. This part shows a particular covenant made between Only One nation. Which would come from this child.
2. God afirms this by showing that one of the decendants of Abraham is not a participant of this covenant. Although God does promise to bless him.
Ex 6: 4 I have also established My covenant with them, to give them the land of Canaan, the land of their pilgrimage, in which they were strangers. 5 And I have also heard the groaning of the children of Israel whom the Egyptians keep in bondage, and I have remembered My covenant. 6 Therefore say to the children of Israel: ‘I am the LORD; I will bring you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians, I will rescue you from their bondage, and I will redeem you with an outstretched arm and with great judgments. 7 I will take you as My people, and I will be your God. Then you shall know that I am the LORD your God who brings you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians. 8 And I will bring you into the land which I swore to give to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob; and I will give it to you as a heritage:
1. God reafirms his covenant made with Abraham. and reafirms this land is given just as promised to those who are physical descendants of Abrham, Issac and Jacob.
I don't know how much clearer this can be. These are not redemptive, nor are they spiritual in nature. They only deal with people living. Not to those who are already beyond the grave. There is just ONE redemptive aspect to this covenant. Which if one read the OT many of these promises and covenants which come from this one aspect are made, which shows God will bless ALL PEOPLE through Christ.
These are the promises Zone asked about earlier. Not th eland promise. which has no eternal significance to any man woman or child who lived, whether jew or gentile. Once we are dead. these covenants no longer concern us (or I should Say israel because it was not given to us)
Why do I have to keep repeating myself?
Covenant with Abram:
Gen 12: 1-3
1 Now the LORD had said to Abram: “Get out of your country, From your family And from your father’s house, To a land that I will show you. 2 I will make you a great nation; I will bless you And make your name great; And you shall be a blessing. 3 I will bless those who bless you, And I will curse him who curses you; And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.”
In black is a promise to give abram land. Make ONE great nation from him who will possess this land.
in blue is the redemptive promise. which will be given to the whole world.
1. God taking abraham out to send him to foreign place to give to him and his descendants.
2. God will make him a (singular) great nation.
3. God will bless those who bless this nation, and curse those who curse it.
4. The only redemptive aspect of any covenant God made with Abraham, "In you shall all the nations of the earth be blessed. (something will happen out of this nation God makes with abraham which will give blessing to all the peoples of the earth)
5. the rest of the covevant has no eternal significants. and applies only to those living on earth (whoever blesses or curses)
Gen 18 On the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying:“To your descendants I have given this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the River Euphrates— 19 the Kenites, the Kenezzites, the Kadmonites, 20 the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Rephaim, 21 the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Girga****es, and the Jebusites.”
what does jesus have to do with this? . They were given this land years before Christ even came. If Jesus was essential. He would have had to come first. then they would get the land.
1. Promise that those who of the flesh of abraham are promised a specific piece of land.
2. Covenant was an "I will covenant" in other words. God promise to do it based on his reputation. Abraham or his decendants did not have to do anything to recieve this covenant. Nor could they do anything to revoce this covenant. It was a NON_CONDITIONAL Covenant made between God and Abram.
3. Again, a non redemptive covenant. Made between God and those living who are the natural born children of Abraham, with no eternal significances
Gen 17: 4- 8
4 “As for Me, behold, My covenant is with you, and you shall be a father of many nations. 5 No longer shall your name be called Abram, but your name shall be Abraham; for I have made you a father of many nations. 6 I will make you exceedingly fruitful; and I will make nations of you, and kings shall come from you. 7 And I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you in their generations, for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and your descendants after you. 8 Also I give to you and your descendants after you the land in which you are a stranger, all the land of Canaan, as an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.”
In blue many nations. In black one nation. I can prove this by the next passage
1. Abraham will father many nations.
2. God again confirms the last covenant. That canaan will be given to one of these nations, as an EVERLASTING COVENANT.
3. Again and I WILL covenant. God is not asking for abraham, or his decendants in this one nation for anything in return. Again, A NON_CONDITIONAL COVENANT.
4. Again, a non redemptive covenant. Made between God and those living who are the natural born children of Abraham, with no eternal significance
Gen 17: 10-14
10 This is My covenant which you shall keep, between Me and you and your descendants after you: Every male child among you shall be circumcised; 11 and you shall be circumcised in the flesh of your foreskins, and it shall be a sign of the covenant between Me and you. 12 He who is eight days old among you shall be circumcised, every male child in your generations, he who is born in your house or bought with money from any foreigner who is not your descendant. 13 He who is born in your house and he who is bought with your money must be circumcised, and My covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant. 14 And the uncircumcised male child, who is not circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin, that person shall be cut off from his people; he has broken My covenant.”
1. Sign of the covenant. Circumcision. (A physical not spiritual sign for a physical not spiritual covenant made between God and certain people who are alive on earth.)
2. Only available to those who are natual born. Or adopted (bought from a gentile family) child of natural born person decended from abraham. No "non physical descendnat) is given this covenant.
3. God did make one condition.Anyone who refused to be circumcized (recieve the sign) would be cut of from this covenant.
4. Again a non redemptive cevenant. which is only Given to those who are alive on this earth with no eternal significance
Genesis 17:19
19 Then God said: “No, Sarah your wife shall bear you a son, and you shall call his name Isaac; I will establish My covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his descendants after him. 20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard you. Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly. He shall beget twelve princes, and I will make him a great nation. 21 BUT My covenant I will establish with Isaac, whom Sarah shall bear to you at this set time next year.” 22 Then He finished talking with him, and God went up from Abraham.
Proof that only one nation will get the land covenant. But Abraham will father MANY nations.
1. This specific covenant deals with only those who are born of the child which will come with Sarah. Although God said earlier he would be the father of many nations. This part shows a particular covenant made between Only One nation. Which would come from this child.
2. God afirms this by showing that one of the decendants of Abraham is not a participant of this covenant. Although God does promise to bless him.
Ex 6: 4 I have also established My covenant with them, to give them the land of Canaan, the land of their pilgrimage, in which they were strangers. 5 And I have also heard the groaning of the children of Israel whom the Egyptians keep in bondage, and I have remembered My covenant. 6 Therefore say to the children of Israel: ‘I am the LORD; I will bring you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians, I will rescue you from their bondage, and I will redeem you with an outstretched arm and with great judgments. 7 I will take you as My people, and I will be your God. Then you shall know that I am the LORD your God who brings you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians. 8 And I will bring you into the land which I swore to give to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob; and I will give it to you as a heritage:
1. God reafirms his covenant made with Abraham. and reafirms this land is given just as promised to those who are physical descendants of Abrham, Issac and Jacob.
I don't know how much clearer this can be. These are not redemptive, nor are they spiritual in nature. They only deal with people living. Not to those who are already beyond the grave. There is just ONE redemptive aspect to this covenant. Which if one read the OT many of these promises and covenants which come from this one aspect are made, which shows God will bless ALL PEOPLE through Christ.
These are the promises Zone asked about earlier. Not th eland promise. which has no eternal significance to any man woman or child who lived, whether jew or gentile. Once we are dead. these covenants no longer concern us (or I should Say israel because it was not given to us)
Why cant you answer yes or no to a simple question?
Whats the big fallafel?
He says to them, until you repent and accept Lord Jesus as saviour you will not see Him again. Many did.
Do you take that verse as meaning that EVERY flesh descendant of ancient Israel will be saved? Even the Pharisees (whom this chapter is about?)
Another thing to remember is that this discourse was made to the multitude and the disciples.
Whats the big fallafel?
He says to them, until you repent and accept Lord Jesus as saviour you will not see Him again. Many did.
Do you take that verse as meaning that EVERY flesh descendant of ancient Israel will be saved? Even the Pharisees (whom this chapter is about?)
Another thing to remember is that this discourse was made to the multitude and the disciples.
E
For those who really care about this. and might question it. this is for you. I refuse to speak this matter with stranglove anymore.
If you look at what jesus said. He said "Oh Jerusalem, Oh Jerusalem"
He was not speaking to individuals. He was speaking to the "house of Israel (jerusalem) (I wanted to take you in as my children) as a whole"
If you look at what jesus said. He said "Oh Jerusalem, Oh Jerusalem"
He was not speaking to individuals. He was speaking to the "house of Israel (jerusalem) (I wanted to take you in as my children) as a whole"