Did GOD give any Laws to people before Moses?

Re the OP question...

Genesis 2:15-17, "The Lord God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it. And the Lord God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.”

So there were commandments from God from the very beginning.

These scriptures has been addressed previously you can find here https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...-his-commandments.212202/page-20#post-5247748

“Adam and Eve ate from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil in disobedience to God's instructions, so it does make any sense for you to try to associate as being like obedience to God's instructions.

i don’t think you understand what anyone else is saying because of this the same issue has always been around

“and not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: but their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.

But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭3:13-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬


as long as you believe that God spoke to all nations through Moses mediation or the law ordained of angels , as Lon as you thiink that’s Gods Judgement and eternal covenant with all nations based on Abraham’s promise you are wearing a blindfold and mixing two covenants with two different functions and purposes together tbat have contrary laws for contrary purposes. trying to obey moses words and also Jesus words is a contradiction because they taught contrary things

moses law came along after man became wicked , after the floods after the dividing of the nations across the earth , after Abraham Isaac and Jacob

then a few hundred years later moses met an angel who was sent by God and who spoke on Gods behalf to deliver the children of Israel from slavery in Egypt . After he delivered them he gave them a law for the land of promise thier inheritance according to the promise made to Abram the Hebrew four hundred years beforehand

There’s a new covenant now the old one was fulfilled as a Curse because tbey broke it and Jerusalem was leveled and thier temple was destroyed because when thoer messiah came forth to restore them , they thier leaders and priests and scribes and teachers and elders accused him of blasphemy and had him killed on a cross

You are like the Jews in the gospel you can’t hear Jesus because you have no room in you for his words it’s filled with Moses commands your convinced that’s what God said to you and everyone else but what Jesus said is what God has said first to israel who had a law and covenant between they and god

and then beginning with those Jews who believed him sent from Jerusalem to gentiles who nEver had any covenant with God spoken by Moses between him and the blood descendants of Abram the Hebrew.

Thier one and only mediator is Jesus thier one and only Lord is Jesus the only sacrifice for thier sins is Jesus dying in the cross , and their only justification is Jesus being raised up from the dead and ascending to the right hand of God , thier only life is the spirit of Jesus sent into thier hearts by faith through the promises of the gospel

moses covenant word isn’t the right word for Christian’s but you can’t hear that part because your convinced that an ancient law made wi to a particular flesh and blood people is for you today

But

“But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses. And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter. Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they. Then pleased it the apostles and elders, with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas; namely, Judas surnamed Barsabas, and Silas, chief men among the brethren: and they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia: forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭15:5-6, 10-11, 22-24‬ ‭

You have to find the right covenant and beer and follow that covenant word one was spoken by moses and is not of faith

one was spoken by Christ and is of faith





his words are those they seek and believe and hear and follow the things he promised not the things Moses promised those folk we as Christian’s are t going to inherit the Jerusalem in this earth but the one in heaven where the king is in his throne

[QUOTE="vassal, post: 5256281, member: 328741]Interesting Nehemiah, the natural laws I was kind of thinking the same but have trouble defining them in a biblical context, if you could share your views on this it would be helpful. [/QUOTE]We get only glimpses of this in Genesis chapter 1. There is a reason for not having any details in that chapter.

THE CYCLE OF NIGHT AND DAY
4And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

THE REPRODUCTIVE CYCLE AND GENETIC LAWS
11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.

THE MOVEMENT OF HEAVENLY BODIES, THE CALENDAR, AND HOLY DAYS
14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
"Let them be for signs" could mean how the appearance of the moon regulated the feasts and festivals in Israel. The Bible speaks of new moons (Isa 66:23).

BIOLOGY, ZOOLOGY, BIOCHEMISTRY, AND ANIMAL AND BIRD INSTINCTS
20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

VARIETY OF CREATURES AND REPRODUCTIVE LAWS
24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

Everything written in Job 38-41 could have been included in Genesis chapter 1, but that was not God's plan. The Bible says that God created everything in His wisdom, and in His wisdom He reserved the details for the book of Job. Which would allow us to focus on the broader aspects of creation.
That is not a "crazy theory" but a Bible fact.

THE NATURE OF HUMANS AND THE CONSCIENCE IN MAN
26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

"The image of God" has many aspects. We have a mind, a will, and emotions. We also have a conscience -- the innate ability to distinguish between right and wrong (see Romans 2). Unlike other creatures we have an immaterial spirit which is able to communicate directly with God and also worship Him "in spirit and in truth". And I would say that the eternal Son of God always had a physical and human aspect. Thus "after our likeness" . So when the Bible says that the LORD God was "walking in the Garden" (Gen 3:8) that would have been the Son of God in human form coming to meet with Adam and Eve. Thus we also have various pre-incarnate appearances of Christ in human form, either as "the Angel of the LORD" or as "the Word". And once as Melchizedek, king of Salem.

But ultimately God had planned to bring Jesus of Nazareth to earth so that after His resurrection He would be "the Man Christ Jesus" in Heaven -- our Mediator. In fact God saw Christ as the Lamb of God even BEFORE the foundation of the world (1 Peter 1: 20). And He also saw the Church as the "elect" Body of Christ at that time (Eph 1:4).

We get only glimpses of this in Genesis chapter 1. There is a reason for not having any details in that chapter.

THE CYCLE OF NIGHT AND DAY
4And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

THE REPRODUCTIVE CYCLE AND GENETIC LAWS
11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.

THE MOVEMENT OF HEAVENLY BODIES, THE CALENDAR, AND HOLY DAYS
14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
"Let them be for signs" could mean how the appearance of the moon regulated the feasts and festivals in Israel. The Bible speaks of new moons (Isa 66:23).

BIOLOGY, ZOOLOGY, BIOCHEMISTRY, AND ANIMAL AND BIRD INSTINCTS
20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

VARIETY OF CREATURES AND REPRODUCTIVE LAWS
24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

Everything written in Job 38-41 could have been included in Genesis chapter 1, but that was not God's plan. The Bible says that God created everything in His wisdom, and in His wisdom He reserved the details for the book of Job. Which would allow us to focus on the broader aspects of creation.

That is not a "crazy theory" but a Bible fact.

THE NATURE OF HUMANS AND THE CONSCIENCE IN MAN
26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

"The image of God" has many aspects. We have a mind, a will, and emotions. We also have a conscience -- the innate ability to distinguish between right and wrong (see Romans 2). Unlike other creatures we have an immaterial spirit which is able to communicate directly with God and also worship Him "in spirit and in truth". And I would say that the eternal Son of God always had a physical and human aspect. Thus "after our likeness" . So when the Bible says that the LORD God was "walking in the Garden" (Gen 3:8) that would have been the Son of God in human form coming to meet with Adam and Eve. Thus we also have various pre-incarnate appearances of Christ in human form, either as "the Angel of the LORD" or as "the Word". And once as Melchizedek, king of Salem.

But ultimately God had planned to bring Jesus of Nazareth to earth so that after His resurrection He would be "the Man Christ Jesus" in Heaven -- our Mediator. In fact God saw Christ as the Lamb of God even BEFORE the foundation of the world (1 Peter 1: 20). And He also saw the Church as the "elect" Body of Christ at that time (Eph 1:4).[/QUOTE]

Brilliant, your post explains quite a lot!

I think also it would make a nice thread, many would appreciate this.

Thank you!

You could go ahead and use it in your own thread. Maybe with a title like "God's natural and laws are perfect - just like God".

If I do I will quote you as the source if it's alright?

Sure. But add your own thoughts. Also quote Romans 2:9-16 to confirm the existence of the conscience in all mankind (including those who are not saved). Also Acts 17:24-31 to confirm that all men should seek the Lord. This ties in with the conscience, therefore God now commands all men everywhere to repent.

Too far as in taking the Sabbath to such a legal extreme (which I don't see him as doing). I realized when I made the post it might be a little vague what I meant but since I wasn't sure I figured you might respond if it were. Apologies if any consternation occurred.

My goal was merely to center issues with the Sabbath around Romans 14:5 & Philippians 2:12. For both parties (ideally).

That's the only peace I get and I'd encourage anyone to turn there as a starting place/ending place.

Take care, I have read through your posts and have appreciated them in the past.

Nothing about their doctrine that says people who don’t observe the Sabbath are disobeying God and are not His? That’s not extreme?

My response was reflective of several men I know. One was a prophet who goaded the false prophets when calling upon their god.

“Cry aloud, for he is a god; either he is meditating, or he is busy, or he is on a journey, or perhaps he is sleeping and must be awakened.” 28 So they cried aloud, and cut themselves, as was their custom, with knives and lances, until the blood gushed out on them.”

And another who wished the Judaizers, preaching the law and circumcision, would emasculate themselves.

“As for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves!”

did you read Romans 14:5? Philippians 2:12?

Is it possible to grant that since you haven't ever considered "one day above another" that it's difficult to see things from the perspective of someone that does/has? You do you. If you consider "each day holy alike" then great.

Is it possible that a brother can struggle with being pharasaical and NOT be a pharisee? Likewise can someone struggle with viewing grace too liberally and dabble with licentiousness and STILL be a believer? Both of these are serious extremes in the church and BOTH lead to death when certain boundaries are crossed.

I have no idea where this line is for each person (Philippians 2:12) but for me it is important to recognize what I cannot know and what I cannot see. I cannot see clearly enough to take the speck out when there is a plank in my own eye...but I can't see the plank because it's a spiritual principle so I can only check myself and take inventory as I move along. I cannot understand certain struggles because I do not have them.

Just take a look at the verse and even if you don't think it applies in this situation it's one way to find peace about opposing viewpoints within the body of Christ.

No issue with someone preferring a day above others. That’s not their schtick. Their doctrine requires adherence to the old covenant. That is exactly what the early church dealt with. Paul’s instructions are clear:

But, as he who was born according to the flesh then persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, even so it is now. 30 Nevertheless what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the bondwoman and her son, for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.”

This is in Galatian 4. If they so chose, in their immaturity, to observe the sabbath so be it. Then they can do it quietly. But they are claiming (and often) that others who don’t think like them are not in Christ and are those whom Christ disavows. There is no peace to be had with such garbage doctrine.

A bondwomen is someone who is a salve to sin, Paul uses this analogy a few different ways. A freewomen who is someone who has been free from sin - Sin is the transgression of God's law 1 John 3:4 and Paul points right to the Ten Commandments that defines sin Romans 7:7 same ones Jesus does Math 5:19-30 teaching not to break the least of these because breaking one is like breaking them all James 2:10-12

God said the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God Exo 20:10 His holy day Isa 58:13 made for mankind Mark 2:27 that Jesus is Lord of Mar 2:28 that He said it made to bless everyone who does not profane Eze 56:1-6 and sanctify Eze 20:12 as only God can sanctify us, we can't sanctify ourselves. The Sabbath is a commandment of God even in the NC Luke 23:56 that Jesus kept Luke 4:16 and the apostles kept decades after the Cross Acts 14:42-44, Acts 18:4 and will be kept for eternity thus saith the Lord Isa 66:22-23. Jesus said not one jot or tittle could be changed from His law- it is what we should live by His every Word Mat 4:4 and teach others Mat 5:19