Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR

Even if we go by canst is can verse 23 still shows the father has no faith and why Jesus rebukes him.

Greetings, siblings all…. May I break in?

Let’s discuss John 17 where Jesus prays for His disciples. I’ll go ahead and post the whole chapter so that we can hear Jesus’ beautiful prayer to His Father.

John 17:
Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: "Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You, "as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him. "And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. "I have glorified You on the earth. I have finished the work which You have given Me to do. "And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was. "I have manifested Your name to the men whom You have given Me out of the world. They were Yours, You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word. "Now they have known that all things which You have given Me are from You. "For I have given to them the words which You have given Me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came forth from You; and they have believed that You sent Me. "I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours. "And all Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine, and I am glorified in them. "Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are. "While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled. "But now I come to You, and these things I speak in the world, that they may have My joy fulfilled in themselves. "I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. "I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one. "They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. "Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth. "As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world. "And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they also may be sanctified by the truth. "I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word; "that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me. "And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one: "I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me. "Father, I desire that they also whom You gave Me may be with Me where I am, that they may behold My glory which You have given Me; for You loved Me before the foundation of the world. "O righteous Father! The world has not known You, but I have known You; and these have known that You sent Me. "And I have declared to them Your name, and will declare it, that the love with which You loved Me may be in them, and I in them."

The way I‘m understanding it, the Elect did not have to go through this earth age; they had already attained salvation; They were justified when God chose them before the foundation of the world. So the Elect came here as first fruits. They came on a mission from God—to spread the Gospel to the non-Elect so that they might be saved, too: Jesus prayed, "I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word.” The “their” are the Elect. —selah

And you also believe God decided that most people are not elect so He assigned them to spend eternity in hell before they were ever born?

If you are going to be a calvinist, then you have to adopt this belief which includes the belief that even calvinists won't know if they are "elect" until they die and many of the "elect" just thought they were elect but in the end they were assigned to hell by God with the non-elect.

None of this of course is biblical but you must believe all this garbage in order to be a calvinist and nbe accepted in to the calvinist cult by the other calvinist cultists

I’m having a l
Hi, Dusty.

Why can't any professing believer in this life know if they're saved or not? I certainly know what my standing is before God!

Who does not know? John says we can know we have eternal life.

If I wasn't on my phone I would post a panel with the verse...

Calvinists have their own belief system that does not go by the whole counsel we find in God's Word.

I wasn't talking about them! But even so...anyone in any profession can be a heretic or apostate.

Sin of presumption.

You sure are proving that is possible by your position. But I doubt the Scholars and Theologians whom are esteemed are doing as you.

You been told !

You like pretending (playing games) and you like labeling people falsely, don’t you. Why can’t you just be real? Any plans for that?

I know this was written some time back...just over a month in fact, ( I have not been on here much so please excuse the lateness here) but why would someone laugh at the above? see original post for clarification # 17

Does this person reject the fact that salvation is open to whoever accepts Christ? Does this person also not believe that for the sake of all who do accept Christ, the Bible plainly states that they have become the righteousness of God because of Christ?

These are some very dangerous charges to lay at the feet of those who do accept Christ should a person decide that you are not of
'the elected' and therefore not really saved.

But as Paul states:

31What then shall we say in response to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32He who did not spare His own Son but gave Him up for us all, how will He not also, along with Him, freely give us all things? 33Who will bring any charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. 34Who is there to condemn us? For Christ Jesus, who died, and more than that was raised to life, is at the right hand of God—and He is interceding for us. Romans 8

So who is anyone to limit God's salvation? Who is anyone to reject the notion of God desiring that all should be saved?

This is not universal salvation by any means, so kindly let no one interpret my words as such, but God's desire for all to come to salvation, knowing that all will not so come.

Do you see the conflict and the division that Calvinism inserts into something so easy to understand? This is why it is dangerous and frankly, in my view, heretical in its displacement of 'whosoever will', to become 'some are created and destined for hell which God intended they should forever be with the devil in the lake of fire.'

That, is not the God of Abraham nor the God of the disciples nor the God who sent His only Son that whosoever will, may acknowledge, accept and desire salvation through that same Son and live eternally in the company of those who are His.

Here's the verse to which you're alluding:

1 John 5:13
13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.
NIV

The Gr. term rendered "know" in 1John appears 33 times. I think John was trying to drive home a point in his short epistle.

Since you are quoting the Reformed Principles verbatim, I made a decision to start quoting Scholars and Theologians who know and which you are not of their educational level.

Here, just so you know what the scholars say about "Might Be Saved"

used to express the possibility that something will happen although not very likely:

That is what you keep doing by placing this to the Elect, they might be saved although not likely.

You are saying the Elect are not saved!

Your biggest failure is to understand the prepositions of the koine Greek, which you are using the KJV and far from that form of Greek.

You are attempting to define word for word but that is not how JOHN wrote it. Whenever one uses the koine Greek, they will use a multitude of prepositions. And since you choose to lack the understanding concerning this, you will always be INCORRECT.

Everyone has their own personal experience. I believe many, especially those from a Christian family, often do not remember when they became believers. It was at such an early age, and so subtle, that they might even say “I have always been a believer”.
However, when I became a believer, I was sitting in church feeling sorry for myself. Listening to a message that I knew was meant for all around me, but could not have anything to do with me. I was a sinner who had done so many things wrong – that God could never forgive me! Then, the message taught that day, proclaimed that there is no person beyond the reach of God, none so bad that they cannot be forgiven. My heart was changed, I believed and asked for forgiveness.

It was such a profound experience, one that simply could not be ignored! I assure you that I did not merit God's grace in any way. Maybe that is why I lean toward the reformed view of scripture, even though I don't like labels.

Those speaking calvinist talking points are usually calvinists

That's keepin the deal real no matter how you feel




That's exactly what the calvinist are claiming.

Then they claim they are the only ones that are saved and those that disagree with them are not saved.

Yes that's the one, thank you...

Oh who does not know?