Predestination is misunderstood...

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Genez

Genez

Junior Member
#4,061
Oct 12, 2017
2,973
420
83
#4,061
brightfame52 said:
Christ is the Saviour, He does the Saving, The Gospel is Good News to whom Christ has saved.
Click to expand...
He has done all that is needed for the saving of all....

After the Cross was finished? Every man has been saved potentially.
Everyone. Nothing more God needs to do to save anyone.

Only those who believe in Christ enter into what God has secured, even for every person who refuses to believe.
​
​
The saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance. For to this end we toil and strive, ​
because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of ​
those who believe." 1 Timothy 4:9-11​
​
Hitler could never tell the Lord that he is going to the Lake of Fire because it was impossible for God to save him.....

God has cleared the deck for Justice to be done.

No excuses ....
 
Stan_the_Man

Stan_the_Man

Banned
#4,062
Dec 29, 2023
1,327
236
63
#4,062
Genez said:
It does not say that we were simply chosen by Him.
But, specifically, that we were "chosen in Him."

What does "chosen in Him" mean?

Understanding that phrase is the key to understanding predestination.
Click to expand...

It does NOT mean God chose a few and decided He wanted everyone
else to go to hell which is what the false doctrines of calvinism teach.
 
Genez

Genez

Junior Member
#4,063
Oct 12, 2017
2,973
420
83
#4,063
Stan_the_Man said:
It does NOT mean God chose a few and decided He wanted everyone
else to go to hell which is what the false doctrines of calvinism teach.
Click to expand...
Gosh..... you only read 1/4th of what I said and then decided to shoot......

You went off half cocked, sir.

Go try reading all that I said this time, please.
 
B

brightfame52

Well-known member
#4,065
Nov 21, 2020
6,358
563
113
#4,065
Thunderrr-mental said:
Is it there nature that is spiritualy dead or the inner being known as a soul

Because there born spiritualy dead mankind was given a saviour.

Surely it's mankind nature that still has somethy in it that God still loves
Click to expand...
Man by nature is Spiritually dead to God, dead in sin, no spiritual abilities. Therefore our only hope is if God gives us a New Birth.
 
B

brightfame52

Well-known member
#4,067
Nov 21, 2020
6,358
563
113
#4,067
sawdust said:
Yes he is which is why ....

Titus 2:11
For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people.

..... is freely given to all people so they may temporarily be free of their depravity and answer to God of their own free will according to their own true desires just as Adam and Jesus could answer to God from their own desires.
Click to expand...
That scripture shows how Grace saves, its not an offer. Thats a corruption of that verse
 
B

brightfame52

Well-known member
#4,068
Nov 21, 2020
6,358
563
113
#4,068
Genez said:
He has done all that is needed for the saving of all....

After the Cross was finished? Every man has been saved potentially.
Everyone. Nothing more God needs to do to save anyone.

Only those who believe in Christ enter into what God has secured, even for every person who refuses to believe.
​
​
The saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance. For to this end we toil and strive, ​
because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of ​
those who believe." 1 Timothy 4:9-11​
​
Hitler could never tell the Lord that he is going to the Lake of Fire because it was impossible for God to save him.....

God has cleared the deck for Justice to be done.

No excuses ....
Click to expand...
Correction, He has done what was needed to save His People, they are saved by what He did and accomplished. Anything less is a false Gospel
 
B

brightfame52

Well-known member
#4,070
Nov 21, 2020
6,358
563
113
#4,070
John146 said:
Romans 1 debunks this thought.
Click to expand...
No it doesnt, if anything it supports it, after Vs 18 it shows the degradation of man by nature, the little natural light man has by nature of God spirals downward to gross idolatry and all kinds of sinfulness.
 
sawdust

sawdust

Active member
#4,071
Feb 12, 2024
940
194
43
67
Australia
#4,071
brightfame52 said:
That scripture shows how Grace saves, its not an offer. Thats a corruption of that verse
Click to expand...

brightfame52 said:
You cant read, Christ saved His People ! Thats the Good News
Click to expand...
No-one is denying grace saves. What we deny is God chooses who will believe and who will not. He tells us to believe the Good News which is Christ's actions on the Cross and resurrection from the dead. That is the good news, that Christ is alive forever more.

How ironic, when Calvinists constantly like to say we make it all about us and not God, yet here you are making the Good News about your salvation instead of Christ's.
 
sawdust

sawdust

Active member
#4,072
Feb 12, 2024
940
194
43
67
Australia
#4,072
brightfame52 said:
Man by nature is Spiritually dead to God, dead in sin, no spiritual abilities. Therefore our only hope is if God gives us a New Birth.
Click to expand...
If He does that then we are saved. No more is needed. Why can't you comprehend that being spiritually dead is the problem and regeneration is the solution. How can we be regenerated? By believing in the Gospel, the power of God unto salvation. Why are we saved at that point? Because this is what God has promised to do for those believing in him.

God does not save us to save us. You don't preach the Gospel to the saved which, is what you would have us do.
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#4,073
Jan 13, 2016
17,131
3,689
113
#4,073
brightfame52 said:
No it doesnt, if anything it supports it, after Vs 18 it shows the degradation of man by nature, the little natural light man has by nature of God spirals downward to gross idolatry and all kinds of sinfulness.
Click to expand...
Can man know God through nature? I agree, the more man rejects God, the less light is given. But God has given light to every man that comes into the world.
 
Thunderrr-mental

Thunderrr-mental

Banned
#4,074
Dec 18, 2023
6,402
406
83
#4,074
brightfame52 said:
Man by nature is Spiritually dead to God, dead in sin, no spiritual abilities. Therefore our only hope is if God gives us a New Birth.
Click to expand...
are you taking about mans own nature here, what made Adam and eve spiritually alive by nature before the fall then
 
B

brightfame52

Well-known member
#4,075
Nov 21, 2020
6,358
563
113
#4,075
Thunderrr-mental said:
are you taking about mans own nature here, what made Adam and eve spiritually alive by nature before the fall then
Click to expand...
What difference does it make ? Man in Adam died, became dead because of his sin. Rom 5:15

15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

Being dead is a hopeless situation, it takes a miracle of New Birth or New Life now. Why you think Jesus preached you must be born again ? Because man is DEAD, not physically, but spiritually, to God and the things of God
 
Thunderrr-mental

Thunderrr-mental

Banned
#4,076
Dec 18, 2023
6,402
406
83
#4,076
brightfame52 said:
What difference does it make ? Man in Adam died, became dead because of his sin. Rom 5:15

15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

Being dead is a hopeless situation, it takes a miracle of New Birth or New Life now. Why you think Jesus preached you must be born again ? Because man is DEAD, not physically, but spiritually, to God and the things of God
Click to expand...
What difference does it make 🤔


Well if your basing a doctrine based of this principal it needs answering.

Scripture says man died in the paradise of the garden of eden died it must have been they died spiritualy.

So this scripture here that day we where chosen to be holy and blameless before the the foundation of the world


Has to mean we where chosen to be holy and blameless before the fall.

Where your belief says we where chosen to be saved before the fall.

So I want to address this main point first, before all other points.
 
Stan_the_Man

Stan_the_Man

Banned
#4,077
Dec 29, 2023
1,327
236
63
#4,077
Genez said:
Gosh..... you only read 1/4th of what I said and then decided to shoot......

You went off half cocked, sir.

Go try reading all that I said this time, please.
Click to expand...

And it STILL does NOT mean God chose a few and decided He wanted everyone
else to go to hell which is what the false doctrines of calvinism teach.



brightfame52 said:
Man by nature is Spiritually dead to God, dead in sin, no spiritual abilities. Therefore our only hope is if God gives us a New Birth.
Click to expand...

Actually that is not true.

God's Word says all have sinned so we are all responsible for the sin WE have done not considered sinful by the Lord because of the sin of Adam

We were all born in to a world filled with darkness and sin and we all at some point starting sinning ourselves.

That's what the Lord is holding each of us accountable for, not Adam's sin.
 
Genez

Genez

Junior Member
#4,078
Oct 12, 2017
2,973
420
83
#4,078
brightfame52 said:
That scripture shows how Grace saves, its not an offer. Thats a corruption of that verse
Click to expand...

The power of grace shuts up our nasty flesh so the Spirit can get a word in edgewise....

Its our soul that listens when grace is given ... Our flesh has been shut up while the Gospel is given.
If there was no grace to shut up our flesh? No soul could believe and be saved.


But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” ​
Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may ​
rest on me. " 2 Corinthians 12:9​
Learn something!
 
Genez

Genez

Junior Member
#4,079
Oct 12, 2017
2,973
420
83
#4,079
Stan_the_Man said:
And it STILL does NOT mean God chose a few and decided He wanted everyone
else to go to hell which is what the false doctrines of calvinism teach..
Click to expand...
That is still not what I said....

I saw Stan Musial standing at home plate during an all star game in 1964 while sitting on the first base line.
Never will forget it..

I was "predestined" by God to see it. ;) I'm not a Calvinist.
 
Stan_the_Man

Stan_the_Man

Banned
#4,080
Dec 29, 2023
1,327
236
63
#4,080
Genez said:
I saw Stan Musial standing at home plate during an all star game in 1964 while sitting on the first base line.
Never will forget it..

I was "predestined" by God to see it.
Click to expand...

That's just speculation on your part.

Just because something happens does not automatically mean God wanted it to happen.

Some people think when their wife died of cancer at an early age and left them and their children without a wife / mother that God predestined that to happen.

Only calvinists and mooslims would believe that.



Genez said:
That is still not what I said....
Click to expand...

I didn't say you said that.

A lot of people think calvinism is true in error, so that's WHY I posted what I said.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.