the health gospel..?

is it Biblical to claim that 'real' or 'strong' or 'competent' Christians will never get sick or be subject to any disease?

we're all familiar with the prosperity gospel and the "wealth" arguments of it are trivially destroyed. but what about the "health" part?


discuss

No. However, according to some, if you so much as take an aspirin, you are lacking faith and have sold your soul to the devil.

I don't even know what to say.
I can't believe that the prosperity gospel even made it mainstream but many people are not strong enough in their understanding of God so imagine saying "You're sick because you're poor and this message is approved by God" and people believing in this doctrine.

Sigh.
That clip is just sad acting.

There are many examples in the New Testament scriptures of those who have gotten sick.
For example, in 2 Tim 4: 20 tells us how Trophinmus was left by Paul in Miletum sick. We're also told of a brother who was sick, nigh unto death, in Phil 2: 26, 27. And in 1 Cor 11, we're told of those who ate communion unworthily which resulted in many being weak and sickly, with many who slept in death.
So, when we're chastened by the Lord, don't think that sickness or even death isn't a possible result for unrepentance. Also, just because a believer may get sick and die, it isn't proof that they're weak in faith or that they have unrepentant sin.

This is actually a little more nuanced than most understand. While we all are still subject to death, debilitation and disease do not need to be a large consequence of this. I realize many will be taken aback by this initially, but it is true,
First, consider Moses. Deuteronomy 34:7...And Moses was an hundred and twenty years when he died: his eye was not dim, nor his natural force abated...
Second, those who live according to biblical guidelines "generally" live healthier lifestyles. Vices generally tend to take years off a person's life expectancy and lend themselves to disease.
Third, one of God's means of correction is to afflict His children in a variety of ways; sickness and death amongst them. So if the "health" gospel is tied to holiness, there is an avenue for less frequent incidences of the need for correction, and possibly better health.
And finally, God actually tells us that He will heal us in the book of Isaiah. Most people will cite Isaiah 53 to back such a claim. I believe that primarily deals with spiritual healing and reconciliation with God. But in chapter 58 I believe God is actually speaking about physical healing for those who actually live according to the commandments as He actually intends them.
The chapter begins by God taking exception to His people's transgression because they seem to be observing His commandments, but are not. He does so by using the example of fasting. He tells them what true of them and then contrasts this with what He actually desires. Then, in verse 8, He tells them what will occur if they actually do as He desires. One of those things is that their health will spring forth speedily. This doesn't mean God is excluding any aspect of health, but it certainly would include physical health.
I'm not a name it and claim it guy, but there are great benefits from learning God's ways and living accordingly; both here and in the age to come.

That too is destroyed and one way to show the Word of faith adherents that it is destroyed is to go to 1 Peter 2:24-25. "and He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; for by His wounds you are healed." They latch on to this verse to prove your guaranteed physical healing. No w look at vs25, "For you were continually straying like sheep, but now you have returned to the Shepherd and Guarding of your souls."

The context is obvious, it has nothing to do with physically healing. As sheep we are not straying away from getting healed physically. By His wounds we have been healed spiritually.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

The health gospel is part of the prosperity doctrine and it is just as false as the prosperity doctrine is..

(Philippians 2:25-27) "Yet I supposed it necessary to send to you Epaphroditus, my brother, and companion in labour, and fellowsoldier, but your messenger, and he that ministered to my wants. {26} For he longed after you all, and was full of heaviness, because that ye had heard that he had been sick. {27} For indeed he was sick nigh unto death: but God had mercy on him; and not on him only, but on me also, lest I should have sorrow upon sorrow."

(2 Timothy 4:19-20) "Salute Prisca and Aquila, and the household of Onesiphorus. {20} Erastus abode at Corinth: but Trophimus have I left at Miletum sick."

(James 5:14-15) "Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: {15} And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him."

(2 Corinthians 12:9-10) "And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. {10} Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ’s sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong."

Scripture makes (a little) room for the idea that lack of faith and/or sin open a door to physical illness. The health "gospel" proponents take that needle-eye and ram camels through it.

If someone is sick, pray for them. If you think they are guilty of some sin (or faithlessness), put that in the Lord's hands... and leave it there.

Perversions of the gospel, which appeal to our fallen nature, made it mainstream just precisely BECAUSE of our fallen nature.

It's... predictable.

.

1 Jn 5: 16, 17 KJV If any man see his brother sin a sin that is not unto death, he shall ask and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto: I do not say he shall prey for it. All unrighteousness is sin, and there is a sin not unto death.

Rom 14: 23b for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

No, that is not what the Bible says. At the same time we should keep a few things in mind:

1. While Christ was on earth, he healed thousands. Some came to Him for healing, but some did not. However, even those who did not were healed or resurrected. Daily miracles were a part of Christ's ministry on earth, so that they would generate faith in Him.

2. God gave the gifts of healing and miracles for apostolic times. The apostles did heal people (though every incident may not have been recorded). But the Apostolic Fathers (who came immediately after) evidently did not have these gifts, so they may only have been to help spread the Gospel at the beginning.

3. James did not speak about healing miracles. Rather he provided Christians with a way to be healed as recorded in James chapter 5. However, too many churches have ignored or neglected to follow his instructions to the letter. He said that the prayer of faith SHALL heal the sick, but certain conditions needed to be met So the prayer of faith appears to be a certain way to be healed.

4. Christians are not guaranteed perfect health throughout their lives. However, every believer can go directly to God and Christ for healing. Sometimes they are healed and sometimes they are not.

5. There are many healing miracles done directly by God daily in answer to prayers. Which means that the miracles are not through a human agency, but from God Himself. "Faith healers" are generally "fake healers".

6. God has provided an astounding array of natural healing remedies through herbs and plants. Quinine is a good example. It is extracted from the Cinchona bark. It is not only an an excellent antiviral in itself , but also in HCQ and other derivatives. It also has other medicinal properties.

7. At the same time He has provided human beings with an amazing immune system to protect them from bacterial and viral infections. But people need to understand that proper nutrition, exercise, and rest are absolutely necessary to maintain good health. And taking unnecessary risks in sports and other outdoor activities is just asking for trouble. So is smoking, drinking, and drugs.

8. Paul says that partaking of the Lord's supper unworthily will lead to weakness, sickness, and even premature death. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation [condemnation] to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep [die]. (1 Cor 11:29,30)

9. John speaks of a Christian brother (or sister) who may also die prematurely. He calls it " the sin unto death" because it is related to sins not repented of. So we need to also keep this mind.

10. In general God bestows good health on the majority of people (saved and unsaved). But there is no guarantee that we will always be healthy, and never be subject to infections, diseases, or disabilities. At the same God has also provided genuine medical science and skilled doctors and surgeons to help people overcome these things. But from God's perspective, the health of the soul and spirit is even more important. God will have all men to be saved, and come unto the knowledge of the truth.

But the lord says if thou repent thou shall heal there lands.


And he said this also to the people of the church to his people.

Obviously if your land is poorly ye will be poorly.

He also said to the people if his church unless ye go back to your first fruit and repent I will remove your candlestick.


What does it mean to have your candle stick removed, does that mean to be handed over to a reprobate mind for punishment until ye repent.

Obviously being punished with such a thing would be sickness to.

So in one sense if ye follow the lord you do stay healthy but in other ways if ye don't follow the lord ye become unhealthy.


Like if ye don't wash your feet, ye could get athletes foot. Or infection

NO! there was never a time where all christians were totally healthy & there never will be a time on earth. not proper to claim it. certainly in america, way more people should be healthier. americans hold the current record for being the laziest, most obese, the weakest intelligence in the school system, the least disciplined & for complaining the most.

thatzphunnneee!

I would only be guessing here.
But from your answer, you have never been to the States of Kansas, Oklahoma, and Texas and witnessed the kinds of people who live there where this doctrine has made Copeland almost a billionaire.

Now that I think about it, maybe it's from all the crude oil seeping into their drinking water