Do we know how Yeshua lived his life?

Jesus never taught anybody to follow the old testament law.

He instead taught the gospel of the Kingdom of God.

So when Yeshua said in Mat. 5:17-18 that Law would not pass away, He was really saying it would. Got it. Even though it makes no kind of sense at all.
The thing is, I do have the understanding to know that NO PART of scripture can stand in conflict with any other part of scripture. So let us take a look at what you psted and see if it is in line with mat. 5:17-18 the way we understand it.

Luk 16:16The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

Luk 16:17And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.

As you stopped with this I will work with it for right now. If I miss understand your take on this sorry, though from what you have said to this point does make it seem as though I have it right.
If the Law and the prophets ended with John, then that means they are all fulfilled with nothing left to come. However as we know The tribulation hasn't came about, the War with Gog, and His second coming have not been fulfilled. So we have no reason to think they ever will be. I find that sad, because it also means our salvation is left in limbo, with no hope of ever seeing it come about. You see If Yeshua lied at any point in His teachings then He was not the sacrifice we hope. After all He had to be perfect in every way.


Now if we look at Mat5:17-18 once more, we find that the passages you posted go hand in hand with them.

Mat 5:17¶Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
As we can see clear as day, Yeshua is making it clear He didn't come to remove the law. Oh I know the word fulfil is the word here that matters, sorry that simply isn't true. To fulfi both Yeshua must also fulfill the feast. As it stands He has fulfilled only 4.
Now I understand that not many people on here hold any true understanding of Torah. However, they should look into it. You when Yeshua places the Law and the prophets together, He does with the understanding that both are intertwined. After all there is a lot to be said for prophecy in Torah. The feast as we should know, are prophetic. You see they show us what is to come, the Day of Atonement is a good one. You see we haven't seen the judgment of that day, or seen the White throne as of yet.
What we have seen is that Yeshua became our Passover lamb, fulfilling both Passover and Unleavened bread. On the 3rd day when he was raised, He fulfilled the feast of first fruits. In His His life he fulfilled the feast of Tabernacles. We still have the feast of Trumpets, which will be fulfilled on His second coming, Yum Kipper, and the sabbath for the all of creation.

Getting back on the true topic of this thread, may I ask your understanding of the Prodigal son?
We may not see it the same way, though it seems we can talk openly, and find truth in it.
From my point of view it shows the joy in heaven when a lost soil turns to HaShem, and gives them self over to His will. There is more to it than just that I know, yet to go past this right now I feel would do a disservice to the study.

Have you not read mat. chapters 5-7? Yeshua did teach on the law, and even said,

Mat 19:17And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Mar 10:19 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.

Jhn 15:10If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

Now going to Rev. we find the following. Keep in mind this came after Yeshua ascended.

Rev 12:17And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Rev 14:12Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

So why would Yeshua, being HaShem in the flesh, teach against His own law?

Should we not add that He lived the Spiritual meaning of Torah?

I posted above here a question for you. Sadly I did something wrong so it didn't tag to your name. It's post #183.

“For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth: who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously: who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed. For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭2:21-25‬ ‭

“But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, and be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: that I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; if by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭3

jesus is the example all of his disciples should be pressing g forward following after for sure

Sure. But the only way for that to actually transpire is for Christ to live in us. That means walking in the Spirit. If we could have done it apart from Him, He never would have needed to come. The only way to emulate Jesus is for Him to live in us.

That means walking in the Spirit.

If we could have done it apart from Him, He never would have needed to come.

The only way to emulate Jesus is for Him to live in us…..

What do you actually mean by any of that though ? Those terms have meaning

“….walking in the Spirit. “

“But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.”
‭‭John‬ ‭4:23-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Must worship him in spirit

“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:63‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and in truth

“Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.”
‭‭John‬ ‭18:37‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Even just this part here

“If ye love me, keep my commandments.

And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

…Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.”
‭‭John‬ ‭14:15-21, 23-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Do you see how the language on the epistles “ walk in the spirit “ walking in the truth “ “ walking in faith “ is all coming from the language Jesus taught them “the words in teachings you are spirit …I came to witness the truth to the world ….you just worship god in spirit and truth ….?

hes actually teaching then what those phrases mean “to walk in the spirit “ should be understood through the things Jesus taught in the gospel that’s where it’s coming from do you see how Jesus is actually saying this

“If ye love me, keep my commandments.

And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; even the Spirit of truth;”

“He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me:and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. “

“Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words:…and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. “

He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

But later some try to remove the part he said to do ? And we say we’re saved by grace not works …..

my position is always that we should hear what the lord said about everything and then hear what his apostles wrote afterwards because thier writng about what he taught them in the gospel even Paul

Just a short example

“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
“Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:31-32, 34, 36‬ ‭

Paul is speaking to people who have heard the gospel of our lord

“What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:15-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

when the epistles are written the gospels are pre requisite knowledge the people they were sent to were taught the gospel for years before the epistles were written

“if so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus: that ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; and be renewed in the spirit of your mind; and that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another. Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath: neither give place to the devil. Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth. Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers. And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice: and be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:21-32‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Note in Paul’s letters he always talks about repentance and obedience thoroughly more than anyone else in the nt letters actually jesus is meant to be an example for us disciples ( Christian’s )

We should always be learning from him and striving to be more like him in this life now he’s our Lord and offers life

“For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works. These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.”
‭‭Titus‬ ‭2:11-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The things in scripture Will teach us if we try to pick and choose what we o my want to hear and tell everyone we’re “ rightly dividing the word “ it wont work jesus told everyone the truth all we have to do is believe what he said and follow him trusting in his atonement and also his words

What I'm saying is trying to keep the commandments in our own effort may produce the same behavior as Jesus outwardly, but it will not come from the motivation of a pure heart. There will be some measure of sin within our motivation. While Jesus words can teach us the proper manner to live, they don't produce within us the same purity that motivated His heart. This change comes to us as we spend real time in His presence. In this estate, we are changed into His likeness. The fruit of the Spirit will be evidenced through us.
Most people cannot even explain properly what it is to walk in the Spirit, let alone actually be under the yoke of Jesus. You have only to read the responses of posters one to another to see that they aren't full of love or peace or joy. I don't witness gentleness or goodness or longsuffering in discussions. How often do you witness meekness and temperance in the threads?
There is far more to Christ-likeness than trying to copy Jesus. There is real time in His presence wherein the life of Christ is imparted to an individual. When this happens, you will see the evidence of it. People will be patient, and kind, and suffer long with others. They will prefer others before themselves. And they won't have to stop and ask themselves...what would Jesus do? He will already be doing it in them.

Matthew 5:17-19
"17 “Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. 18 For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

Matthew 23:23
“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cummin, and have neglected the weightier provisions of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness; but these are the things you should have done without neglecting the others."

Absolutely. That's what I meant when I said a "greather and deeper understanding of Torah."

In english He is known as Jesus.

You are confusing the old testament law with the Law of Christ which is taught in the New Testament.

Those trying to earn their salvation by following the old testament law in the end will not be saved.



Jesus specifically tells us the law id not longer being preached:

Luke 16:16
The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.



Jesus specifically tells us the law id not longer being preached:

Luke 16:16
The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

So which Jesus should we believe? The one who says the Law should be taught until heaven and earth pass away? Or your version of Luke 16:16?

Other versions of that verse say that the Law and Prophets were proclaimed until John. And keep in mind, Jesus was saying to the Pharisees who were trying to justify themselves by the Law.

Jesus never said the OT law was to be taught and He did not lead the New Testament writers to teach the law either.
You did notice the New Testament does not teach the OT law right?

Hebrews 7:12
For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

Hebrews 10:9
Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

In the New Testament... there is a new priesthood where Jesus is our High Priest instead of Moses and as such we are no longer under the law of Moses, but now we are under the Law of Christ.

In the New Testament, many mentions of “the law” is actually referring to Law of Christ (aka the Law of Liberty) and is not talking about the old testament law. Christians are NOT called to keep or live under the old testament law, but we ARE called to live under the Law of Christ.

Ultimately this means we are called to abide In Christ which is living after the Spirit and not after the flesh, or to be spiritually minded and not carnally minded (see Romans 8). As we see in Romans 8, to be spiritually minded is life and peace but to be carnally minded is death which is separation from the Lord.

God’s people are no longer living under the Law of Moses. Now God’s people are living under the Law of Christ (also called the law of liberty, law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus – see Galatians 6:2, 1 Corinthians 9:21, James 2:12, James 1:25, Romans 8:2)

Galatians 5:4
Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

You have to decide is you want to live under the old covenant law, or live IN Christ under the New Covenant.





That's correct, and then Jesus says after that the Gospel of the Kingdom of God is preached, not the OT law.

Have you never read

Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Then it's a good thing I keep the law because I am saved. It would be a bit embarrassing to try to tell HaShem I know His Word better than He does.
Yet He showed us in both His words and actions that it is valid.
So give me a yes or no answer to the following 10 things.
Is it a sin to worship other gods?
Is it a sin to dishonor your parents?
Is it a sin to lie?
Is it a sin to covet your neighbor's wife?
Is it a sin a homosexual life?
Is it a sin to bare faults witness?
Is it a sin to commit murder?
Is it a sin to steal?
Is it a sin to forget His sabbath?
Is it a sin to bow down to graven images?
A simple yes or no please.

Is it sad or just an admission that my last post goes unanswered? Then it goes with everyone that teaches the law is nailed to the cross, when faced with giving an honest answer that shows they do understand the Law is still in effect. After all if one understands sin is real, then by the Biblical definition of sin, the law must be in effect. You see the Word is clear of what sin is, and that if there is no law, then there is no sin.
Then again as it always seems to go, once they see they losing the debate, and turn to the argument over to the use of Yeshua, rather than Jesus, it is clear they are done. At any rate we can get to the true topic, the life, teachings, and faith of Yeshua. Don't get me wrong, I know that His teachings on the Law have been covered to a point, and we can see clearly that He never said the law was removed. So lets look at some other teachings from our King.
In our mind the best thing to do now is see if we can find out just who Yeshua is. To start we know that Yeshua is Jewish by birth.

Mat 1:1This is a record of the ancestors of Jesus the Messiah, a descendant of David and of Abraham: With out going into the linage, anyone that understands even a little bit, knows that for Yeshua to be our king, He had to be from the line of David. We know this from the prophecy given by Jakob.

Gen 49:10The scepter will not depart from Judah,
nor the ruler’s staff from his descendants,
until the coming of the one to whom it belongs,
the one whom all nations will honor.

This is one of the things almost every church teaches. After all if Yeshua was not from this line, then by HaShem's own law, He can not be in line to rule, and is also not the sacrifice we place our hope in. Yet one must now ask, is Yeshua in the bloodline of Aaron? After all we are given some info on this in Torah as well.

Exo 30:21They must always wash their hands and feet, or they will die. This is a permanent law for Aaron and his descendants, to be observed from generation to generation.”

So how does this work? Can HaShem violate His own Law and still be seen as just? In our minds we say Nope, not even a little bit. Yet we find nothing to say Yeshua was from the line of Aaron, or do we? Please keep in mind this is a question we have debated for close to 5 years now. Though we seem to agree on the things that follow.

Luk 1:5When Herod was king of Judea, there was a Jewish priest named Zechariah. He was a member of the priestly order of Abijah, and his wife, Elizabeth, was also from the priestly line of Aaron.

Luk 1:36What's more, your relative Elizabeth has become pregnant in her old age! People used to say she was barren, but she has conceived a son and is now in her sixth month.

Knowing that Marry and Elizabeth are cousins, and that Elizabeth is from the line of Aaron, it stands to reason that Marry must be as well. The debate is over that topic. As we know it is not a good idea to say the Bible said, when it only hints at something. After all, it may well be that Marry is from the other side of the family, and holds no linage with Aaron. Yet at the same time we are faced with the fact that Yeshua must be in line of Aaron, or HaShem has violated His own law. Now I stand on the foundation that HaShem must follow His own Laws. If He doesn't then we make Him a liar, and soon find we are placing our salvation in the hands of one that doesn't have the right to offer it.

As we move to John chapter 5 we find that it opens with,

Jhn 5:1¶After this there was a feast of the Jews; and Jesus went up to Jerusalem.

There is some understanding that this feast was the feast of Sukkot. Some say it was made clear by the wording of this passage. If one takes the time to study the feast, they learn a lot about the things Yeshua has, and still has to fulfill. I do wish to make it clear that if one keeps the feast with the right intent, they are not looking to the feast, laws, or their own works to gain salvation. You see they already know that this is never going to work. Why? Because they have studied the Word, and know the truth. So it does little good to try and belittle them, as they will keep on walking in THE WAY.

Jhn 5:7¶The impotent man answered him, Sir, I have no man, when the water is troubled, to put me into the pool: but while I am coming, another steppeth down before me.

I have seen some twist this passage to try and say that faith held no part in Jewish faith. Their thinking goes something like this. It doesn't take faith to heal ones self, and the act of following the ways of the unsaved is pointless.
Now I will agree with that last part. To follow the ways of anyone that knows not Yeshua, His teachings, or His life is a lost cause. However to think that the Jewish follow the idea of salvation by works is wrong as we see in time.

Jhn 5:8¶Jesus saith unto him, Rise, take up thy bed, and walk.

Now for those that know the story well, we know that this on a sabbath. That it lead to,

Jhn 5:16¶And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day.

Jhn 5:17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.

Now I have had many try to trip me up in my understanding by the use of passages like this. The idea that doing a good thing on Sabbath isn't new. You see, there are some jobs that must be done even on Sabbath. Like medical, fire and police departments, Hotels, and this list can get longer. You see it would wrong to kick people out of a hotel just to keep the sabbath. In doing so, you place them in the street, with no place to sleep besides their car. Although in some cases, they may not have that.
Some would say that HaShem never works on Sabbath, they would be wrong. If it rains on Sabbath, who do they think brought the rain? Or if a person is sitting in church, and HaShem calls them, is He not doing what is right? Again this can go on for some time, so I think we should move on.

Jhn 5:23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

Here is a passage that seems to always make people think. How can we show honor to one, and not the other? In truth we can't. You see, one can't believe in Yeshua, and not HaShem, just as one can't believe in HaShem without seeing the truth of Yeshua. They are one, and follow the same laws, and prophets. If either didn't follow the teachings of the Word, then we would have a big problem.

Jhn 5:24¶Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

I know that some people will think I am speaking of them, when in truth I am speaking of truth, not any one person. Still it doesn't change the facts as put before us in the word. You see this passage is clear that one must believe in HaShem as well as Yeshua to be granted salvation. Then hay, knowing they are one in the same, makes that easy.

Jhn 5:44 How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?
Jhn 5:45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.

Jhn 5:46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.

Jhn 5:47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?


Now the above is why I do study Torah. You see I find it sad that I once thought, "we don't need that it was nailed to the cross and left there." In that time I spent more time looking to Paul to save me from that mean old law I didn't want to follow. Then as I said many times, A good women came into my life, she opened my eyes to THE TRUTH. I say the truth to set it apart from the churches truth.
You see, once I was forced to look at THE TRUTH, I found that the church wasn't teaching truth. rather they were teaching their own idea of truth. Much like the leaders of Yeshua's time did.
This would be a lot more meaning full if others would chime in with facts rather than hopes. Then do I dare open the door to endless debate on a topic that has no end?

Until the Jewish age of 30 years (29 years by our reckoning) Jesus made it his aim to live a quiet life and mind his own business, as we are also instructed to do. He shunned the lime-light.

King James Bible 1 Thess. 4:11
And that ye study to be quiet, and to do your own business, and to work with your own hands, as we commanded you;